What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Data point for inexpensive HID lights

Brantel

Brantel

Well Known Member
I bought a pair of 35W HID lights from Ebay to replace the bulbs in my 55w Duckworks kit that was a set of fog lights converted to use with their brackets. I got the 6000K H3 bulbs because I wanted white white light. The 55w halogens always looked very warm in color. The HID kit was advertised as a "Digital" ballast kit. After looking at a million sites selling these things it seems that almost all of them are clones of one another and or made by the same shop in China. The kit I bought was ~$37 delivered for the pair. I did open the ballast after I received them and they do appear to be mostly electronic but there was a small transformer in there. The inside was sprayed/potted with a rubber coating so it was hard to tell what was really in there.

Anyway....I mounted the ballast to the back of the Duckworks bracket using the mounting bracket that came with the kit. I did modify the bracket somewhat to cut off extra that was not needed. The wiring was simple as pie.

After mounting everything and turning them on, I can honestly say that these things are at least three times brighter than the 55w halogens. Here is a comparison, the left side is the HID, the right is the 55w halogen:

141sjr8.jpg



Here they are straight on with the beam:

1e5dft.jpg


15eekqr.jpg


Same shot with the old 55w:

s2tiiv.jpg


I had to leave the airport before it got dark so I did not get any other pics.

One thing...I tried to wig-wag these after they warmed up but that was a no go!!! They will not wig-wag with the NAPA flasher relay!!! Maybe they would with one of the solid state wig-waggers but they won't with the NAPA relay. It just buzzed and sounded like it was going to fry itself so I stopped trying after a second or two.

I have always been afraid to try and regain my night currency (never had it in a TW airplane) with those dim 55w halogens. Maybe now I can give it a whirl.

Can any of you with TD's fill me in on how you like your lights pointed? I need a baseline to start with before I go out and give it a whirl!
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the great report.

A couple of questions, do you experince any more noise with this compared to the old ones. Also, do you have a didecated ground for them or are you using the frame for the ground.

Thanks
 
I have not flown with em yet...I will let you know on the noise. I used the frame for the ground because that is how the originals were. If I have a bunch of noise issues, I will try a common ground before I toss em.

Others have said that these inexpensive lights do not cause any noise after they warm up and the noise that they do cause during startup is brief and not very bad. At least one reports no noise at all.

I will let you know!
 
3.2 amps each. During startup they draw around 10 combined for a second. I think the newer ballast limit the startup current.
 
Just ordered one of these. Since it is totally solid state, maybe it will work. It also has a few different flash speeds to pick from.

IMG_ETHFSS-SP.jpg
 
Landing Light Angles

Brantel said:
Can any of you with TD's fill me in on how you like your lights pointed? I need a baseline to start with before I go out and give it a whirl!
Click to expand...

On my RV-8 I have the right light pointing pretty much straight ahead so as to illuminate the approach end of the runway at approach speed. The left one is pointed 8 or 10 degrees down (????? approx.,havent measured) for better visibility while taxiing back to the ramp and hangar.

Of course that leaves the right one "shooting at the moon" in the tail down position.;)
 
To finish the story on my inexpensive HID lights, after flying with them for some time I did notice that they reflected a ton of high frequency noise back onto the power lines. This is clearly evident when listening to the background noise on any non-active com channel with the squelch in test mode or open.

This noise also caused my Dynon's DSAB bus to drop out...really bad in Wig-Wag mode...

The HIDs initially give a pretty good "bezerp" when they ignite and then they settle into just plain old static. The noise threshold is obvioulsy increased quite a bit.

The Wig-Wag mode only exacerbates this issue. If they are warm, the Wig-Wag does not bezerp each time they come on, they ignite instantly with no "bezerp" but the noise floor is still elevated.

Those that know a little about radio will understand that just because you can squelch out background noise, it is not desirable to just mask the issue since an increased or high noise threshold can cause your AGC circuit in the radio to automatically reduce the sensitivity of the receiver resulting in poor performance.

That being said, Here was the fix:

I installed a Ferrite Core as close to the HID ballast as possible. I wrapped the power and ground wires thru the core three times each. Ferrite cores act as a choke to high frequencies basically blocking them at the source before they can do any harm.

I also installed a .1uF capacitor across the power and ground wires right behind the ferrite core. This capacitor functions as a decoupling capacitor and will shunt any high frequencies that get past the ferrite core to ground before they can travel back up the power wire.

The ferrite core I used is similar to this one:

1rq79z.jpg


The results are complete elimination of the noise reflected back onto the aircraft's systems. No noticable noise floor increase, no Dynon DSAB dropouts!!! Could not even tell I had switched them on and the Wig-Wag only results in some very slight clicks over the intercom.
 
Last edited:
Clarification on the capacitor location

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the experimentation. I'll probably use your tip for my lights.

I want to confirm the location of the capacitor please.

Is it on the ballast side or aircraft side of the ferrite?
 
ballast → ferrite → capacitor → power source...

This way the ferrite takes most of the punishment off the cap!

Hopes this helps!
 
more on chokes?

Brantel,

Did you wrap the power and ground wires through the same choke, or did you use a separate one for the power and the ground?
 
Another question

I have the original duckworth for halogens. What has to be done to the reflector, mounting base of the duckworth to accomodate the Xenon?

H3?

Thanks

Bevan
 
Nothing if you had the original 55w fog lights. The H3 HID bulbs drop right in. The originals are H3C and the H3 HID's are a little different in where they focus the light but it seems like it is OK to me.

Bevan said:
I have the original duckworth for halogens. What has to be done to the reflector, mounting base of the duckworth to accomodate the Xenon?

H3?

Thanks

Bevan
Click to expand...
 
Brantel said:
The Wig-Wag mode only exacerbates this issue. If they are warm, the Wig-Wag does not bezerp each time they come on, they ignite instantly with no "bezerp" but the noise floor is still elevated.

Those that know a little about radio will understand that just because you can squelch out background noise, it is not desirable to just mask the issue since an increased or high noise threshold can cause your AGC circuit in the radio to automatically reduce the sensitivity of the receiver resulting in poor performance.

That being said, Here was the fix:

I installed a Ferrite Core as close to the HID ballast as possible. I wrapped the power and ground wires thru the core three times each. Ferrite cores act as a choke to high frequencies basically blocking them at the source before they can do any harm.

I also installed a .1uF capacitor across the power and ground wires right behind the ferrite core. This capacitor functions as a decoupling capacitor and will shunt any high frequencies that get past the ferrite core to ground before they can travel back up the power wire.

The ferrite core I used is similar to this one:

1rq79z.jpg


The results are complete elimination of the noise reflected back onto the aircraft's systems. No noticable noise floor increase, no Dynon DSAB dropouts!!! Could not even tell I had switched them on and the Wig-Wag only results in some very slight clicks over the intercom.
Click to expand...


Hi,
Did you end up running a dedicated ground for these or you are still using the airframe as the ground.

A great report and I am planning on converting mine to HID and wondering if I will need to run a new wire for ground?!?!?
 
I reused the airframe ground. Just make sure you run that wire thru the ferrite along with the power lead.
 
Brantel said:
That being said, Here was the fix:

I also installed a .1uF capacitor across the power and ground wires right behind the ferrite core. This capacitor functions as a decoupling capacitor and will shunt any high frequencies that get past the ferrite core to ground before they can travel back up the power wire.

The ferrite core I used is similar to this one:

1rq79z.jpg


The results are complete elimination of the noise reflected back onto the aircraft's systems. No noticable noise floor increase, no Dynon DSAB dropouts!!! Could not even tell I had switched them on and the Wig-Wag only results in some very slight clicks over the intercom.
Click to expand...

Do you know what/where you got the capacitor and if it has to be a 12v? I looked and found many .1uF capacitor but they are for much higher voltage and not sure if that matters.

Thanks in advance
 
They sell em at Radio Shack. I used a non polarized polyester capacitor. As long as it has a voltage rating greater than 14v you will be fine. Higher is OK.
 
I finally got to install my new HID and position lights. Although I am still experincing a bit of RF noise but it is hardly noticeable and better then my old halogen light, but much brighter.

here are some pix of them.

DSC_6142 by bavafa1, on Flickr

DSC_6139 by bavafa1, on Flickr
 
Bavafa said:
I finally got to install my new HID and position lights. Although I am still experincing a bit of RF noise but it is hardly noticeable and better then my old halogen light, but much brighter.

here are some pix of them.

DSC_6142 by bavafa1, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Nice. Where did you get the HID's?
 
H4 bulb

My brother has an H4 bulb conversion kit that he doesnt need. Would this kit work with the duckworth set?
 
These are automotive projectors that you can find them on e-bay or other on-line automotive stores. You can get them as inexpensive (used) or new with different type shroud and match them with any HID kit brand you like

If you are willing to spend a bit more, which I did, I got the Morimoto HID & projectors which based on my research are very reliable and good and I am very happy with the light output and overall performance.

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=221

The HID kit do produce some RF noise but overall less then my pervious halogen light. Initially I get a burst of noise that last 1-2 seconds and then quite down.

As for the NAV light, they are 5050 SMD and so far very happy with its performance. Based on my calculation, they exceed FAA regulation regarding lumens output, inexpensive and zero noise. I have dropped them, pushed them, squeezed them and no trouble so far and best of all they are cheap.

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=221
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top