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Remote AOA display for any EFIS streaming AOA data

Brantel

Brantel

Well Known Member
I put the finishing touches on the hardware and firmware design to create a remote AOA display that is compatible with any EFIS that streams serial data that includes AOA information. This started as a Dynon project but it could work with any of them that stream.

Here is a video of it working with a Dynon system. You can see the Dynon display in the background as well as hear the progressive tone the Dynon produces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ePjfBw5S-M&sns=em

I still need to package this into a thin package that can lay flat on the dash in the sight line one uses when landing..

I added an ambient light sensor and software to automatically dim the LED's using the PWM output of the controller.
This works very well.

If anyone wants details on how to build one, let me know!
 
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Brian - if you can make this work with the GRT, I have wanted to have somethign liek this for a long time - sign me up!! I have found their computed AOA to work just fine for pattern and approach work - but it is not in the line of sight on the display - a remote head would make it perfect.

Paul
 
AOA numbers?

Brian,
I have an onboard computer in my -4 and I wrote some code for an AoA display but I have a couple of issues that you have probably solved already. First, with the Dynon, what values do you use for red, yellow and green. I'm talking about the number that comes out of the Dynon. I belive the the range is 1-99. Where does the yellow start and where does the red start. Second, I only sample the data at 10hz even though it is sent at 55hz IIRC and my display is still very sensitive. What did you do to smooth it out. BTW, I have the display pop up automatically when I slow down below 100 mph but you have to have exceeded 100 at least once before it will pop up. Thanks.
T.Bear
 
Thanks Jamie,

This was the easy part. Now I have to make up some sort of enclosure to mount this stuff in where it looks nice and fits flat on the glare shield...The controller will be remote mounted behind the panel.

Jamie said:
Very nice work, Brian!
Click to expand...
 
Charlie,

Dynon sez that they stream at 64hz and from my testing that seems about right.

They also gave me their numbers for binding to the on screen AOA display on the Dynon:

aoa_cropped.jpg


The variable's range is 0-99.
0 maps to the bottom of the Green
49 is top of the Green
50 is bottom of the Yellow
74 is top of the Yellow
75 is bottom of the Red
99 is top of the Red

This works out just right in my rig. Since I took the video above, I reduced the number of Yellow LED's to three and added an additional Green. This has my display perfectly matching the on screen Dynon display.

As far as smoothing, in flight the values do not change that quickly if the AOA is properly calibrated. There is also a smoothing effect created as a side effect of having 100 data points mapped to only 12 LED's. The on screen Dynon display has 18 I think.

I am really eager to get this thing into an enclosure and start using it. I bet I can get my landing distances down with this tool!!!

cguarino said:
Brian,
I have an onboard computer in my -4 and I wrote some code for an AoA display but I have a couple of issues that you have probably solved already. First, with the Dynon, what values do you use for red, yellow and green. I'm talking about the number that comes out of the Dynon. I belive the the range is 1-99. Where does the yellow start and where does the red start. Second, I only sample the data at 10hz even though it is sent at 55hz IIRC and my display is still very sensitive. What did you do to smooth it out. BTW, I have the display pop up automatically when I slow down below 100 mph but you have to have exceeded 100 at least once before it will pop up. Thanks.
T.Bear
Click to expand...
 
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Brantel said:
I added an ambient light sensor and software to automatically dim the LED's using the PWM output of the controller.
Click to expand...
How are you dimming 12 LEDs when there are only 6 PWM outputs? Are you creating your own PWM signals for the generic digital outputs? Just curious, thanks.
 
No sir,

It is way easier than that for this project....

Since the LED's all share a common, one can use only one PWM output to dim the LED's.

The way this works is this:

The positive output from the controller connects thru a current limiting resistor to the LED's anode. The Cathode of all the LED's are tied to a common rail. The LED common can then be connected to the PWM output for dimming.

Since the PWM signal is really just a ratio of HIGH vs LOW duty cycle, when it is low, it will provide the current path for the LED.

Now there is one problem that must be solved...

The PWM output can only drive so much current. 13 LED's all at full power will exceed this current rating! There is an easy fix for this though. All you have to do is take the PWM output thru a cheap NPN switching transistor and use the transistor to drive the LED's. Cost about 10 cents.

There are several ways to display AOA on an LED array, one way is to have all the LED's on at low AOA and turn them off as you move toward critical AOA.(Similar to this video) Another is to leave them all off and turn on one LED at a time representing the AOA.(Similar to my last video above) Still another would be to turn them all on and then turn off the one that represents the AOA.

I like the all off and only turn on the one that represents AOA. Everyone will have their own preference.

If you only turn one on at a time, you would not need the transistor setup mentioned above since one LED is within the current capability of the PWM output. I went ahead and built this into my design so I can have all the flexibility without burning up my PWM output.


FloridaJohn said:
How are you dimming 12 LEDs when there are only 6 PWM outputs? Are you creating your own PWM signals for the generic digital outputs? Just curious, thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Brian, that's some great work you are doing. I know Vern had a similar AOA device. One thing that I was most interested in was placing the unit on the glare shield so that it would reflect up on the plexi somewhat HUD-like. Some have even tried it with some success. I think there's a wash-out problem in bright sun though. In a HUD setup, maybe having the LEDs turned up full in bright conditions and then dim as necessary would be useful?
AOA in a HUD presentation would be very appealing to me.
Just thinking aloud here.
Keep up the good work!
 
I bet with some super brite LED's and this dimming capability (the ambient light sensor is awesome), one might get this to work in HUD mode.
 
Paul,

Talked to the programers at GRT and it seems they have coded the serial stream to make this work but have not turned it on yet. They need a GRT customer to request it. They stated it would be easy for them to switch it on....

Ironflight said:
Brian - if you can make this work with the GRT, I have wanted to have somethign liek this for a long time - sign me up!! I have found their computed AOA to work just fine for pattern and approach work - but it is not in the line of sight on the display - a remote head would make it perfect.

Paul
Click to expand...
 
Brantel said:
Paul,

Talked to the programers at GRT and it seems they have coded the serial stream to make this work but have not turned it on yet. They need a GRT customer to request it. They stated it would be easy for them to switch it on....
Click to expand...

Hmm....I'l have to rattle Todd's cage again! I talked to him about this last year, and thought he told me that it was functional, but they were too busy to develop a remote head.

Paul
 
Optimum approach speed

Brantel said:
aoa_cropped.jpg


The variable's range is 0-99.
0 maps to the bottom of the Green
49 is top of the Green
50 is bottom of the Yellow
74 is top of the Yellow
75 is bottom of the Red
99 is top of the Red
Click to expand...

So what AoA value is the optimum for a normal and short field approach?
 
Mine stalls right when the bottom Red goes out.

I use top few lines of the Green for normal and bottom to mid Yellow for short, but only after established on final.

It really depends on the pilot and their comfort level. RV's sink like a brick when operated at low speed high AOA so be careful! It is easy to get behind the power curve!
 
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Brantel said:
Paul,

Talked to the programers at GRT and it seems they have coded the serial stream to make this work but have not turned it on yet. They need a GRT customer to request it. They stated it would be easy for them to switch it on....
Click to expand...

I provided a unit (V-Speed ADS) to GRT some time ago so that they could develop/test their serial link to be compatible. I also provided some promo information for their use.

I believe that the commercial response by GRT's customers was limited, so they never moved ahead with official support. Since the demand was modest from the Dynon customers and non-existent from the GRT customers, I decided to shelve the product.

It works great, does everything needed: AOA or slow flight indications if no AoA probe installed, cruise flight indications (when AOA is not active), flashing, dimming, flap overspeed sensing and occassionaly would clean up and do the dishes as well.

I found that after Dynon increased the size of their visual indicator on screen and added the progressive audio, the need for a glare-mount display was reduced.

To add insult to injury, GRT never returned the loaner unit I sent them! Maybe it's doing the dishes in the back room.

Vern

http://vx-aviation.com/old_products.html
 
Hey Vern - check your PM's - if you've got a unit that works with GRT - I'd love to try it!
 
Vern, not sure why there was limited demand for your device. I know I sure want something similar. The bonus for me is that this was a fun project. Can't wait to finish it and put it to good use! I never intend to market one..
 
Vern
I would buy one of your units if it were available again.
I am not at the point of being able to use itn yat but always intended to buy ione whe I got to Avionics. I am disappointed I lefty it too late.
Perhaps if you did a limited run, for commited orders, with knowledge the unit won't be available on demand at other times, people would sign up to get one evem if not at avionics stage. I certainly would.
John
 
For me these are too big. I wanted something Compact and flat that can sit on top of the glare shield right in the line of sight while in landing attitude.
 
Serial data format?

Hi Brian,

I'll be using MGL Avionics EFIS, so I asked Rainier from MGL if his instruments would be able to produce AOA information. Here is his answer:
This is possible via the USB link.
However, this is not for the faint hearted.
I'll be quite happy to add an RS232 message that contains primary flight data. Any idea what the desired format should be ?

Rainier
Click to expand...
So, do you have a description available or a link to a Dynon document, as I understand you started this with Dynon EFIS as your data source.
Thanks
 
This controller can do USB or Serial. Serial for this data is fine and the standard. He can use the Dynon document above for a format to use or he can create his own.
 
Brantel said:
This controller can do USB or Serial. Serial for this data is fine and the standard. He can use the Dynon document above for a format to use or he can create his own.
Click to expand...

OK, had a look at the Dynon Doc.
Can I do my own message rather ?
Reason is that I have a unrelated request for some additional data items not covered in this message and due to small differences in philosophy it would suit me better to stick to our own data formats. Due to possible certification of some of our products I also need to add a bit of additional framing and data security.
Are you OK with binary data ?

Rainier
 
Rainier,

Just let us know what your data stream format is when you get it finished and we can use it. I like ASCII representation of HEX because it is easy to read from a human standpoint but yeah we can use binary.

Rainier Lamers said:
OK, had a look at the Dynon Doc.
Can I do my own message rather ?
Reason is that I have a unrelated request for some additional data items not covered in this message and due to small differences in philosophy it would suit me better to stick to our own data formats. Due to possible certification of some of our products I also need to add a bit of additional framing and data security.
Are you OK with binary data ?

Rainier
Click to expand...
 
Rainier Lamers said:
OK, had a look at the Dynon Doc.
Can I do my own message rather ?
Reason is that I have a unrelated request for some additional data items not covered in this message and due to small differences in philosophy it would suit me better to stick to our own data formats. Due to possible certification of some of our products I also need to add a bit of additional framing and data security.
Are you OK with binary data ?

Rainier
Click to expand...

Hi Rainier. Just a heads up: GRT also has a patch that puts out the Dynon format for air data, so that makes two EFIS manufacturers that support it. It would make sense for you to have a compatability mode that supports it.

When I developed our remote AoA, it worked with the Dynon EFIS. GRT also developed a serial stream to drive it. Sounds like a trend.

Vern
 
I agree with Vern, if you guys could all make the serial stream compatible with the Dynon format, it would simplify using these devices on multiple brands. Looks like GRT did that already.

Or you could just put the AOA data in the same location within the stream in the same format and that would work as well.

Either way, it is pretty simple to change the code to work with whatever you come up with....(on uControllers similar to the one I am using)

vlittle said:
Hi Rainier. Just a heads up: GRT also has a patch that puts out the Dynon format for air data, so that makes two EFIS manufacturers that support it. It would make sense for you to have a compatability mode that supports it.

When I developed our remote AoA, it worked with the Dynon EFIS. GRT also developed a serial stream to drive it. Sounds like a trend.

Vern
Click to expand...
 
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It's one of those "Dang !" things if you know what I mean.

We used to have a serial data steam but took that away due to use of the USB. We are putting a serial stream back but it's quite different as it is actually intended to go into a "black box" flight recorder. As you can imagine, it has a bit more data compared to the Dynon message and due to the nature of the beast the data has to be transferred in a bullet proof kind of way (i.e. the black box recorder only records data that can be strictly verified so it can stand up to scrutiny).

I'd have to make a completely separate arrangement for the Dynon data stream. Don't like that. Let me sleep over it...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

Brantel said:
I agree with Vern, if you guys could all make the serial stream compatible with the Dynon format, it would simplify using these devices on multiple brands. Looks like GRT did that already.

Or you could just put the AOA data in the same location within the stream in the same format and that would work as well.

Either way, it is pretty simple to change the code to work with whatever you come up with....
Click to expand...
 
Brantel said:
I agree with Vern, if you guys could all make the serial stream compatible with the Dynon format, it would simplify using these devices on multiple brands. Looks like GRT did that already.

Or you could just put the AOA data in the same location within the stream in the same format and that would work as well.

Either way, it is pretty simple to change the code to work with whatever you come up with....
Click to expand...

Actually, the AoA system that I used to sell uses more than the AoA information. It uses airspeed information for cruise flight (Va, Vso and Vne indication) and airspeed and flap position data to provide a flap overspeed alarm. In fact, even without an AoA probe installed, it presents critical slow flight speed (Vs, Vso, Vx, Vy) I'd recommend keeping as much data as possible.

V
 
vlittle said:
Actually, the AoA system that I used to sell uses more than the AoA information. It uses airspeed information for cruise flight (Va, Vso and Vne indication) and airspeed and flap position data to provide a flap overspeed alarm. In fact, even without an AoA probe installed, it presents critical slow flight speed (Vs, Vso, Vx, Vy) I'd recommend keeping as much data as possible.

V
Click to expand...

Sure if the data is there, why not output it. Someone may want to use it similar to the way Vern did.

Rainier sounds like Vern would appreciate it if you could make the MGL units output stream compatible with the Dynon format. He may be looking at restarting production on his device???? I don't plan on selling mine so he would be the suggestion to follow....maybe you could put a switch in the setup menu that allowed the user a choice between the Dynon compatible format and your super duper TSO'd certified format?
 
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Brantel said:
Sure if the data is there, why not output it. Someone may want to use it similar to the way Vern did.

Rainier sounds like Vern would appreciate it if you could make the MGL units output stream compatible with the Dynon format. He may be looking at restarting production on his device???? I don't plan on selling mine so he would be the suggestion to follow....maybe you could put a switch in the setup menu that allowed the user a choice between the Dynon compatible format and your super duper TSO'd certified format?
Click to expand...

Geeze, with all of this latent demand, I may be forced to restart production. I'll have to consider it. No promises, but I'm thinking.

V
 
"with all of this latent demand, I may be forced to restart production"

Vern
As I stated above, yes please.
John
 
Yes, I'd like to add my voice.
Please make a nice AOA.
We get requests quite regulary but simply don't have the available R&D time. We have nearly 25 active projects under design with four engineers so you can imagine that an AOA indicator is really far down the list.

In other words: If you make, we don't have to...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

rjtjrt said:
"with all of this latent demand, I may be forced to restart production"

Vern
As I stated above, yes please.
John
Click to expand...
 
Project Finished

I finally found a suitable enclosure and finished the remote AOA indicator. I flew with the prototype several times to prove out the design and it works great.

I managed to stuff all the electronics into this small enclosure that I found that meet 95% of my expectations for a box to put this in.

Since I used off the shelf uController boards, the size and shape of the parts that had to go into this thing were not very forgiving but I did manage to get it all in there along with a pretty good heat sink for the 5v regulator. I used a high efficiency regulator to help reduce heat but there is still some pretty good heat given off since this thing must get rid of about 9 volts. The unit draws ~175mA at max brightness with all the LED's on.

Power and ground and the RS232 signal from the Dynon is all that is needed to make this thing run. It is plug and play. Turn it on and it works.

Below is a video showing the finished product displaying sample data. It also details the autodim feature. The ambient light sensor from Modern Device works extremely well. It has a logrithmic output and is almost impossible to saturate so it has great response.

I made the LED's that remain on blink fast at any indication of two Yellow and below to get your attention if you get into this range. The video does not show this due to the slow shutter speed of the Iphone camera. Trust me, they blink....

Here is the video:

2ufrarn.jpg


For this project I used the RBBB from Modern Device along with their RS232 to TTL converter and their Ambient Light Sensor. The enclosure is made by Bud. The LED's and resistors and voltage regulator/heat sink came from Mouser.

This was a cool project with some challenges to solve but in the end it works great! Have fun if you build your own!
 
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Rainier Lamers said:
Yes, I'd like to add my voice.
Please make a nice AOA.
We get requests quite regulary but simply don't have the available R&D time. We have nearly 25 active projects under design with four engineers so you can imagine that an AOA indicator is really far down the list.

In other words: If you make, we don't have to...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Click to expand...

Well, it looks more likely that I will be restarting production of the V-Speed device.

It looks like Rainier will support the serial stream format, and Garmin has expressed some interest as well. This would make 4 manufacturers supporting my little box.

As a heads up (pun intended) the V-Speed device can be programmed/configured by an EFIS screen as well, using the data protocol in the data sheet. This will greatly simplify configuration/programming by the user.

I've also wrestled a manufacturing issue to the ground that made alignment of the discrete LEDs time consuming. Things are looking good.

In order to move ahead, if anyone is interested in purchasing a unit, please send me a PM, and provide me their email address. I will put them on the hot list for notification.

Thanks, Vern

V-speed.jpg
 
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Cool Vern,

Glad I could respark some intrest in your commercial version....
Also good to see the other EFIS makers getting on board.

Keep it simple, plug and play and low cost and they will come!
 
I've got one on the way from Vern to hook up in the RV-8....will report back when I have it in hand and flying! Gee...if Garmin decides to support it, I might have to keep it portable so I can hook it up to either the GRT in the -8 or the G3X in the -3....:)

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
I've got one on the way from Vern to hook up in the RV-8....will report back when I have it in hand and flying! Gee...if Garmin decides to support it, I might have to keep it portable so I can hook it up to either the GRT in the -8 or the G3X in the -3....:)

Paul
Click to expand...

Thanks, Paul. Bob Mills has one in his "Rocket-6", perhaps he can share his opinion.

One "fault" of the V-Speed ADS AoA indicator is that for some modes of operation (other than AoA), it needs to be configured on the bench. This requires a computer, a serial port, power supply and the Hyperterminal or similar program to do so.

I have indicated to the EFIS manufacturers that they could put a configuration page on their EFIS which would eliminate this requirement. It seems that there is quite a bit of interest in Vx Aviation bringing this unit back to the market. It was developed 5 years ago before a lot of pilots had experience with AoA. Looks like AoA is becoming a "must have" and the time has come to restart production of this device.

Therefore, I will restart production. New units will be available in a few weeks in limited quantities. I will send out an announcement when this happens.

Anyone wishing to be personally notified of it's availability, please send me a PM.

Thanks, Vern
 
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vlittle said:
Thanks, Paul. Bob Mills has one in his "Rocket-6", perhaps he can share his opinion.
Click to expand...

Happy to Vern.

First, just wanted to tell Brian that I've been watching this thread, and your AOA project turned out really nice! Really impressive, and looks like you had fun! Wish I had the brains!! ;)

Paul, I'm not sure if the wiring for the V-Speed ADS will be different between my Dynon set up and your GRT and G3X. You might be able to design a quick disconnect on the V-Speed ADS pigtail to tie into a little harness in each airplane that will allow you to switch between the two airplanes.

On the Dynon version, there are four wires: 12v, GND, RXD and Flaps. Power and Ground would be straight forward on the airplane harness. Not sure if you have electric flaps on either, but you could use or not use that feature (I have manual flaps, so I do not). The sticky wicket (maybe) is the ADS' RXD line, which gets connected to a "SET/RUN" switch that connects that line to either a TX or RX line between the Dynon and it's DB-9 serial port. If that same type of system is in the GRT or G3X, then you could build a harness with 12V, GND, and the switch and RXD line to whatever port the GRT and G3X have. Not sure if that made sense, but here's a pic from the Vx ADS data sheet:
V-Speed%20ADS%20schematic.jpg


I have it hard-wired into my plane and mounted on the glareshield. I started with it horizontal, and now have it vertical (like an AOA indexer). Looking forward to testing Brian Wallis' LED "HUD", and putting this next to it (I know, I know...its a disease! :p)

mirror2.jpg


The ADS works very well. Its AOA indications are very close to the indications on the Dynon. The top yellow, then the red LEDs come on about when the stall warning sounds, and are timed very close to the same colors on the Dynon. The high speed range works well too, though I need to adjust mine a bit...I'm always near the top of the scale. :rolleyes:

Vern, I'd like to ask you a question about setting it via the EFIS, per your comments below. I tried using hyperterminal using the standard update cable, but I'd never used hyperterminal before, and I don't think I ever got the light flash from the ADS. Its been working, and I got busy with other projects, so kept putting off following up on this. I would like to play with it a bit, and fine tune it for my use. Is there an EFIS-enabled adjustment via a D-100 available, and if so, can you point me to it? If not, may I call you and get some hyperterminal OJT?


vlittle said:
One "fault" of the V-Speed ADS AoA indicator is that for some modes of operation (other than AoA), it needs to be configured on the bench. This requires a computer, a serial port, power supply and the Hyperterminal or similar program to do so.
Click to expand...

vlittle said:
As a heads up (pun intended) the V-Speed device can be programmed/configured by an EFIS screen as well, using the data protocol in the data sheet. This will greatly simplify configuration/programming by the user.
Click to expand...

Cheers,
Bob
 
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Bob,

Coolterm is a free terminal program that is way easier to use and more powerful than Hyperterminal...

Thanks for the comments on my project AOA indicator. It was a fun one to do. I flew with it fully installed last evening and it is working great. It matches the Dynon 1:1 at this time but I might tweak it a little to make it more expanded in the critical range. It is cool to see the last Yellow light go out right when the airplane falls out.
 
Thanks Brian, Coolterm downloaded, will give it a try.

Glad your AOA is working so well! Fun stuff! Nice packaging too!

Vern, glad you're back in the AOA biz too. Will play with mine some more and report back to you...or call with a cry for help! :p

Cheers,
Bob
 
Thanks for the report Bob - I am looking forward to giving the unit a try with the GRT. I've already studied the manual, and wiring should essentially be identical to that on the Dynon. I don't plan to use a flap switch (I just calibrated the GRT AOA in landing configuration), so it's really just just power, ground, and receiving the serial data - dirt simple.

And thanks Brian for the terminal emulator link - looks very simple. Do you use an older computer that still has a serial port, or a USB/Serial converter? I'll have to dig through the attic to find something that has a dinosaur port if it doesn't work handily with a USB....;)

Paul
 
Paul,

I have used it with both. It works either way...you just have to know what port your virtual USB Serial adaptor is using....
 
Ironflight said:
Thanks for the report Bob - I am looking forward to giving the unit a try with the GRT. I've already studied the manual, and wiring should essentially be identical to that on the Dynon. I don't plan to use a flap switch (I just calibrated the GRT AOA in landing configuration), so it's really just just power, ground, and receiving the serial data - dirt simple.

And thanks Brian for the terminal emulator link - looks very simple. Do you use an older computer that still has a serial port, or a USB/Serial converter? I'll have to dig through the attic to find something that has a dinosaur port if it doesn't work handily with a USB....;)

Paul
Click to expand...

Ah,yes-- serial port heck! That's why I'm asking the EFIS vendors to provide setup pages to configure the AoA remote indicator (V-Speed ADS). It would be a lot easier than messing with USB dongles and terminal emulators.

For the EFIS vendors monitoring this thread - the online manual details the protocol that can be embedded in the serial data for configuration. Contact me for more details if required.

Thanks, V
 
Well I think I updated the cruise settings on my V-Speed ADS today. Used CoolTerm (thanks Brian), and I fumbled through till I sent the string. I'm pretty clueless on terminal emulators! I saw the unit flash, so hopefully all is well. Will test it next week...once I get my fairings re-done (almost there!).

Paul, I used the same R-Shack USB to serial cable I used to update the Dynon.

Vern, I'll let you know how it worked, or make that "help" call after I fly it again.

On the low speed AOA range, how are the default AOA percentages selected...are they set to match the color changes in the Dynon, or do those percentages represent something specific aerodynamically? I know they are percentage of stall AOA, but is there a science to what percentages are selected (this or that happens at that percentage)? Do they also also correlate to speed increments over stall (like 1.3 Vso for a ref speed...would that be 77% or 1/1.3)? Is it linear like that? Just wondering, in case I want to play around with the low-end a bit. Thanks!

And Brian, just to keep from totally stealing your thread, how does your program light the LEDs...is it an electronic power on/off repeater that matches the Dynon AOA lines' on/off status (if that is possible), or does it measure the AOA percentage like Vern's. More wunderin'! :)

Cheers,
Bob
 
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