Tom Maxwell
Well Known Member
If you are like me and a first time or potential builder, you may be ignorant of what it takes to build a quality RV. I feel I am technical in nature and I have experience in woodworking so I figured I should be able to build an RV kit. But there was still some doubt in my mind. "Now what? Just read the book and look at the drawings! But how much deburring is enough? How much is too much? Should I prime, not prime? Do I jig or not jig? Can I really do this." I started looking at workshops.
The 2 day workshops looked pretty good. For roughly $500 I could travel to a city and in two days learn about building and come back with a practice project. I then looked at Alexander Technical Institute in Griffin Georgia and found out that for $1600 I could attend a 7 day tailkit program and actually build my own tailkit. "In 7 days? Is that possible? No way! Heck, even if I can only get the horizontal or vertical stabilizer completed I will at least be partway through my tailkit and have something definitive to show for my efforts."
I left on Sunday 2/5 and completed the 800 mile drive from Houston to Griffin in just under 13 hours. I got a hotel for the night and started the class Monday morning. I just returnd home (2/12) and am pleased to report that I am more than satisfied with the program and I have a 95% complete tailkit (connecting hardware, weights, and fiberglass outstanding) and the program was more than I hoped for. Yes these forums are great and there is no lack of willingness to share information. But nothing can compare to building your own tailkit under the eyes and guideance of instructors who have done it over 200 times.
All I can say is yes Virginia it is possible to build a tailkit in 7 days, including priming. The instructors are awesome! Jacob, a very fine young man, is an outstanding communicator and a great instructor. He knows every nook and cranny of the tailkit and it is obvious that the program is very well thought out. Jacob does an excellent job of assisting builders and making sure that the builder understands what is happening and why. Mike, the other instructor, is an A&P for Delta Airlines and is an RV8 builder. He knows more about construction standards and acceptable and unacceptable techniques than I will ever hope to know. In summary, these two gentlemen run a tight program which Jacob affectionately refers to as "RV Bootcamp."
So how does one build a tailkit in 7 days? Part of the answer is putting in a lot of hours during those 7 days. The class is scheduled to run from 8AM to 7PM daily with 1 hour for lunch - that is a 10 hour day. Some simple math tells us that over 7 days that equates to 70 hours. Actually, I finished my kit in 6 days which equates to 60 hours. In addition, Jacob also leaves you with additional "homework" if you want to work later into the evening. I chose to do so and seldom shut down before 11PM or midnight making my work days 14 to 15 hours long. I opted to rent one of their "rooms" for $25 per night allowing me to work as late as I wanted and then crash until the following morning. So a word of warning -- This program is not for people who may not be in great health and cannot stand the rigors of a week-long high intensity program. I went to bed each night one tired puppy!
Still at 14 hours a day by 6 days that is only 84 hours. How can one complete a tailkit in 80 hours that typically takes 150 to 200 hours to complete? The answer is that Jacob and Mike know these kits inside, upside down, forwards, and backwards and the 100 or so hours that most of us spend trying to figure out the plans and the instructions is eliminated by this program. Jacob and Mike walk students through the process pointing out all of the pitfalls and possible problems that the uninformed have made or potentially might make.
Yes they do help with the building, but they don't build the kit for you. I think it is important that this distinction be made. When the student is finished with this program, he/she will have completed every major function of the building process. For example, the student will build the HS structure and dimple the first skin. While the student starts work on the VS, Mike may dimple the second HS skin. The only function the student does not complete is spraying the primer. Students are shown how to mix the primer and set up the spray equipment, then Jacob sprays the parts.
What I got out of this program is the opportunity to pick the brains of Jacob and Mike and the opportunity to work under their watchful eyes. I am convinced that most people can build these kits and that most problems are self-inflicted. Jacob and Mike are there to point out the pitfalls that most people fall into and to show the builder the tricks (not really tricks just informed building techniques) that results in a successful project. Examples: 1) On one occassion I was working away clecoing the VS rear spar. From a distance Jacob said, "You know, you may want to look at the plans again to see if that reinforcement plate should be on that side of the spar." 2) While I was drilling out a bad rivet I heard Jacob yell, "Stop!" I looked up and he asked me two questions, "What size rivet are you drilling?" "Uhhhh 40 ." "What size drill bit do you have in the drill?" "Uhhhhhh 30." It is these simple and what we refer to as stupid (careless) mistakes that get builders into trouble.
In addition we learned things that are probably, or maybe not, common knowledge to experienced builders. For example, we learned that the plans call for rivets that are typically too long (by about 1/2 size). Yes the longer rivets will work just fine, but longer rivets leave more opportunities for poorly formed shop heads. Jacob and Mike supplied us with half-size rivets (4.5, 5.5, 6.5) that made assembly go just a little bit more smoothly.
We also learned:
Why a #41 bit may be a better choice than a #40.
How much deburring is really enough?
How to prep the nose ribs to keep from getting those little creases you sometimes see in the skins.
Where and when to put in a couple of rivets to prevent the need to use a pulled rivet later on.
The proper order in which to set the rivets to get the best possible skin fit.
How to set those rivets in tight areas like the trailing edge of the elevators and not have to resort to pulled rivets.
How to form a straight and true trailing edge on the rudder in less than an hour without using proseal.
We also got to use every tool imaginable so a builder can see and touch and learn what really works and what doesn't. They have Tatco, Avery, Cleveland, and pneumatic squeezers. They have every type of edge roller, forming tool, and pop-rivet tool. We learned about all of the little tools that help complete the project with a minimum of difficulty.
The accomodations are sparse - roughly a 10x10 room with a bed, a desk, and a dresser. There is a common bathroom with a single shower. For me, after living aboard a ship with 5000 other sailors, this was not a problem. But for some it may be, in which case local hotels are within a 15 minute drive of the facility. I found the rooms great because they were only $25 per night and they provided me free run of the facility which allowed me to work later and start earlier if I desired.
The facility is great and is located on the Griffin/Spaulding airport. The building center is nestled in one corner of a large hanger which is also home to several other businesses run by Ron Alexander. The builders area is self-contained so there is no interference with or from the other activities taking place in the hanger. It is approximately 30 x 60 feet in size, airconditioned or heated, and well lit. All of our work was completed using hand tools, a band saw, a jig for the HS, and medium and fine scotchbrite wheels mounted to a pair of stand mounted bench grinders.
So how can one complete an empennage in 6/7 days? Simple, eliminate all of the indecision and confusion that first-time builders experience, eliminate the pitfalls and errors that most first-time builders experience, get guideance from two outstanding individuals who know the whats and how toos, and put it all into a well designed and equipped building facility, and the building process actually moves along quite rapidly.
Would I do it again? You bet I would! I learned so much during this program and more importantly I am confident that I can complete the rest of the kit without many problems. I am one tired puppy after this marathon week but I feel proud that I have a completed empennage to show for it rather than just a practice kit.
I know some of you experience builders are probably laughing right now and that is OK, I can take a ribbing. But for me, an inexperienced builder, this program was just what I needed and it has given me a jumpstart on my project. I am excited and plan to place an order for my slowbuild wings tomorrow.
To everyone at the Alexander Technical Center I say thank you for your hospitality and for a week of pure pleasure. And a special thank-you to Jacob and Mike for spending 10+ hours per day listening to my newbie questions and helping me become a better builder. Go ahead and have a laugh or two over the dumb mistakes I made.
This is certainly a recommendation of this program but like anything it's utility will very by individual needs and abilities. Your mileage and experience may be very different from mine. If I can be of any help to you please contact me offline.
The 2 day workshops looked pretty good. For roughly $500 I could travel to a city and in two days learn about building and come back with a practice project. I then looked at Alexander Technical Institute in Griffin Georgia and found out that for $1600 I could attend a 7 day tailkit program and actually build my own tailkit. "In 7 days? Is that possible? No way! Heck, even if I can only get the horizontal or vertical stabilizer completed I will at least be partway through my tailkit and have something definitive to show for my efforts."
I left on Sunday 2/5 and completed the 800 mile drive from Houston to Griffin in just under 13 hours. I got a hotel for the night and started the class Monday morning. I just returnd home (2/12) and am pleased to report that I am more than satisfied with the program and I have a 95% complete tailkit (connecting hardware, weights, and fiberglass outstanding) and the program was more than I hoped for. Yes these forums are great and there is no lack of willingness to share information. But nothing can compare to building your own tailkit under the eyes and guideance of instructors who have done it over 200 times.
All I can say is yes Virginia it is possible to build a tailkit in 7 days, including priming. The instructors are awesome! Jacob, a very fine young man, is an outstanding communicator and a great instructor. He knows every nook and cranny of the tailkit and it is obvious that the program is very well thought out. Jacob does an excellent job of assisting builders and making sure that the builder understands what is happening and why. Mike, the other instructor, is an A&P for Delta Airlines and is an RV8 builder. He knows more about construction standards and acceptable and unacceptable techniques than I will ever hope to know. In summary, these two gentlemen run a tight program which Jacob affectionately refers to as "RV Bootcamp."
So how does one build a tailkit in 7 days? Part of the answer is putting in a lot of hours during those 7 days. The class is scheduled to run from 8AM to 7PM daily with 1 hour for lunch - that is a 10 hour day. Some simple math tells us that over 7 days that equates to 70 hours. Actually, I finished my kit in 6 days which equates to 60 hours. In addition, Jacob also leaves you with additional "homework" if you want to work later into the evening. I chose to do so and seldom shut down before 11PM or midnight making my work days 14 to 15 hours long. I opted to rent one of their "rooms" for $25 per night allowing me to work as late as I wanted and then crash until the following morning. So a word of warning -- This program is not for people who may not be in great health and cannot stand the rigors of a week-long high intensity program. I went to bed each night one tired puppy!
Still at 14 hours a day by 6 days that is only 84 hours. How can one complete a tailkit in 80 hours that typically takes 150 to 200 hours to complete? The answer is that Jacob and Mike know these kits inside, upside down, forwards, and backwards and the 100 or so hours that most of us spend trying to figure out the plans and the instructions is eliminated by this program. Jacob and Mike walk students through the process pointing out all of the pitfalls and possible problems that the uninformed have made or potentially might make.
Yes they do help with the building, but they don't build the kit for you. I think it is important that this distinction be made. When the student is finished with this program, he/she will have completed every major function of the building process. For example, the student will build the HS structure and dimple the first skin. While the student starts work on the VS, Mike may dimple the second HS skin. The only function the student does not complete is spraying the primer. Students are shown how to mix the primer and set up the spray equipment, then Jacob sprays the parts.
What I got out of this program is the opportunity to pick the brains of Jacob and Mike and the opportunity to work under their watchful eyes. I am convinced that most people can build these kits and that most problems are self-inflicted. Jacob and Mike are there to point out the pitfalls that most people fall into and to show the builder the tricks (not really tricks just informed building techniques) that results in a successful project. Examples: 1) On one occassion I was working away clecoing the VS rear spar. From a distance Jacob said, "You know, you may want to look at the plans again to see if that reinforcement plate should be on that side of the spar." 2) While I was drilling out a bad rivet I heard Jacob yell, "Stop!" I looked up and he asked me two questions, "What size rivet are you drilling?" "Uhhhh 40 ." "What size drill bit do you have in the drill?" "Uhhhhhh 30." It is these simple and what we refer to as stupid (careless) mistakes that get builders into trouble.
In addition we learned things that are probably, or maybe not, common knowledge to experienced builders. For example, we learned that the plans call for rivets that are typically too long (by about 1/2 size). Yes the longer rivets will work just fine, but longer rivets leave more opportunities for poorly formed shop heads. Jacob and Mike supplied us with half-size rivets (4.5, 5.5, 6.5) that made assembly go just a little bit more smoothly.
We also learned:
Why a #41 bit may be a better choice than a #40.
How much deburring is really enough?
How to prep the nose ribs to keep from getting those little creases you sometimes see in the skins.
Where and when to put in a couple of rivets to prevent the need to use a pulled rivet later on.
The proper order in which to set the rivets to get the best possible skin fit.
How to set those rivets in tight areas like the trailing edge of the elevators and not have to resort to pulled rivets.
How to form a straight and true trailing edge on the rudder in less than an hour without using proseal.
We also got to use every tool imaginable so a builder can see and touch and learn what really works and what doesn't. They have Tatco, Avery, Cleveland, and pneumatic squeezers. They have every type of edge roller, forming tool, and pop-rivet tool. We learned about all of the little tools that help complete the project with a minimum of difficulty.
The accomodations are sparse - roughly a 10x10 room with a bed, a desk, and a dresser. There is a common bathroom with a single shower. For me, after living aboard a ship with 5000 other sailors, this was not a problem. But for some it may be, in which case local hotels are within a 15 minute drive of the facility. I found the rooms great because they were only $25 per night and they provided me free run of the facility which allowed me to work later and start earlier if I desired.
The facility is great and is located on the Griffin/Spaulding airport. The building center is nestled in one corner of a large hanger which is also home to several other businesses run by Ron Alexander. The builders area is self-contained so there is no interference with or from the other activities taking place in the hanger. It is approximately 30 x 60 feet in size, airconditioned or heated, and well lit. All of our work was completed using hand tools, a band saw, a jig for the HS, and medium and fine scotchbrite wheels mounted to a pair of stand mounted bench grinders.
So how can one complete an empennage in 6/7 days? Simple, eliminate all of the indecision and confusion that first-time builders experience, eliminate the pitfalls and errors that most first-time builders experience, get guideance from two outstanding individuals who know the whats and how toos, and put it all into a well designed and equipped building facility, and the building process actually moves along quite rapidly.
Would I do it again? You bet I would! I learned so much during this program and more importantly I am confident that I can complete the rest of the kit without many problems. I am one tired puppy after this marathon week but I feel proud that I have a completed empennage to show for it rather than just a practice kit.
I know some of you experience builders are probably laughing right now and that is OK, I can take a ribbing. But for me, an inexperienced builder, this program was just what I needed and it has given me a jumpstart on my project. I am excited and plan to place an order for my slowbuild wings tomorrow.
To everyone at the Alexander Technical Center I say thank you for your hospitality and for a week of pure pleasure. And a special thank-you to Jacob and Mike for spending 10+ hours per day listening to my newbie questions and helping me become a better builder. Go ahead and have a laugh or two over the dumb mistakes I made.
This is certainly a recommendation of this program but like anything it's utility will very by individual needs and abilities. Your mileage and experience may be very different from mine. If I can be of any help to you please contact me offline.
