What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Trim Cable Attachment Bracket Rivets

J

jwilbur

Well Known Member
I was just about to rivet my trim cable attachment brackets to their associated cover plates and realized I didn't have any more of the LP4-3 pop rivets called for in the plans. Then I realized that I'm using the billet aluminum brackets and could think of no reason why not to use solid rivets. Then I started wondering why pop rivets were called for at all. Then I realized just how many things I don't know. And it's pretty late so I put everything down, shut off the lights and decided to ask if anyone knew of any reason why solid rivets should NOT be used here? And out of curiosity, why are pop rivets called for in the plans to begin with?

For reference:
8y6yhl.jpg
 
Good questions

All good thoughts and questions Joe. I followed the plans not fully appreciating the reasons behind blind rivets. I knew some guys were using screws...but didn't full appreciate the reason until the "empennage attach" section of the plans. There comes a point in that section that you are asked to twist the cover plate/trim bracket (which you've already riveted by this time in the plans) onto the already installed cable which is now a small rigid installed cable barely protruding from the skin. You then quickly find out that it's essentially impossible to twist the cover plate around the cable without running into the bottom elevator skin. So, the solution was to drill out the 4 rivets, screw on the trim cable bracket onto the cable, and then BLIND rivet the bracket to the access cover. Screws can also work...but 426 rivets won't since you won't be able to get a bucking bar inside. All this is from my experience only...
 
Good idea to wait?

I'm glad I asked. Would it then be prudent to NOT rivet the bracket/cover plate assembly at this point? That's what it sounds like from your comment. Any other recommendations on this?
 
David nailed it.

There is no room to install the cover plate and bracket together.

I used screws on mine, works just fine so far.
 
rivets

I would use the rivets like the plans call for. Once you pull the rivet, it is there for keeps. You don't have to worry about a screw or nut getting loose. Just do whatever you think is best for your situation. I used the blind rivets. They are also easier to drill out if you ever need to remove the cover plate, etc.
 
Screws and 365 locknuts. They won't get loose. They are removeable. They look good. Why not?
 
You are going to have those cover plates on and off numerous times getting the trim tabs adjusted, painting, and doing condition inspections. Save yourself some effort by using machine screws and self-locking PEM nuts (Google PEM nut). They work like nut plates without the plate. They can be permanently attach to the billet anchor brackets with your rivet squeezer. Much easier than fooling with AN365 nuts in a confined space.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
N15JB said:
You are going to have those cover plates on and off numerous times getting the trim tabs adjusted, painting, and doing condition inspections. Save yourself some effort by using machine screws and self-locking PEM nuts (Google PEM nut). They work like nut plates without the plate. They can be permanently attach to the billet anchor brackets with your rivet squeezer. Much easier than fooling with AN365 nuts in a confined space.

Jim Berry
RV-10
Click to expand...

Thank you for the tip. This seems like a very good solution. I'm on the PennEngineering web site and seeing many different types of PEM nuts. Can you recommend which is the right one for this job?
 
? ?

Joe,

If you check Vans site you'll find that there are almost 350 RV10's up and flying. You've received 4 or 5 replies saying to use screws/nuts/pops instead of AN rivets and one saying that 'there is no room' to put the plate on with the bracket riveted in place. I don't know for sure....but I'd guess that 'many' of the (almost) 350 that are up and flying were able to simply follow the plans. I'd venture to say that many/most of the builders of the completed 10's aren't on this site and (obviously) have not given their advise/opinion, not to mention the builders that haven't flown yet.

For what it's worth, I've built 3 RV10's plus I'll toss in an extra emp/tailcone. All 4 times I followed the plans in this area and had NO trouble putting the plates on the elevators with the bracket in place......and no scratches on the paint during the final assy. I've also removed them and reinstalled them with paint. Also, IMO there is no need to use anything but the kit supplied parts to retain the cable.

Nothing wrong with the suggested alternatives....I suppose either way is fine so do what works best for you as long as you know it's safe.

Have fun!
 
Last edited:
Follow plans

I second Rick's advice.
No need to over think this little problem.
I have used solid rivets to install the after market brackets and they have been on and off twice waiting for final installment.
Threading them on is a bit of a pain but certainly doable and I don't see any need to undo everything for an annual inspection.
To sum it up, you probably have to thread them on and off a couple of times and that's it.
Do as you wish.
 
Rv7 setup

On the rv 7 which uses the same setup the bracket is held with solid rivets.
So I can't see a problem. Just a little more difficult to do.

Peter
 
Thanks

Thanks everybody. I appreciate all the comments and advice.

The plans actually call for blind rivets here. Part of my original question was why would the plans call for blind rivets, but have me put them in now at a stage where I could easily squeeze solid rivets? Doesn't seem to make sense. I still don't know the answer to this, but I do think I have a reasonable strategy thanks to all of you and at least know what to expect.
 
All valid comments. If you want to use PEM nuts, the number is their LK-632-2MD.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
Rick....

Rick, Please reference my earlier post and then explain how you "followed the plans" (the same as I did) and then successfully screwed on the cover plate/bracket onto the trim cable. My suspicion is that you release the trim cable attachment at the trim servo bell crank. If so, why wouldn't you give Joe the advice to delay riveting for now and then when it's time to make the cable attachment to the cover plate/bracket, have him follow the plans and then add the blind rivets? This method saves headaches AND follows the plans. Based on your building history, it sounds like you may have a better way...and I'm curious to hear it since it was physically IMPOSSIBLE to screw on my cover plate/bracket as one piece while leaving the cable attached to the servo/bellcrank. While I respect Vans plans and rarely deviate, altering a sequence of events for builder ease is using your brains, not your brawn :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top