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(Mis)Identification of platenuts

WingedFrog

WingedFrog

Well Known Member
Mis-identifying nutplates can lead to painful mistakes - don't ask me how I know - With a bruised ego it would be easy to turn against VANs who put three different nutplate types in the same paper bag, therefore saving a few cents but I readily admit my mistake (which is also documented in my blog, thereby helping to keep my ego in check:D). My question to the battle scared veteran builders: how do you identify a nutplate (i.e. like K1000-3)? I looked into the book/bible provided by VANs and could not find a clear nomenclature for nutplates and there designation.
 
The correct screw size is pretty easy to figure out. The biggest challenge is the difference between a regular nutplate: K1000; and one designed for countersunk screws: K1100
Joe
 
Try Em First

Also its not a bad idea to try the appropriate bolt/screw in a nutplate before you rivet it in. Some nutplates (very few) are just klunkers. Would solve your ID problem as well.

Pete
 
That is what I have taken to doing, go find the bolt that screws in to it, and the size becomes apparent.
I got bit also by a clunker of a nutplate, you cannot check them too carefully before installation.
 
WingedFrog said:
Mis-identifying nutplates can lead to painful mistakes - don't ask me how I know - With a bruised ego it would be easy to turn against VANs who put three different nutplate types in the same paper bag, therefore saving a few cents but I readily admit my mistake (which is also documented in my blog, thereby helping to keep my ego in check:D). My question to the battle scared veteran builders: how do you identify a nutplate (i.e. like K1000-3)? I looked into the book/bible provided by VANs and could not find a clear nomenclature for nutplates and there designation.
Click to expand...

I made the exact same mistake, it is must a better than random chance that when you reach in the bag that you pull out 2 the same nut plates. I found out when I went to look for the nutplates that go on the bottom of the VS1202 front spar. it referred me to the same paper bag. Then I saw the different nutplates and saw that the ones I put on where not the same as in the drawings. I made me even more aware of really reviewing the instructions well

PMK
 
It is sad to see this problem continue to happen as we have been over it many times on this list.

It is very simple to use the several plastic boxes with about 24 bins each, they all work, you can use the cheap ones from Harbor Freight at about $5 or some of the nicer ones from Lowe's or Home Depot but the key is to do as Van's tells us and inventory each bag and while we do that put each item in its bin with a label as to exactly what it is so that when the plans say to get a K1000-3 you do not need to be able to pick them out of a mixed bag of plate-nuts. You read the label and use the correct part. When you count the parts as you sort the bag it is simple to correctly identify the item as you will have 6 of one and 20 of the next.

This organization can be done many ways, I used pill bottles for the first tail kit and it worked just fine, then I could see that the multi bin plastic boxes worked better, but the important thing is organization of the parts so that you can pick parts by their nomenclature from a bin that only has that specific part in it and the bins are organized in such a way that even if you do not know exactly what the part looks like you can go to the correct bin and get the right part.

The above saves a great deal of time in just getting the part called out on the drawing, not to mention the re-work required to replace a plate-nut that is the wrong size in an area that you can no longer get to.

Organize your parts in a way that works for you, it will save you a lot of time and money in the end.

Best regards,
Vern
 
Bag method wastes time

The Bag method of inventory wastes time and causes mistakes. When you first get the kit, it is easy to tell which part is which by the quantity of each item inside of a bag. But as you use parts, the quantity changes. Then it is more difficult to tell the difference between similar parts. The time spent putting parts into individual containers with labels will be made up many times over during the course of the project. Much time will be saved by not having to look for parts; and mistakes will be minimized when parts are in individual organized containers. If you make a computer spreadsheet containing all of the parts and their location, the desired part can be easily found.
Here is a suggestion for Van's to make money and to make the project easier to build and thus make customers happy, all leading to more kits sales.
Sell hardware storage cabinets along with pre-printed labels for each drawer. The customer can attach the labels to the drawers as he removes the hardware from each bag and places it into cabinets. A spreadsheet file down-loadable from Van's website could be printed out or searched with a computer.
Joe
 
Eyeball the threads...

Once you know what platenuts are what, always eyeball the threads prior to installation... I've had a few that didn't have any.

200706191702_43_0_m.jpg
 
Mike S said:
GAHCO has a fantastic amount of information on their site, I have printed off a lot of their tables and such.

Here is the Plate Nut spec sheet, print it up, and put on the wall in the shop.

http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nutplates.pdf

As to the size, like was previously mentioned, trying a screw in it is the definitive answer.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this is useful data and it would help better if VANs was using the MS21XXX part number nomenclature. Is there a document somewhere matching the K1000 part numbers from VANs to the ANSI parts used by your chart?
 
vernhendershott said:
It is sad to see this problem continue to happen as we have been over it many times on this list.
Vern
Click to expand...

The issue, Vern, is not organizational. As I explained here, when inventorying the bag, I made an "(un)educated" guess and I lost. The basic issue is that VANs is mixing parts in their bag and then you have to sort out which is what. If we had a good description of the parts like the one given by Mike Starkey above, the identification would be easier. At minimum VANs should provide the correspondance between their part numbers and the MS21XXX which I believe are the ANSI standard nomenclature. They do that for other parts, why don't they do it for the nutplates?
 
IF there are different quanties, one can figure it out. But when you have a paper sack with 12 each of three different nomenclature nutplates, and they have no numbers on them, one has to go to something else to figure out which are which. I use the plastic box with ID and it works wonderfully.
 
WingedFrog said:
Thanks, this is useful data and it would help better if VANs was using the MS21XXX part number nomenclature. Is there a document somewhere matching the K1000 part numbers from VANs to the ANSI parts used by your chart?
Click to expand...

I am not sure, but I suspect that the book from GAHCO has the conversion info in it. It does have conversion info for other items, but I have never looked up plate nuts.

Hopefully Tom will jump in here, he is the owner, and a RV6 builder.
 
vernhendershott said:
It is sad to see this problem continue to happen as we have been over it many times on this list.

It is very simple to use the several plastic boxes with about 24 bins each, they all work, you can use the cheap ones from Harbor Freight at about $5 or some of the nicer ones from Lowe's or Home Depot but the key is to do as Van's tells us and inventory each bag and while we do that put each item in its bin with a label as to exactly what it is so that when the plans say to get a K1000-3 you do not need to be able to pick them out of a mixed bag of plate-nuts. You read the label and use the correct part. When you count the parts as you sort the bag it is simple to correctly identify the item as you will have 6 of one and 20 of the next.

This organization can be done many ways, I used pill bottles for the first tail kit and it worked just fine, then I could see that the multi bin plastic boxes worked better, but the important thing is organization of the parts so that you can pick parts by their nomenclature from a bin that only has that specific part in it and the bins are organized in such a way that even if you do not know exactly what the part looks like you can go to the correct bin and get the right part.

The above saves a great deal of time in just getting the part called out on the drawing, not to mention the re-work required to replace a plate-nut that is the wrong size in an area that you can no longer get to.

Organize your parts in a way that works for you, it will save you a lot of time and money in the end.

Best regards,
Vern
Click to expand...

I had the parts in their bag in numbered bins, after this occurrence I emptied the contents of each paper bag in the bin so that it would not happen anymore. I can see all the parts that are in each bag
 
Go to the webstore!

Mike S said:
I am not sure, but I suspect that the book from GAHCO has the conversion info in it. It does have conversion info for other items, but I have never looked up plate nuts.

Hopefully Tom will jump in here, he is the owner, and a RV6 builder.
Click to expand...

If you are new to our Webstore I highly suggest you read our website tips.
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/site_tips.asp Our site offers so much that anyone that is not familiar with it will be greatly aided by these tips'

when you go to the webstore and search for the K# using search our items, if we have that number in the system you will be able to click on your search results and it will take you where the alternate #'s are.
There may be several results that come up. If your original item is in the mix you will be able to get the MSxxxxx.. item and it says Typically Stocked then it is something we carry and have crosses too. (most of the time)

When I get off lunch I will check the major usage nut plates and make it so wherever necessary.
 
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Vern and Joe are right on! It's imperative to seperate the parts when you inventory them. Even though I did that, I still managed to confuse a few 1000-3's with 1000-8's. The darn "3" and "8" look a lot a like. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it.):eek:

Anyway, I have another suggestion to minimize that problem. Wherever there is a page that specifies both 3's and 8's, take out your handy dandy highlighter pens (you DO have multiple colors, right?) and mark the different types with different colors, and highlight the labels on the parts drawers with matching colors. After I did that, I had no more screw-ups.:D
 
Looks like we cross whatever Vans is using....

Mike S said:
And that friends, is what is known as customer service!!:D
Click to expand...

In reference to my post#15

Looks like we cross whatever Vans is using with the K numbers and more.

If your on our site and see one we don't have:eek: and it is commonly used please let me know!:)

These also helps organize your small stuff, very tough boxes that you can see what is in them and label them if you want. Any of you that have ordered our assortment kits knows what I mean:cool:

http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/flambeau.pdf
 
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Bit in the Butt - Again!

Despite all the checking and double checking, I just got bit by the nutplate **** again. Started to install the vertical stabilizer, and the bolts did not fit. Drilled them out and started to install the "correct" one, and happened to notice, IT was wrong also. Seems like I got them mixed up when trying to box them, apparently the old "8" and "3" switch again, seems to be a classic blunder. Between a nutplate having three different numbers, and absolutely no ID on the nutplate, this has been the biggest single problem for me. I have the "Mechanics Toolbox" software, a big ol Aircraft Spruce catalog, and the GAH chart. NONE of them actually tell you what you needll! Why the heck cannot they make them in different colors or something. :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Got an early start, Don!

Wait until you are in the middle of the fuselage: this is nutplate paradise!:eek::eek::eek:
(I ment nutplate h e l l but was censored by the server :mad:)
 
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