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Changing Forks?.

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
I was at this fancy dinner last week, and you know, they had three – not two, three – forks on the left side of the plate, and yet ANOTHER one across the top…boy, was I confused….

No, that’s not the kind of fork I’m talking about; I’m talking tail wheel forks. I’m making another change on the Valkyrie, after flying happily with my API fork for most of the airplane’s life. The fact is, I am still happy with it, except for one thing – the compatibility with the rest of our “fleet”.

First, a little background. About the time I first flew the Val, the Bell tail wheel fork made it’s appearance. For all the reasons that it appeared, I was unhappy with the Van’s fork – predominantly, the ground clearance in front of the tail wheel. I heard stories of getting that low-slung fork caught on a concrete lip and ripping the bulkheads out of the fuse – not a pretty thought! The bell gave so much clearance that it is guaranteed that the tire will always hit an obstacle first. The only problem was, they were hard to get. Well, the API fork was easily obtained, and it would bolt right on where the Bell came off – you just had to drill it to match the spring. Installing it was easy, and I have been very happy with it’s performance, but in the RV world, it has two limitations, both of which are maintenance related – the diameter of the axle is different than van’s standard, and the diameter of the shaft is different as well – meaning that you have to use a different steering arm. Neither f these incompatibilities is a big deal, so long as you are buying spares from API…but when you have three RV’s in the hangar, and they have different spare requirements, it can be a bit of a pain if you want to share parts!

Louise’s -6 has a real, authentic Bell fork – it fits right in to the Van’s “knuckle” and uses standard Van’s spares for bearings, wheels, axles, and arms. For the -3 that we are building, I had the opportunity to pick up a bell “clone” from Aviation Tech Products – a very nice unit that is available from Alex deDominicus, of RV transition training fame. The ATP fork has all the same features of the Bell, especially the compatibility with the rest of the RV world. Getting one for the -3 meant that the -8 (Valkyrie) was odd-ship-out for our hangar. With the routine wear that we see on control arms, and the fact that I wanted to try out the new control arms from JDAir.Com, we were once again faced with the issue of not having the same spares around – so I figured it was time to bite the bullet, convert the Val back to a standard knuckle (still have it!), and get us all back to a single configuration. The price on the ATP fork was reasonable, and Alex had them in stock, so one was on its way quickly. I am still a huge supporter of the Bell’s, but I know that their production rate is slow, and the waiting list long – if you want something very similar, and you want it now….Alex is one good source.

Installation really only took a few minutes, and the API will probably go on sale to someone who wants the better ground clearance, but doesn’t have the same “fleet” commonality issues that we face. I had to dig out the old knuckle and give it a quick “clean and paint” once-over. The new control arms from JDAir arrived in just a couple of days (nice web site for ordering), and both Louise and I were very happy with the design, fit, and finish. It will be interesting to see if they have longer wear lives that the Van’s or Silver Bullet (no longer available) arms – only time will tell. But if they work as well as they look, I am optimistic. Now maybe I need to give a think to one of those lightweight tail wheels that DJM is selling – might be just the thing for that lightweight RV-3…..;)

Van’s Knuckle and Tailwheel, AviationTech Fork, JDair arm and Silver Silver Bullet Link (no longer available – buy the JDair now…)
IMG_0531.JPG


Paul
 
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Dang, Paul! what'd you go and do that for. After seeing your pics I had to go to JD Air website. I have a rocket steering link and Screaming eagle tail fork, both of which I like. BUT I have the Vans factory control arm.

The JD arm looks fantastic, as does the JD steering link. OF course while cruising the site, I found the fuel drain fairings....hey it's only money.

So I figure your pictures may cost me $about $250.....I also figure it's your fault, so cost sharing should be in order.:D:D:D
 
I don't know about that

It is my understanding that the wait time for a Bell fork is very short, or non-existent. I know there was a rather long lead time in the past, but not so much now. I may be misinformed, but nonetheless, I would hope habitual, influential posters confirm facts before making negative comments about respected suppliers of quality products.
Mark
 
It is my understanding that the wait time for a Bell fork is very short, or non-existent. I know there was a rather long lead time in the past, but not so much now. I may be misinformed, but nonetheless, I would hope habitual, influential posters confirm facts before making negative comments about respected suppliers of quality products.
Mark

Mark,

I sincerely hope that I have not offended you or the Bell's. I had not heard that they were caught up - the last post I had seen here was from Doug Jr. that they were still working to get caught up, but I might very well have missed that they were there. In any case, I have nothing but praise for the Bell design, and the quality of their forks - I think I pointed that out here and in the past. We fly one on Louise's airplane every day.

If indeed, they are caught up and easy to get, that is great news!

Paul
 
It is my understanding that the wait time for a Bell fork is very short, or non-existent. I know there was a rather long lead time in the past, but not so much now. I may be misinformed, but nonetheless, I would hope habitual, influential posters confirm facts before making negative comments about respected suppliers of quality products.
Mark

Sorry Mark, but I saw absolutely nothing negative about Paul's post about the Bells. I have used 3 Bell tail wheels, and have had to wait 3-6 months for them. They have been worth the wait. I'm in the process of another 8 build and appreciate the timeliness of Paul's post as I will need another Bell or an alternative if the Bell's should suffer a production hiccup.
 
DJM Wheel

The Tail Wheel from Dayton Murdock. Will save you almost 1 lb back there!!!
Get that first.
 
Old fashioned service

I too recently made the decision to change out my standard Vans tailwheel and fork.
After 230 hrs in my RV6 the tailwheel bearings were completely shot and not available locally and I had also scrapped the tailwheel fork a few times in the past on rough airstrips and sliding hanger door tracks. Both good excuses for a change out I thought!
After much searching of old threads on the subject all the after market products looked good in there own way to me. Here is my experience in deciding on which product(s) to choose.

I could not find a website or email address to contact API so they got put in the too hard basket straight away being that I live in Australia and didn't want to ask for more information and hash out a deal on the phone from the other side of the world.
I sent an email to Doug Bell asking for a price and approximate lead time for his product on the 8th Feb. I still have not had a reply.
I emailed Vince Frazier at Flyboy Accessories with a question on bushings and shipment over here and was met with the first reply within 1/2 hour.
I emailed Alex at Aviation tech products about ordering and shipment over here and was met with a reply within the day.

Decided on the fork from Alex and the wheel from Vince.

While I am sure all the after market tailwheel products are as good as one another, it is good old fashioned SERVICE that will get my money every time.

Thanks guys

Graham
RV6 230hrs
 
newby question

Sorry for may be a stupid question, but I am trying to educate myself on positive and negative castor angle, etc prior to installing my tailwheel. Any problems with tailwheel shimmy with this setup? How is the steering effort?
Thanks
 
Sorry for may be a stupid question, but I am trying to educate myself on positive and negative castor angle, etc prior to installing my tailwheel. Any problems with tailwheel shimmy with this setup? How is the steering effort?
Thanks

The Bell-style tailwheel handles like a dream - positive yet light, with no trace of shimmy. I took this out for a quick taxi test and came back raving to Louise about how much smoother the tailwheel felt. Might have been that the old one was just in need of grease and some TLC, but I noticed a marked improvement.

Paul
 
Tail Wheel Caster should be slightly Positive (Forward at the top). How much forward depends on the weight of the tail wheel and the mechanisum used for steering. This is an Experimental aircraft. Idealy and just as important. Lateraly the steering axis must be exactly vertical or the aircraft will pull to one side or the other.

Jonh D
 
Thanks go to those who posted great feedback about our products and service. Thanks, we try our best!

We keep a low profile, not wanting to overly spam this list with product offers, but I'll take a minute to update those who may not know about our tailwheel products, particularly the Screaming Eagle retrofit fork.

I started making these forks for the Rocket guys over 5 years ago now. It is based on a Jim Winings idea. Jim, who has more RV and Rocket time than anyone I know, is a stickler for smooth, easy, precise steering and this fork has it.

Our fork is somewhat more streamlined than the others. It will even accept a Van's tailwheel pant and still full swivel normally. It has all the obstacle clearance of the competitors and is the same weight as the Van's fork.

It has been very popular with well over 300 units shipped, and more importantly virtually no returns or problems!

We have just about anything you could need for your Van's type tailwheels including replacement parts, springs, tires, steering links, and much more on our web store. And we keep it all in stock (well over 99% of the time) for immediate shipment.

http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/st...dex&cPath=66&zenid=8hp5t89brf0or9ghrt12kv8ej0

Thanks,
 
Bell's still functioning and are caught up

Fellow builders and flyers.
We are caught up on our order list. We have about 20 forks that will be shipping very shortly to teh list of orders that have come in over the last 4-6 weeks.
I owe a few of you emails as I am in the middle of several golf trade shows and have been on the road other than 2 days a week for the last 4 weeks.
You will all get them tomorrow and I apologize for the delays.

THanks for all the kind comments on Dad's fork.
Looking forward to seeing many of you on flightlines.

Sincerely,
Doug jr.
 
Some data for the new fork and wheel

Here is a little data after fitting the new fork and wheel as mentioned in my previous post for anyone that may be interested.

Vans fork and wheel :

Weight 3lb 9oz
Height measured at rudder horn 11''1/8
Prop clearance 17''3/4 ( 0320 with Sensenich F/P )

ATP fork & Flyboy Wheel (no hub caps):

Weight 3Lb 7oz
Height at rudder horn 12''5/8
Prop clearance 17''1/4

IM


Cheers
Graham
RV6 230hrs
 
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The change from the stock Van's tail fork to the one that Vince Frazier sells gave me much better handling, increased clearance and the ability to add this stock Van's wheel pant. I have four years on this set up and yes I fly from a grass strip.
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Maybe i'm missing something... One of the large attractions to the Bell fork for me was the increased clearance between the ground and the bottom of the pivot. Putting a wheelpant on that means you give up that increased clearance in front of the tailwheel again, and are back to risking catching on something if you operate off rough strips... Does the wheelpant make that much of an airspeed difference that it's worth it? Or is it just for looks? :)
 
Maybe i'm missing something... One of the large attractions to the Bell fork for me was the increased clearance between the ground and the bottom of the pivot. Putting a wheelpant on that means you give up that increased clearance in front of the tailwheel again, and are back to risking catching on something if you operate off rough strips... Does the wheelpant make that much of an airspeed difference that it's worth it? Or is it just for looks? :)

At least 10 knots, Rob. :D

In defense of the fairing: actually, you still get the protection from falling in a pot hole, etc.; the fairing will get destroyed, but your tail would probably stay on! Back in the old days, the -3 and -4 days, seems like a lot of RVs had the fairing (including me), much more so than today. But for us old timers, it seems like the airplane just doesn't look complete without the fairing! So call it nostalgia or maybe just the 'retro' look. Definitely just for looks! :)
 
In defense of the fairing: actually, you still get the protection from falling in a pot hole, etc.; the fairing will get destroyed, but your tail would probably stay on! Back in the old days, the -3 and -4 days, seems like a lot of RVs had the fairing (including me), much more so than today. But for us old timers, it seems like the airplane just doesn't look complete without the fairing! So call it nostalgia or maybe just the 'retro' look. Definitely just for looks! :)

Even Louise's -6 (AKA "Mikey") had one of those tailwheel fairings - as you'd expect from Kit #4. We saw it in Mike Seager's hangar up in Oregon, on a little shelf, along with pictures and a model of the airplane...he's the original builder, and that's what he has of it today.

Paul
 
Even with the tail faring installed the clearance is much improved with Vince's new fork. After three or four years the faring is getting a little worn around the edges but it is easily repairable. As far as speed improvements; based on SARL races I am more then 10 knots faster then any other rocket and so I guess it must be the tail faring:)
 
Paul, sorry to hijack your thread a little here, but here's to the renaissance of the tail fairing! I second Tom's endorsement of Vince Frazier's tailwheel fork; I liked it so much, I bought two! One for the fairing and the other for grass fields, etc. Just takes a minute to change them out.

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022pp-1.jpg


Tom, was that your beautiful -8 I saw at Spruce Creek a couple of weekends ago while visiting with Keith and Linda Phillips? :) [Sorry, I have been informed that the RV-8 is Dick Martin's, not Tom Martin's!]
 
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Paul, sorry to hijack your thread a little here, but here's to the renaissance of the tail fairing!

So why hijack it? You have some interesting stuff to talk about (Tailwheel fairings - with nice pictures), and if you START A NEW THREAD, then it will get more visibility and more folks will see it and contribute....;)
 
So why hijack it? You have some interesting stuff to talk about (Tailwheel fairings - with nice pictures), and if you START A NEW THREAD, then it will get more visibility and more folks will see it and contribute....;)

Duly noted! However, I think you're being too modest--everybody knows your threads have the HIGHEST visibility! :D Seriously, I never miss an Ironflight post! Keep 'em coming!
 
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