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  #1  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:06 PM
JVolkober JVolkober is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 130
Question IFR Panel Options - Need Input

I am looking for comments from those of you who have IFR experience. I have been muddling over what I will include in my panel.

I am building a panel for my RV-9A around the Skyview system.. I want to have a plane that I can use to obtain an IFR rating and use for IFR work in future years. My original plan was to limit avionics to day/night VFR with the possibility to expand to IFR. Under this scenario the panel would include the Skyview system consisting of a SV-1000 display and SV-700 display with one ADAHRS, GPS, Mode S transponder, AP and engine monitor supported by an SL-30 and intercom leaving an upgrade to an IFR panel for later. Later, I would modify the radio stack removing the intercom and replacing with an audio panel (PMA5000EX), possibly swapping the SL-30 for an SL-40 (saving some $) and adding a GNS-430W. Now I am considering going directly to the final design.

Some questions I have are: Do I need everything I have included to for IFR? Have I missed anything? Is there an alternative approach using the Skyview system that could reduce the cost (I am going over planned budget with the additional equipment)?

Your comments would be appreciated.

John
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2011, 04:56 PM
dlloyd3 dlloyd3 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 195
Default Skyview Panel

I have a dual Skyview panel, each with a backup battery, EMS, heated pitot, 2 ADAHRS, Dynon GPS, roll and pitch servos, SL30, GTX327, and GMA240. If Dynon had come out with their transponer 3 months earlier it would be in my airplane rather than the 327. You will love this setup. For backup, go with 2 ADAHRS and backup batteries for each display. The GMA240 is a little less money than the 5000, and has a very nice intercom. Get the money up front and it is much easier to install now than later. You will not remove the SL30 later, it is like having 2 radios in one. You can have bearing pointers on the HSI for both the active and standby frequencies as well as the GPS nav indicator all at the same time. Yes, you can use this for IFR. If you fly to a bunch of airports with GPS only approaches you need to rethink getting the 430. I bought everything from SteinAir. They did the inter-radio wiring, cables for the autopilot servos (including power wires) and provided the appropriate Dynon interconnecting cables.
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  #3  
Old 02-27-2011, 05:15 PM
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miyu1975 miyu1975 is offline
 
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Is the audio panel even needed with one Nav/Comm?
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  #4  
Old 02-27-2011, 05:53 PM
dlloyd3 dlloyd3 is offline
 
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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Default Audio panel

Ryan,
You do not need an audio panel for 1 nav/com. But if you want a panel mounted intercom you will spend money and wiring time on either. With an audio panel already installed, you will be ready for future expansion.
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  #5  
Old 02-27-2011, 06:20 PM
JVolkober JVolkober is offline
 
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Location: Camas, WA
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Default IFR Panel Question - Audio Panel

Good point. The audio panel would be in place if I had both an SL-30/40 and the GNS-430. With ony the SL-30, I'd likely stick with the intercom.

John
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2011, 07:32 PM
rosier9 rosier9 is offline
 
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91.205 (d) spells out what you need for IFR flight... you will probably have everything with your so called "day/night vfr panel..." IFR doesn't mean gps... All (I use that term liberally) your gaining with the 430 is a certified gps. The Skyview still has a map display for SA... The ILS of the SL30 will still get you in with the lowest weather minimums. GPS approaches are on the rise, but the phasing out of VOR/ILS approaches isn't really happening (from my limited observation).
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:33 PM
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rvmills rvmills is offline
 
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John,

Some thoughts from an IFR pilot with a VFR RV-6 (who may have done a few things differently looking back). I've done one major panel upgrade and several minor tweaks since buying my plane, so my first thought is to weigh expense now versus hassle and down time later. My gut feeling is that short term savings by scaling back now, may be eaten up later in new panel overlays or panel cutting, new harness fabrication, and some losses in selling a used intercom and radio, to by the new audio panel, radio and 430.

If the budget can expand to capture the 430, SL-30 and audio panel together, as Dave described, you'll have (IMHO) a pretty powerful GPS and VHF Nav package. If the 430 is a budget breaker, you might be able to include the tray and the harness in the initial install, cover the hole with a panel blank, and slide it in when the time comes. You might wait to see what Garmin has up it's sleeve with the rumored new panel mounts before makng the call, but that strategy could be used whatever you plan for in terms of an IFR GPS. Dave's idea on the Dynon xpndr may save you some panel real estate too.

Those suggestions are designed to keep your back from the slings and arrows of a panel upgrade. If you can avoid, or minimize planned obsolesence in your panel, you might save a lot of work later (and extended down times just before you start IFR training).

Another thought, from that pilot training perspective is panel familiarity. Having your IFR panel now would give you the opportunity to learn it like the back of your hand during local and cross country flying, and when you're ready to go under the hood in earnest, much of the buttonology will be second nature, so the learning curve will be somewhat more managable, versus learning the scan, the procedures and the boxes together.

FWIW, I installed an SL-40, and wish I'd gone with an SL-30...would have given me /A capability and ILS/LOC/VOR capability. Live and learn!

Just some thoughts...hope they add value (and not trying too hard to spend your money for ya!)

Have fun designing!

Cheers,
Bob
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  #8  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:50 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosier9 View Post
91.205 (d) spells out what you need for IFR flight... you will probably have everything with your so called "day/night vfr panel..." IFR doesn't mean gps... All (I use that term liberally) your gaining with the 430 is a certified gps. The Skyview still has a map display for SA... The ILS of the SL30 will still get you in with the lowest weather minimums. GPS approaches are on the rise, but the phasing out of VOR/ILS approaches isn't really happening (from my limited observation).
I;d be careful about omitting the IFR GPS at this point in time., We upgraded Louise's panel to glass about three years ago, and since we were doing it on a budget, went with a non-IFR GPS panel - SL-30 for "legal" nav, with a 396 for Situational Awareness. It turns out to be harder and harder to find approaches that she can fly just a couple of years later - so many depend on a DME or GPS fix these days. Yes, you can always fly an ILS to 200 and a quarter - if there is one in the vicinity of where you are going. the IFR system is rapidly adapting to GPS as a primary, default Nav source, and going without it in a new panel is probably being a little penny-wise and pound foolish.

My opinion of course.

There are many good threads here on VAF debating and detailing good, sound designs for IFR equipment and how to provide backups for failure. If you're new to the idea of IFR, I'd do some searches in the Glass Cockpit forum and see what you can find.

Paul
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2011, 09:08 AM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
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I second Paul's suggestion and opinion here. As much as I hated the cost of 430, it has been the major part of the IFR instrument flying for me.

Also, you may want to look into a hub such as approach fast stack hub for wiring as it will make any new addition/replacement equipment basically a plug & play as oppose to rewiring/splicing into existing wiring which can be a major work.
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  #10  
Old 03-02-2011, 01:09 PM
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Sig600 Sig600 is offline
 
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Wait until the end of the month when Garmin unveils their new toys. The 430 may come down significantly in price here real soon.


It think you've got a good start to your panel. The only thing I would think about adding is a complete stand alone attidtude source, like a D6 w/ battery back up. It may be over kill, then again, redundancy and horsepower are two things you can never have too much of.
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