The Hatfield's and the McCoy's

We have an old fashioned feud building here in middle Georgia...

I (and at least one other VAF member) have bought a lot in a new airpark development. It is named Plane Living Skypark. We both have one acre lots on a 2940' grass runway and are excited at the prospect of building our new homes/hangars in the next couple of years. However, we are having neighbor problems. No, it is not the typical non-aviator types. This neighbor problem is with another pilot. The other pilot has a hangar and his own grass strip right next to the one for our new development. By right next to, I mean probably less than 5 feet apart. So, picture two parallel grass strips separated by 5 feet.

The new airpark has about 50 one acre lots (13 along the runway). Most of lots will have access to the runway one way or another.

The other pilot has been fighting this development from the beginning. However, the planning and zoning commission has approved the development and progress is being made. You would think that would be the end of it. However, it is not. This past week he went to the county commissioners to plead his case. Furthermore, I just saw that there was apparently a local TV news story this past week about it. Two of the commissioners said they sympathize with him but there is nothing they can legally do. They said they will try to negotiate a settlement between the two parties (whatever that means).

He is claiming that the situation is unsafe. Here are his "concerns":
? Uncontrolled airspace because a radio frequency for communication isn't assigned to the airstrips. (Doesn't mean we can't have one)
? A substantial increase in airplane traffic. (an airpark plus one)
? Visitors flying into the area may not be familiar with where they are suppose to land, which could cause accidents, particularly in bad weather. (private airstrip, guests will be informed; no instrument approach, land at nearby public airport if weather is bad)
? There are a lot of student pilots who fly in the area. (there are a few, but they already have to be taught how to watch for other traffic)
? There are already six airports within five miles of each other. (only one is a public airport; the others have 1 to approximately 15 airplanes based at them)
? Many residents are opposed to the neighborhood because of safety concerns. (isn't this always the case; area is very sparsely populated; most of the area is pecan and peach groves)

The developer is of course saying the situation is perfectly safe. I agree. If I thought it wasn't, I wouldn't have put a deposit on the lot. All that is required is a little common courtesy (radio calls using an agreed upon CTAF; likely the one for the nearby public airport). It is a private strip and any guests could easily be informed as to the proper proceedures.

Since the guys argument is so irrational, my guess is he has some hidden agenda. It may be that he is loosing his view of an empty field (from his hangar not his home). The airpark has strict covenants, though. Homes must be brick, stone, or stucco and the hangar must match the home. No hangars only. I suspect most of the homes will be in the $300K to $500K range.

My question to the group... Do any of you know of similar situations (two private airstrips located close to one another) that operate safely on a day-in day-out basis? Even though there is nothing legally he can do, I believe we need to fight the negative publicity campaign he is conducting.

Thanks,

My Opinion

In my opinion, which isn't worth much, I think the developer of your park is guilty of being very inconsiderate at a minimum. I cannot imagine what on earth would make him/her think it is alright to encroach on the other strip like this.

I mean come on, how would anyone feel if another party comes in and builds a strip 5 feet from an existing strip? The feelings this guy is having are probably pretty similar to those any existing owner has when a city comes in and declares "eminant domain."

I really think this shows poor judgement on the part of your developer and I can see where this situation could get really ugly. If the owners of the existing strip have any kind of money and/or clout with the local government, this could get tied up in court and/or politics for a long time and you may never be able to build your dream home.

Why on earth did the developer not talk with the existing owners and offer to buy all or part of the strip, improve it, extend it, pave it, whatever. I don't understand why two strips are needed at all.

It sounds to me like your developer is acting like a bully and I don't see any good coming out of the situation. The best that can happen is that you will be living with grumpy neighbors for a considerable period of time. You summed it up pretty well and we all know how the Hatfields and the McCoys turned out.

You may want to consider finding another place to build.

Tony,

I personally have never heard of a situation quite like this, although someone else may have and hopefully will chime in. But I do have a couple questions and an observation or two.
Do these strips literally parallel each other for their entire length?
How does the strip built for the development compare to the original one? Is it longer, or wider, or in better condition, etc.?
I'm just thinking that maybe, to mollify this guy, he might be offered the use of the development's strip if it's "better" than his.
All the other concerns raised could, it seems to me, be addressed through adoption of a published CTAF, and standard pilot education. Maybe the issue of opposition by neighbors is not so easily overcome, but it sounds like that's only a problem in the other guy's mind.
Anyhow, I read an article about this conflict in the Telegraph, and it sounds as if it's a done deal, regardless of the other pilot's problems with it. It would be good if some gesture could be made toward him to make him a little more welcoming to Plane Living, but if he's determined to be a d!ck about it, there may not be much you can do. Except build and enjoy your new home, of course !
On a personal note, I'm thinking about heading over to Macon next Saturday for the Cherry Blossom Festival airshow, and I'd be interested in checking out Plane Living. How close is it to Macon, and does it have a website?
Thanks, and good luck with everything.

Ben R.
Bloomingdale, GA
RV-9A #90217
Fuselage

Runway conflict

Be careful!
I am fortunate enough to have great neighbors and no runway conflict, however I have been a board member of our aipark in North Carolina for several years, and have had to address legal issues pertaining to surrounding developments and homeowners. Our airpark was built in the middle of nowhere..but is being surrounded with upscale homebuilders seeking the country life.We are registered ,and well documented as an "airport",and have been on the sectionals(CLT 6NC8) for may years. In the surrounding area, there are many small strips...some on the charts, and some not.I have a good friend with his own strip on 130 acres, but there is another strip 3/4 of a mile away. The owner of the other strip is on the sectionals, and my friends is not...the FAA will not put my friends strip on the sectional(due to pattern overlap) without a letter of agreement from both parties...something the other owner wont do..and he doesnt even fly!.At least if you are registered and on the map you have some clout.I have had to bring an FAA pilot/plane to our strip and demonstrate to a distressed neighbor,the fact he built his house under our traffic pattern,he cannot do a thing about us flying over his house. I would be VERY leary of investing with possible lawsuits pending...and I can tell you, 50 homes/pilots/opinions and 2 strips that close will be a neighborhood political nightmare.
Good luck, be carefull.
Bill E.

Ben,
The two airstrips are parallel for their entire length and roughly in the exact same shape/quality. Our developer says that he and the other guy have known one another for years. However, things got testy when he decided to buy and develop the airpark. I don't think this is a safety issue even for the pilot that is opposed to the development. He is just using safety to try and scare people. I am not sure what his true agenda is. That being the case, I am not sure what kind of "deal" can be worked out with him. I agree that it would be nice if they could come to some agreement.

Plane Living is about 30 minutes south of Macon along I75. Take I75 south to Hwy 96 (Exit 142). Go west toward Fort Valley approximately 4.5 miles to Border's Road and take a left (there is a sign for the airpark at 96/Border's). Go half a mile and turn right on Buckeye Road. PLane Living is down on the right. (BTW, if you are coming over on I16, Hwy 96 intersects I16 just south of Macon.)


Tom,
Thanks for your comments. I do want all opinions. However, I disagree. This is nothing like eminent domain; which I agree is an often abused power of government. No one's land is being taken. His use of his property is not being restricted in any way. Sure, he may have to extend his downwind ocassionally. This is no different than you having to wait at a stop sign in your neighborhood because of increased traffic as new houses are built.

The question is how much right does one property owner have over another? I remember many years ago in Atlanta, Braves pitcher John Smoltz sued his new neighbor because the house the neighbor built cast a shadow on Smoltz's pool. Smoltz did not win, and in my opinion, ended up looking like a fool on the matter. No, I wouldn't have been happy with the situation either. However, I would recognize that my property rights end at my property lines.

I agree that two strips aren't needed. I suspect there are two because the two owners aren't getting along. The developer has said publicly that he has tried to talk to the other pilot to work out their differences but was unsuccessful. Obviously, that could mean anything. Honestly, the developer seems like a nice "good ole boy" (hey, I am from the south I can say that ). However, with me he is of course in his salesman mode. Developing is not his primary business. He has built and sold some houses in the past. But mostly, he is a farmer, not a real estate developer.


All,
Please keep the comments coming.


Thanks,

Tom Maxwell said:

In my opinion, which isn't worth much, I think the developer of your park is guilty of being very inconsiderate at a minimum. I cannot imagine what on earth would make him/her think it is alright to encroach on the other strip like this.

Click to expand...

Right on the money. Here's some poor guy who spent his hard earned money to build himself a home and an airstrip, and in comes your developer that basically just ruins it for him. How will you feel when some other developer decides to build a big building at the end of one of the runways, effectively blocking off approaches and departures from one direction?

fixnflyguy said:

Be careful!
I am fortunate enough to have great neighbors and no runway conflict, however I have been a board member of our aipark in North Carolina for several years, and have had to address legal issues pertaining to surrounding developments and homeowners. Our airpark was built in the middle of nowhere..but is being surrounded with upscale homebuilders seeking the country life.We are registered ,and well documented as an "airport",and have been on the sectionals(CLT 6NC8) for may years. In the surrounding area, there are many small strips...some on the charts, and some not.I have a good friend with his own strip on 130 acres, but there is another strip 3/4 of a mile away. The owner of the other strip is on the sectionals, and my friends is not...the FAA will not put my friends strip on the sectional(due to pattern overlap) without a letter of agreement from both parties...something the other owner wont do..and he doesnt even fly!.At least if you are registered and on the map you have some clout.I have had to bring an FAA pilot/plane to our strip and demonstrate to a distressed neighbor,the fact he built his house under our traffic pattern,he cannot do a thing about us flying over his house. I would be VERY leary of investing with possible lawsuits pending...and I can tell you, 50 homes/pilots/opinions and 2 strips that close will be a neighborhood political nightmare.
Good luck, be carefull.
Bill E.

Click to expand...

Bill is exactly correct. There is no way I would want runways side-by-side. You asking for trouble. I am very lucky. I have my two runways in the middle of 500 acres. But, there is (was) a N/S airstrip 2.2 NM N.W. of me. Before the stae of IL. and FAA would sign off on my airport I had to have a written agreement on traffic patterns for spacing. Sorry, but side-by-side runways are not a good idea.

There is nothing better than landing at "home" and walking in the house. (Hanger / house in my case) But this sounds like nothing but trouble.

Sorry,

jcoloccia said:

Right on the money. Here's some poor guy who spent his hard earned money to build himself a home and an airstrip, and in comes your developer that basically just ruins it for him. How will you feel when some other developer decides to build a big building at the end of one of the runways, effectively blocking off approaches and departures from one direction?

Click to expand...

John,
He doesn't have a home there. Only a hangar. Actually two, one enclosed and one open.
How is this ruining it for him??? The use of his airstrip is not being impeded in any way. Please explain.

Thanks,

As to how this could be a problem for him...

1) Overlapping patterns. People are looking for traffic from the air-park's strip, and don't see him.

2) Inattentive transients/visitors mistakenly landing on his strip.

3) Now there is a lot more traffic in the pattern for his strip.

All of these things can be addressed, but all of them are at his detriment or at least *could* be at his detriment. None of them improve the utility, safety, or enjoyment of his airstrip.

side-by-side runways

Maybe the simplest solution is to have one pattern for both runways and on final, one would simply off-set to the left or right a few feet to land on the correct patch of grass.

I say this because it doesn't sound too different from the 2600x200' grass runway (0C2) where I learned to fly -- there we essentially had three runways. When landing to the west, on the left side we had a glider and tow-plane hooked up waiting to launch, on the right side we had a place for a glider to land, and in the center, the twin-otter that just dropped the jumpers could land. We all flew the same rectangular pattern and it worked fine.

Just another 2 cents...

-Jim

compromise, merge, or no deal

Oh good grief. MERGE the two runways into one big one, offer shared use of it, and both parties benefit from increased width, and probably more $$ resources to improve and maintain it over the long term via association dues.

Otherwise, if you can't meet in the middle (so to speak), bail on the deal and look elsewhere. Feuds at an airpark can get nasty. We've been battling with one at our airpark longer than I've lived there. Goes to court by end of '06, we hope! All it takes is ONE fly in the ointment to foul up a most wonderful way of life. Get all parties on board, signed, in writing with witnesses and/or...dare I say....*gulp* attorneys....and make nice nice. Airplane people are usually great people, but they can be stubborn. Yes, yes they can. Why? because I SAID SO!!

Jim's right, this is how I learned to fly as well. There's nothing dangerous at all as long as everyone is on the same page.

That doesn't sound like this is the case in this instance. I would try to get along with the guy. From just reading the post it looks like you are taking the defensive stance. You can catch more flys with honey. Someone needs to find out just what the guy wants. Perhaps a deed to runway rights for life will suffice (legally worded to just him, can't be sold or transfered of course). If the runways really are 5 feet apart, what would be wrong with him putting in a 10 foot high chain link security fence, I mean it is his property right, he can do with it what he wants right? Remember what happened in Chicago and that was a public airport maintained with your taxdollars!

I totally get where he is coming from, he had his nice little place and you guys come in and ruin it for him. Now it's up to you (if you are going to live there) and the developer to make him happy or at least accept the airpark. Something will appease him, you just have to find what it is.

Apatti, you said "I would recognize that my property rights end at my property lines." Making the neighbors happy might not be so simple, especially if he is already stirring them up. You guys come in with your airplanes making all that noise out in the country. Might want to start a positive media campaign of some sorts. The neighbors might have the same opinion and might not want to deal with the noise, traffic, congestion, airplane parts falling on their houses or whatever. You might hear things such as "I heard you guys will have those big jets coming and going day and night, we don't want that stuff around here". Just be prepared, depending on his political clout in that county just because what you are doing is legal doesn't mean you will be able to do it. There was an airport in Florida dealing with these issues, I just can't remember the name right now.

Like the others have said, this could get ugly. Right now you really haven't got a lot on an airpark just a lot in the country. If it doesn't get solved that's what you may end up with as well. If you are a member of the EAA or AOPA, they might be able to give you some guidance/advice.

Forgot to ask, is the runway active now?

Good luck,
Rat

apatti said:

John,
He doesn't have a home there. Only a hangar. Actually two, one enclosed and one open.
How is this ruining it for him??? The use of his airstrip is not being impeded in any way. Please explain.

Thanks,

Click to expand...

You have to see it from his point of view. It's like someone coming in and blocking your view, or putting up a big tree so your pool doesn't get any sunlight anymore, etc etc. He had it all to himself and now he won't anymore. Your developper is very foolish, I'm afraid, as he should have had all of this worked out well in advance but he probably figured he'd just strongarm this dude if they ran into any problems. I guess the guy's more ornery than anyone figured

On the other hand, I can see it from your devloper's point of view that just because some guy decides to randomly build a runway on his property doesn't mean that everyone around him has to conform to his view of the world.

Two reasonable people should be able to sit in a room and work this out. It will probably cost your developper some cash in the form of a payoff. Possibly they could work out a deal where the gentleman permanantly leases the runway to your development and you guys just go ahead a build a really wide runway, with the understanding that your development is responsible for all of the upkeep. This will probably get him a nicer runway with free maintenance. Heck...I'd take that deal.

John,
I have just had this happen to me. I bought my current house back in August 2005. I had a great view out my second story office. I could see for miles. I like to watch thunderstorms and that view was perfect. However, a builder just put up a 4100 sqft two story house just across the street and ruined the view. Now all I see is brick and shingles. Was I dissappointed? Absolutely. Am I trying to bully the builder into giving me something for having ruined my view. Absolutely not! It was his property. If I wanted to control what was done on that lot, I should have purchased it myself.

I am really surprised at how quickly people have been to judge the airpark developer and cut slack to the "other pilot" in my story. I wonder if it would have made a difference if I had mentioned that the developer is also a pilot. I kind of doubt it. Developers have reputations almost as bad as used car salesmen these days. Don't get me wrong, I find the behavior of many developers distasteful. My personal favorite is when they go in and create an upscale area with large homes and large lots (maybe even a really nice golf course). Then, once most of the homes are sold, they open up phase two - condos and appartments and other high density residential housing. Once again, though, it my responsibility as the buyer to investigate how the surrounding land has been zoned and who owns it and determine for myself if future development will "ruin" my use of the property I am considering buying.

Yes, I understand the difference between legal and practical. In this case I do hope something can be worked out with the other pilot. I have no problem with combining the runways and/or working out a pattern arrangement. I don't think the guy should get any cash, but that is the developer's call not mine. The other guy can do pretty much anything he wants with his property. Our subdivision on the other hand has some pretty significant covenants that will make and keep it very nice. He can put up trailers if he wants. BTW, I think our builder paid about $10K per acre. So I suspect the other guy (who has been there longer) paid a lot less than that. The lots are going for an average $45K per acre and the few runway lots that are left are up to $60K. It looks to me that the other guy has already gotten a huge increase in land value.

As for problems with the neighbors... that is not a real issue. The area is very sparsely populated. He has managed to stir up some of the local pilots. I was at an EAA meeting back when I just moved here and didn't know anyone or anything about the airpark. He made a brief speech about the new airpark and asked people to sign his petition against it. It was the classic herd mentality. I, of course, didn't sign. But several folks did.

The assumption behind several of the posts is "two reasonable people should be able to come to an agreement". I don't believe we have that. If we did things would have been worked out long before now.