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Flap Motor works intermittently

Mark Cigal

Mark Cigal

Active Member
Sponsor
Greetings fellow aviators ! I've been having problems with my flap motor.
Every once in a while the flaps will not move up or down. The problem can
always be fixed by grabbing one of the flaps and shaking it, then the motor
starts working again. I've taken apart the motor and inspected for any
contamination (ie grease) and there is none. The brushes were, however
quite dirty. After cleaning them the motor works fine for a few days then
becomes intermittent again. Any ideas on how to fix this ? A new motor is
$280.00 ! Mark Cigal N617MC
 
A few years back, VAN's had a write up in the RVator about flap motors that were giving problems. They were a particular lot and I believe that they had been assembled with too much grease in the housing. The fix was to take them apart and clean them. I don't have it in front of me, but if you can't find the article, I can dig it up for you.
 
I had a similiar problem - I found that the wires to the connector would vibrate if not properly secured, causing several strands to break. Eventually the motor would not run in either direction.
 
Pittman Motors

I had the same problem a couple years ago. I did some research and found www.clickautomation.com. They will sell you a brand new motor for around $65.00. I believe the part number is: 9234S004.
Van isn't the only palce to get replacement parts.

Tom Emery N193RV
WPA RV BUILDERS
 
Followup on flap motor problems

Thanks for your replies... as usual the info was very helpful. Here's what I
found. Upon disassembly (for the 3rd time) I found the brushes to be very
dirty after only a few actuations. Further inspection showed the motor to
be drawing quite a bit of amps. I followed the procedure outlined by Vans
and cleaned again very well. I then looked for binding of some sort and found
that there were too many spacer washers in the assembly. I removed two,
reassembled and ran it on the bench for about two hours, starting with a very
low current supply to break it in so to speak. It is now functioning fine with
little or no buiildup on the brushes. Hopefully I've dodged the buy a new one
bullet ! However If I need one I'll use clickautomation.com Thanks Tom !!
Now, back to flying... I gotta practice some landings USING flaps !! Mark
 
very timely thread, I was just about to scream!

took it apart, cleaned and all is well.

Thanks Again everybody.

Expect to get my 40 done today :eek: off the the airport
 
Flap Motor Failure

Mine crapped out on Saturday (3/11/06) with 70 hours on the airplane. Pulled the flap motor from the plane and took it over to my favorite RV-8 mechanic, Danny King. Took the top (bottom) off the motor, found a lot of grease on the brushes and commutator. Cleaned it, reassembled and tested it. Took about 30 minutes max. Back in the airplane and it works fine.

Chris
 
The flap motor brushes have a very high contianment off copper in them,which tends to sit on the commutator,so after 200 hours they are worn out,I have ordered some new from a specality shop,but if you can get a new motor for 65$ it may not be economical,I have cleaned my commutator twice and it will go again for xx hours

j?rn m?ller
RV8 208 hours
 
Flap motor gears stripped

I had a flap system failure last week. Today I pulled the flap motor assembly and discovered the worm gear and pinion to be stripped. Yikes! $280 to replace.

I'm pondering why this happened. The flaps have a free wheeling run-out mechanism so that if you leave the motor running, it should not grind the gears.

I did notice that the pivot in the flap motor assembly was binding a fair amount, creating a lot of friction... perhaps that's the cause.

Maybe even forgetting to retract the flaps below Vfe once or twice was the problem, but I don't think this would cause this.

The worm gear on the motor shaft was quite worn down, indicating that it was soft. The pinion on the extension arm was not as bad, but still showed damage. Normally, you'd expect the gears would hold up better than this.

Anyone else had this happen?

Vern Little
 
Flap motor current draw

Does anybody know how much current the flap motor draws under normal load?

Thanks
Still building
 
flap motor

I have not heard lately of problems with the flap motors. I wonder if the problems are still occuring but not being reported? I am about to install and wire the flap motor in my 8A. The motor I have was made be Motion Systems, Inc. in May 1998.

The info from Vans indicates that the problem was due to a bad batch of Motion Systems motors they recieved just before they switched to their own in 2002.

Does anyone know if the problem was indeed limited to one batch of motors? Can anyone who has a Motion Systems flap motor made around 1998 advise if they have had problems with it?

I am also wondering if I should disassemble the flap motor now, before I install it, and remove "access" grease. Of course, that opens the question to how much grease is "access" and how much should be left.

Any info would be appreciated.
 
Add me to the club!

This afternoon, after a KBMI/KCHA/KJYL flight, my flap motor went on strike upon entering the pattern at KJYL. Not my best landing, but no teeth broken either. This was the last flight prior to my first condition inspection. I'll add it to the squawk list. Anyone wonder why Vans has not replaced our bad motors after admiting to having a bad batch, changing vendors and issuing repair "instructions"? I'm calling in the AM to ask these questions. Any other suggestions are appreciated.
 
flap motor

Robbie,

Was yours a Motion Systems motor or a Vans? Do you know if it was in the bad batch around 2002?

Thanks,

Tony
 
Flap Motor, RV7

A few days ago, at about 300 hours, my flaps failed in the up position. Ran the problem down to be the motor. Mine is the newer assembly from Van's with the Pittman Motor.

Has anyone changed the motor with the one from clickautomation.com that
Tom Emery referenced. The price is listed at $76., but, I can't figure out how the worm gear is attached to the shaft of the motor.

Thanks,
Happy New Year to you all..
Ed


Update on my flap motor:
After talking to Gus at Van's, he gave me the name and phone number for the supplier of the flap assembly for the RV7, I think the RV6, RV7, RV8 and RV9 are all the same unit.
Usher Precision Manufactoring
www.usherprecision.com
Dean Trump
503-992-0015

I bought a new motor from them, that has the worm gear attached.
Price $110 plus shipping.

It seems to be working fine, but, I've only flown the airplane about 1 hour
since installation.

Regards,
Ed
 
Last edited:
Flap motor blues -- part 3

tomsrv said:
I had the same problem a couple years ago. I did some research and found www.clickautomation.com. They will sell you a brand new motor for around $65.00. I believe the part number is: 9234S004.
Van isn't the only palce to get replacement parts.

Tom Emery N193RV
WPA RV BUILDERS
Click to expand...

Hey guys, I've looked at the link above but I'm stymied as to which motor is the one I need. I tried typing the "9234S004" in the site's search function and got a "could not match" answer.

Anybody know the correct part number or spec for the motor to order?

Mine just quit for the third time and I'm about to fly flaps up forever just to avoid the aggravation. Thanks in advance.

Chris
 
#2 has failed!!

The second flap moter I've had in my plane has now failed. I believe both were '98 vintage Motion Systems units. I tried the clean and reassemble method on the first one, no joy, it failed again. Replaced it with an extra motor a friend had, it has now failed. I too would be interested in any feedback from someone who has tried the clickautomation unit.
Here's the link to the actual motor.

www.clickautomation.com/products/index.php?func=show&pid=343&cid=143

I think the question has been asked, How do you / how difficult is it to swap the gear??
 
Last edited:
Looks like a good number new price $76.26.

9000 Series:
Motor only. 12 volt winding


Motor only
Rated voltage: 12 VDC
6.1 oz-in continuous torque
41.3 oz-in peak torque
No load speed 6,151 rpm
Torque constant (Kt) = 2.58 oz-in / amp
Voltage constant (Ke) = 1.91 volts / krpm
Resistance (R) = 0.83 ohms
Inductance (I) = 0.63 mh
Length (motor only) = 2.4
 
Flap Motor Problems

With only 2 hours on my 7A I began to have intermittent flap operation problems. Trying to maintain a maximum 40 deg flap movement, my flap motor did not free wheel at the "flaps up" position. This caused the motor to overheat on occassion. After taking the motor apart, I found the brushes to be sticking in the brush holder assembly. I believe this to be the cause of the intermittent operation. Maybe overheating the motor caused the brush holder assembly to distort enough to prevent the brushed from moving toward the motor armature when the brushed wear.

Anyway, I was able to buy a brushholder assembly ($15.00) from click automation. The replacement took only a few minutes with the flap motor assembly on the work bench. After talking with Vans, I correct my installation mistake. I hope this informaton is helpful to those of you suffering from similar flap motor symptoms.

Gary Slatt RV7A
N438GS Flying 4.5 hours
 
Flap Motor with worm gear

I added this info to my earlier post, but am repeating it here to get it to the bottom of the thread.....

Update on my flap motor:
After talking to Gus at Van's, he gave me the name and phone number for the supplier of the flap assembly for the RV7, I think the RV6, RV7, RV8 and RV9 are all the same unit.
Usher Precision Manufactoring
www.usherprecision.com
Dean Trump
503-992-0015

I bought a new motor from them, that has the worm gear attached.
Price $110 plus shipping.

It seems to be working fine, but, I've only flown the airplane about 1 hour
since installation.

Regards,
Ed
 
#2 Flap Motor Update

As an update to my earlier post, I was able to fix flap motor #2. It was simply a partially broken ground wire going into the brush assembly, not easy to find as it did operate intermidently. I did disassembe the motor anyway, found no grease fouling the motor. This motor is a 1998 vintage I believe. The first motor that failed due to grease contamination was made sometime in 2000.
 
Brush Springs

Does anyone have a picture of the spring location with respect to the brushes for the flap motor. Does that spring go into the slot first, then the brush? I disassembled mine and I'm not sure it's going back the way it should. Darn motor worked out of the box a couple years ago, but darned if will work now (and I'm just installing it for good). And I did have voltage to the motor.

Jim
 
My RV6A has manual flaps. And after 24 years of pulling on a johnson bar (flap bar) in my Piper Warrior, I think manual flaps are great!!! K.I.S!! Altered mine a bit, and now they can be set in one second from one notch to full without pushing a button. no motors no wires no fuses no not work!!!! You always know where they are. I think Van gave up too soon on manual flaps for the 6. I will send my mods to Van's, maybe he will publish them in the RVaitor. Remember, if they ever bind up or a link fails, you will know right away, and you can adjust for it. The motor will just tear things up. You won't feal it......
 
I wish that my -8 could be set up with manual flaps. I will miss the Warrior's Johnson bar...there is something to be said about the feedback that such an arrangement gives.
 
Does that spring go into the slot first, then the brush?

Spring does go in the slot first, then the brush. I wish I had a picture, but I don't, sorry.There's an indention behind the brushes, on the inside of the horseshoe. Fold a piece of cardboard to fit into these indentions to hold the springs and brushes in place while you slide the assembly onto the armature. Once in place, remove the cardboard and install the back motor case.
Hope this helps, probably as clear as mud!!
Good luck!
 
another greaser...

My flap motor's brushes and armature fouled with grease too, resulting in a non-event no flap landing. I was considering just changing to the newer motor style. Does anyone have experience trying to install the newer motor to the gearbox that came with my vintage 2001 unit? BTW, I too considered just joining the "leave the flaps up" club, except for the getting in and out part...it sure makes it more convenient for the flaps to be down. One of you hotshot engineers needs to design a clever manual flap system for the 7/8/9 and make some money selling it to us. I'd buy it.
 
Motor Spacers

I reviewed the Van's .pdf for flap motor maintenance and seem to have the brushes back in place but have 2 questions:

1) What order do the spacers on the end of the spindle go in? There are two thin stainless and two thicker black spacers but I didn't catch the order they came out. I understand this is somewhat important.

2) When checking continuity for the brushes, it looks like the ground connects to both brushes? Is this correct?

Thanks for any clarification here!

Jim
 
Replacement motor

Bob Brown said:
... Does anyone have experience trying to install the newer motor to the gearbox that came with my vintage 2001 unit?
Click to expand...

Bob:

I bought the new motor from:

Usher Precision
(503) 992-0015
ask for Dean Trump

Cost was $110 plus SH and includes the worm gear. He will ask you to verify that you have the Motion Systems motor. The replacement unit is not Motion Systems but a Pittman so Dean won't guarantee it will work, but so far no one has reported any problems. My old motor was made in 1998.

Makes sense to me to spend the extra $ to get the worm gear already mounted. That way it took only about five minutes to replace the unit. I only have about 10 flight hours on it so far, but it has worked fine.

Hope this helps.

Chris
 
MOONEY had retractable landing gear that was so reliable that the FAA did not require a back-up system.......... THEY WERE MANUAL!!!!
 
Brush Assembly

garys said:
Anyway, I was able to buy a brushholder assembly ($15.00) from click automation. The replacement took only a few minutes with the flap motor assembly on the work bench. After talking with Vans, I correct my installation mistake. I hope this informaton is helpful to those of you suffering from similar flap motor symptoms.

Gary Slatt RV7A
N438GS Flying 4.5 hours
Click to expand...


I just got off the phone with John at Clickautomation, and ordered two brush assemblies for $15 each (I figured that with all of the experiences of everyone here, it might pay to have an extra....and another extra....). The part number he quoted me for the assembly was "86-274-4", and he was great to talk with. I told him that he might start getting a lot more calls from a bunch of RV'ers..... :rolleyes:

When I cleaned up my brushes the other day, they looked to be worn unevenly. I didn't see any significant grease contamination as mentioned by others, so maybe I have a later unit. With 440 hours on the airplane and motor assembly - I might just have worn them down.

This is a GREAT thread!

Paul
 
Hmmmm....

OK, I got a box in the mail today from Clickautopmation with a set of brushes which certainly will work, but don't look like what was in the motor originally. Much simpler actually. Basically, it is two "leaf springs" with the brushes tacked on the end. Their quality looks a bit dubious, but I know they will actually work in the motor because of an interesting find i made at our local electronic surplus house.

I was rummaging through the bins at the Electronic Parts Outlet, and came across the "motor" aisle. What did I spot, but a box of Pittman motors - exactly the same size as the ones in our flap actuators. these are surplus - some used, some new....cost each" $3.45 !!! The only problem? They are 24 volt. Never one to pass up a ridiculous deal, I bought two for the sole purpose of dissection - and found the same type of brush assembly as I got in the mail from Clickautomation today.....

I hooked up the motors to my 12 volt power supply in my home shop this evening, and they run great....but I am guessing that they will have either a torque or speed penalty. (OK, I'll admit it...my one EE class was a LONG time ago - when you run a DC motor on half it's voltage, do you get half the torque, half the speed, or ???).

All of this is inconsequential at this point, as my cleaned up motor is running fine right now...but I know it won't last.

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
OK, I got a box in the mail today from Clickautopmation with a set of brushes which certainly will work, but don't look like what was in the motor originally. Much simpler actually. Basically, it is two "leaf springs" with the brushes tacked on the end. Their quality looks a bit dubious, but I know they will actually work in the motor because of an interesting find i made at our local electronic surplus house.

I was rummaging through the bins at the Electronic Parts Outlet, and came across the "motor" aisle. What did I spot, but a box of Pittman motors - exactly the same size as the ones in our flap actuators. these are surplus - some used, some new....cost each" $3.45 !!! The only problem? They are 24 volt. Never one to pass up a ridiculous deal, I bought two for the sole purpose of dissection - and found the same type of brush assembly as I got in the mail from Clickautomation today.....

I hooked up the motors to my 12 volt power supply in my home shop this evening, and they run great....but I am guessing that they will have either a torque or speed penalty. (OK, I'll admit it...my one EE class was a LONG time ago - when you run a DC motor on half it's voltage, do you get half the torque, half the speed, or ???).

All of this is inconsequential at this point, as my cleaned up motor is running fine right now...but I know it won't last.

Paul
Click to expand...

Not positive but I think it will just draw twice the amps. Maybe won't last as long and/or will just require bigger wire, which you already have because your current flap motor is 12V. If no EE's chime in first I will check with one at work tomorrow. Speed penalty makes sense though. :confused:
 
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