Notched HS 1204 Ribs?

I found that the bigger hole in all but one HS1204 ribs (Stabilator Ribs) have notches at random places at the periphery of the hole.
See a picture here: http://tiny.cc/2dbl2
Has anybody seen something like that? It looks like a defect and I'm afraid it could create a crack under stress.

WingedFrog said:

I found that the bigger hole in all but one HS1204 ribs (Stabilator Ribs) have notches at random places at the periphery of the hole.
See a picture here: http://tiny.cc/2dbl2
Has anybody seen something like that? It looks like a defect and I'm afraid it could create a crack under stress.

Click to expand...

Yes I had the same thing on two of my ribs see 09-06-step 2 on my site.
I opened the holes enough to remove the holes and put the ribs near the outside end of the stabilator as there is less moment the farther the load is out.

Mr Frog
What is your kit Number

Joe Dallas
Kit # 400
www.joesrv12.com

My Kit number is in my signature: 120395. Your kit is close enough to assume that it's due to something that happened sometime in the manufacturing process.
Now that it's confirmed it's a defect, I will call VANs and ask them to send a replacement. Some notches in my case are too deep to be removed by enlarging the hole.

Van's had some problems with the tools that make the ribs that caused cracks in the lightning holes so instead of making new perfect ribs they salvaged the ribs with defects by removing the cracks. Good luck with replacements, they think that the ribs you have are just fine.

Best regards,
Vern

Good to know!

Thanks Vern for the info. I sent an email to Van's support asking them for advice. If they confirm that the ribs are OK, I have no problem, after all they are the designers and should know better than I do. Given the potential liability, I doubt they would give an A OK at the risk of safety just to save money...
But what to I know?

Please

Please let us know what Van's tells you.

I'm not an experienced builder or designer but if those were in my kit and Van's said that they were ok, I'd order replacements anyway.

I don't think that Van's designers meant those semi circles to be included in the build. Why accept anything less than a perfect kit? It's your build - what will you accept? Those parts don't cost much anyway.

To me, it's only a question of who pays for the replacements.

Please let us know what Van's tells you

I agree with Ed.
The holes I had were in the front hole and only in two ribs and not as deep as the ones in your photos.
I used a drum sander to open the holes to remove the weak in plain. ( The saw cut in a sidewalk )
The saw cut is where the designers intend the sidewalk to crack.
I have a structural engineering background.
Your ribs are probably still structurally sound.

I agree with Ed I would replace them even if I hade to pay for them.
Your buiding a $100,000 + Airplane.

Please let us know what Van's tells you
Thanks
Joe Dallas
www.joesrv12.com

VAN: Perfectly Acceptable Repair

Called VAN this morning, they confirmed that this was a repair they made following defect of the machine punching holes. Said that their engineers looked at the repairs and said they were "perfectly acceptable repairs"...
... Whatever this means
I have enough to do with my build and will not throw a tantrum on this. After all there are lots of other issues along the build where I will have to take VAN's on their words.
I nevertheless asked them for an answer in writing: trust but verify
And now I have to debur these #!?*~ holes!

I don' agree and it's time to speak up and advocate for you

So Van's says that they are ok. You paid for a perfect kit - right - nothing about any 'repaired parts' in any of the correspondence.

I'd order new parts, pay for them myself and be done with it. It's no different from the rudder skin that I bent a little - others might not see the bent part but I would every time I pre-flight. I ordered a new part.

This is a structural part - right? If so, then if should be as per the plans - not 'repaired'. Maybe you should 'repair' their repair - but why when you can get a 'non-repaired' rib from Van's?

Sometimes tragic accidents happen not as the result of 'one little thing that went wrong' but as the result of 'several accumulated things that wet wrong'. To me, you are accepting 'strike one' when you have the opportunity to eliminate 'strike one'. That is how I see it and I don't mean to be critical of you - it's just how I see it.

And yeah, I think that since you have communicated to Van's about your concerns, the right thing for them to do was to have sent you replacement parts with no flaws 'or repairs' and at no costs to you. And I still think that they should do that - it's called good customer service.

I can't believe that Van's didn't just send replacement parts - I don't care what the engineers said.

Replacing the 'repaired parts' or even shipping them in the first place should be a non-issue. Look at it this way, if you had your choice of a perfect part or a repaired part, which one would you choose. Sorry Van's but as I see it, this time, you guys dropped the ball

I don' agree -

So Van's says that they are ok. You paid for a perfect kit - right - nothing about any 'repaired parts' in any of the correspondence.

It's sorry that Van's even shipped less that perfect parts. Repaired and acceptable or not, why did they ship them? - $$$? How much money did they save? No matter what the engineers said, this is not a perfect part and a perfect part is what you paid for

I'd order new parts, pay for them myself and be done with it. It's no different from the rudder skin that I bent a little - others might not see the bent part but I would every time I pre-flight. I ordered a new part.

One of the really nice things about building your own airplane is that you have control of what does and does not go into it. You are in charge,

These ribs are structural parts - right? If so, in my opinion, then the parts should be as per the plans - not 'repaired'. Maybe you should 'repair' their repair - but why when you can get a 'non-repaired' rib from Van's?

Sometimes tragic accidents happen not as the result of 'one little thing that went wrong' but as the result of 'several accumulated things that wet wrong'. To me, you are accepting 'strike one' when you have the opportunity to eliminate 'strike one'. That is how I see it and I don't mean to be critical of you - it's just how I see it.

And yeah, I think that since you have communicated to Van's about your concerns, the right thing for them to do was to have sent you replacement parts with no flaws 'or repairs' and at no costs to you. And I still think that they should do that - it's called good customer service.

I can't believe that Van's didn't just send replacement parts - I don't care what the engineers said.

Replacing the 'repaired parts' or even shipping them in the first place should be a non-issue. Look at it this way, if you had your choice of a perfect part or a repaired part, which one would you choose? Sorry Van's, I love you guys and gals but as I see it, this time, you dropped the ball. That's my opinion.

Quality control

Again I agree with Ed
I would pack them up and send them back with a note
telling them that you’re sorry but I don’t feel comfortable installing them in my plane. Please send me a good set a bill me for what you think is fair.
This could affect your resale
I would not want to buy a Plane with those Parts.

I just called and talked to gus at vans
this happens to about 10% of the Ribs and it is a cost thing
They are structurally sound It is a aesthetic Issue.
The cost of the ribs is about $5.50 each
Your ribs are ok but I still would send them back


Joe Dallas
www.joesrv12.com

Seconds

Their called seconds. NOT first Quality. In America we pay top price for first quality. Parts with defects are called seconds. Would you buy a washing machine with chipped enamel on the front at full price even though it does not affect the operation of the machine? If Van's wants to sell repaired parts disclose it and discount it. I'm sure someone would take the parts at a discount. After all they are OK arn't they?

joedallas said:

The cost of the ribs is about $550 each

Click to expand...

This can't be right!

I'm working on the vert stab at the moment, but checked and noticed that one of my HS-1204 ribs has a similar deep notch in the inner edge of the larger rib cutout.

Not sure whether I'll have it replaced, although I accept the argument that we're entitled to defect-free components, even if the defect is not visible and will have no detrimental effect.

VAN's would not be saying these ribs were structurally OK if they weren't (unlike the cracks in the vertical indentations in some of the wing ribs that builders were reporting a while back, and which needed to be replaced).

Hmmm, our group saw the cracks in the lightening holes, and made contact with Vans to replace. The new ones has the notches in, basically the crack is nibbled out. If I had known they were going to send me nibbled ribs, I would have just filed out the crack on the originals. I think the invoice price was $5.50 each not $550. They replaced for free, but I had to pay import tax on it.

If you see it in person you will notice the crack is only 1/8 to 1/4 in length in the lightning hole, nothing serious like the previous wing nose rib story we had. Take a round needle file and take it out and deburr the area. No need to loose sleep over it or to wait for replacement parts here, the fix takes 30seconds...Build on, focus on the big important things...

My 2 cents

Regards
Rudi

RudiGreyling said:

No need to loose sleep over it or to wait for replacement parts here, the fix takes 30seconds...Build on, focus on the big important things...
Rudi

Click to expand...

My feeling too. Having looked at it again, I don't think it's worth worrying about, and I'm not going to the trouble of replacing it if VAN's says it's not necessary. If that turns out to be the worst `feature' in this plane, then I'll be more than happy.

To conclude

First, thanks fellow builders for your feedback. I am sure it helped clarify the issue for other builders and hopefully will help VAN's see the light.
As far as I am concerned, my conclusion is that I have to trust VAN's on the safety issue or else there is no point continuing to build my RV-12. However VAN's is playing with its reputation by delivering parts that have been repaired and therefore are "second grade" as a fellow builder said. As much as we all love VAN's, we certainly are not happy to see them take this road.

... and four years later, VANs sees the light!


Minor cracks in HS-1204 Fwd Inbd Rib