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Need help on what to do if anything

gib

gib

Active Member
I purchased a HS and the workmanship looked pretty good except the builder mess up a rivet and replaced it with a bolt on the HS rear spar. see below

P1060284.jpg

P1060285.jpg

Is this a problem?
You can see that it hold the HS-412PP Hinge brkt on.
 
The workmanship is very good comparing to mine :) Bolts add couple grams of weight only I would call it acceptable to replace busted rivets.
 
The workmanship looks excellent as long as the bolts are torqued properly, but run it by Van's. I doubt they would object, but it's always good to get their view.
 
There doesn't appear to be a washer under the nut. I'd put one there, ensurig proper thread protusion beyond the nut. But wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about a properly-torqued AN bolt and nut in that location.
 
krw5927 said:
There doesn't appear to be a washer under the nut. I'd put one there, ensurig proper thread protusion beyond the nut. But wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about a properly-torqued AN bolt and nut in that location.
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There is a washer there; it?s hard to see in the picture. I didn't think it was going to be to big a problem but I thought it would be good to have another opinion. Thanks.
 
I fluffed* an aileron bracket rivet and needed to whack a bolt in to cover. No big deal. It may not look the best, but it'll work just fine. Kinda what the KRviatrix says about me, come to think about it...

*technical term
 
gib said:
I purchased a HS and the workmanship looked pretty good except the builder mess up a rivet and replaced it with a bolt on the HS rear spar. see below
Click to expand...

I'd take those bolts out and inspect the holes. I'd also be a bit concerned about how you get to see if the nuts are rotating loose inside the HS where they will be impossible to inspect in practical terms. And if they do back off in service you will not be able to gain access to retorque them.

It's an unfortunate detail in my opinion.
 
The overall quality of workmanship on the assembly appears excellent. I see no gaps between sheets, the rivet shop heads are set consistently and I observe no smilies occurring at or on any of the rivet manufactured heads. All these things suggest the builder was thoughtful and strove to produce a high quality airframe. You have every reason to believe the bolts are installed correctly too. In fact, I am heartened the builder repaired the "non-conformance" as well as he did. You can be sure other less thoughtful builders would have gone ahead and shot solid rivets into poorly prepared holes in keeping with that famous "Build on!" attitude. As an example, recently Van's suggested a builder actually install blind rivets into an elevator hinge bracket, a repair fix I consider dicey in this particular application because too many things can go wrong if the fasteners are installed incorrectly and that is all too easy to do for a brand new builder who doesn't have the experience, training or tools needed to correctly install structural blind rivets.

In your case, the bolt heads appear to lay flat (suggesting straight holes) and the thread protrusion is quite acceptable. Because the builder has demonstrated above average sheet metal skills, I would consider those bolts a worthy repair, no more than an additional detail to examine at condition inspection time and just leave it go at that.
 
Clearance?

Is there adequate clearance between the leading edge of the elevator and the bolt head?

Because the leading edge of the elevator is a lap joint, without adequate clearance it might be possible for the bolt to snag the elevator leading edge joint and prevent elevator movement.
 
Rick6a said:
The overall quality of workmanship on the assembly appears excellent. I see no gaps between sheets, the rivet shop heads are set consistently and I observe no smilies occurring at or on any of the rivet manufactured heads. All these things suggest the builder was thoughtful and strove to produce a high quality airframe. You have every reason to believe the bolts are installed correctly too. In fact, I am heartened the builder repaired the "non-conformance" as well as he did. You can be sure other less thoughtful builders would have gone ahead and shot solid rivets into poorly prepared holes in keeping with that famous "Build on!" attitude. As an example, recently Van's suggested a builder actually install blind rivets into an elevator hinge bracket, a repair fix I consider dicey in this particular application because too many things can go wrong if the fasteners are installed incorrectly and that is all too easy to do for a brand new builder who doesn't have the experience, training or tools needed to correctly install structural blind rivets.

In your case, the bolt heads appear to lay flat (suggesting straight holes) and the thread protrusion is quite acceptable. Because the builder has demonstrated above average sheet metal skills, I would consider those bolts a worthy repair, no more than an additional detail to examine at condition inspection time and just leave it go at that.
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The builder did an excellent job. I was able to also look at his other in progress build (kitfox). He was also doing an excellent job on it. That was one of the reasons I went ahead and purchased this empennage despite the bolt repair. I was able to get a wrench on the nut (I had to make one) and checked the torque. It was right were it should be for that size bolt. My concern is if the bolt were to back out it could jam the elevator.
 
DaAV8R said:
Is there adequate clearance between the leading edge of the elevator and the bolt head?

Because the leading edge of the elevator is a lap joint, without adequate clearance it might be possible for the bolt to snag the elevator leading edge joint and prevent elevator movement.
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They elevator skin opening at the Rod End Bearing were it attaches to the HS is as wide as they attachment brkt. So even if the bolt stuck out to far, witch it doesn’t, it would clear the elevator skin.

P1060286.jpg



BTW all the little specs is sawdust. I have been building benches in the shop.
 
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Put torque seal on the bolt head. If the nut loosens and the bolt begins to back out, you will see the torque seal break. Make it part of your pre-flight. Frankly, I don't expect you'll see those nuts ever move. I'd also verify the pop-rivets used in the structure with the builder. I'd expect they are just fine but they are replacing AN470AD rivets so it wouldn't hurt to be sure.
 
Pop Rivets

I'd also verify the pop-rivets used in the structure with the builder. I'd expect they are just fine but they are replacing AN470AD rivets so it wouldn't hurt to be sure.
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Those pop rivets are per the plans. They nail the HS-708 to the Rear Spar and Doublers after the spar is riveted on to the skin. They are(should be) BSPQ-5-4's. You can see the rib/spar interface in the inside shot where these are located.
 
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Captain Avgas said:
I'd take those bolts out and inspect the holes. I'd also be a bit concerned about how you get to see if the nuts are rotating loose inside the HS where they will be impossible to inspect in practical terms. And if they do back off in service you will not be able to gain access to retorque them.

It's an unfortunate detail in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Aircraft Spruce has self locking Castle nuts if you are concerned about them backing off .

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/MS17825.php
 
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