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RV-6 engine mount cracks

Peter Dugdale

I'm New Here
Hello, During my annual I observed cracks around the landing gear tube with the lower engine mount bolts, lower fillet weld. I have ~930Hrs TT, ~2000 landings. Looks like it can be welded in situe. Anyone had to do this? Van's sells gusset plates (std on new mounts) so I guess I'm not the first? Concerns with MIG welding and electrical interference/damage to the avionics; plan on pulling the radios. Lightspeed thinks the EI should be Ok. Anyone with experience/comments of things to watch out for? Thanks, Peter
 
I was aware of the mod on the RV-7 mounts and had heard a number of reports of similar cracks to RV-6 mounts in Australia, so I had the mod done to my own '6 mount. Vans had the patches and supplied them without hesitation. An easy preventative measure for me.

I believe these cracks are either very rare or not picked up during the inspections. One report I reviewed indicated that the cracking did not propagate beyond the initial sign.

Good luck with welding in place! It may be possible.

Doug Gray
 
I have cracks too.

I wrote Vans and included large pictures of the cracks so they could see them, instead of just talking about them. Their response was that they were not going to fall off, but they should be fixed. Several comments like rough landing strips or lots of grass strips may have caused them, etc. But they weren't sure. Also, it seems to be mainly on the bigger engine planes as well.

They do sell Gussets that make the -6 mount more like the -7 mount. The gussets mount on the bottom of the engine mount under the gear socket horizontally, it is about 3 to 3.5 inches IIRC and close up the triangle formed by the existing engine mount members. Since these cracks are on the top side and not the bottom, you might think the mount is plenty strong with positive G's and landing, but maybe less than strong enough on negitive G's. The gusset appears to reinforce that situation.

Note:.....these cracks are TINY....hair line fractures!!! very very small. easily missed on inspection. Especially since the area they are in gets a little dirty being the bottom corner of the cowling.
I found mine because my mount is a white color from 1995 and it had some brown looking goo coming from the crack that appeared to be rust and oil or something like that. That caught my attention and made me look closer.

My hangar mate had to pull his engine for OH and we looked close at his mount too and since his was painted metal flake red, it was harder to inspect, but we found tiny fractures in the same place as mine. since we had the engine off, we removed the mount and stripped the paint off and when the paint was off, the cracks were gone too.....that is correct, the crack was only in the paint on his mount. We went ahead and welded the gusset on anyway and repainted the mount back white like it should be in my opinion.

The welder made a brass dowel the same size as the gear leg itself to absorb the heat and not deform the socket, which seemed like a great idea to me. He is a senior welder with tons of experience and I was thankful of that for sure.
This gusset can not be welded on while the engine mount is in place.
well.......at least a proper job could not be accomplished anyway.
You might get by with re-welding the tiny crack on top, but I'm pretty sure it isn't or wasn't the weld's fault for the crack as this location must be an odd place for -G's..... It didn't seem right to re-weld on the mount at the socket area with the gear leg in place for fear of it attaching to the steel gear or deforming the socket without the brass heat sink in place. Mainly, I think it will re-crack without the gusset in place.

Or maybe not! There are 2 other lower time -6's with 0-360's on my field and they don't have cracks or any sign of cracks. Mine and my hangar mates were both 600 hour plus airframes with 0-360's too.

The solution is, if you actually have cracks, is to pull the engine mount, strip the paint or powder coating, either just in the local area or the entire thing.
Then have the gusset welded in place and repaint or powder coated.

I know it is seems like a big job and it is, but since we didn't build our planes, it was a good time to update the firewall things like the gascolator, firewall penetrations and swap to SS heat boxes and change the lower cowl hinges that were broken to screws and nut plates, etc.

Someone asked for pictures, but the cracks are so tiny it is hard to see with the naked eye, we actually had to use extra light and a magnifying glass to see them, so a picture would be hard to show them. That is why I printed pictures out 8x10 with pointers at the cracks and sent them to Vans with a letter, so even if they couldn't see the cracks, they would know where they were.
Good Luck.
 
A Known issue.

you might think the mount is plenty strong with positive G's and landing, but maybe less than strong enough on negative G's. The gusset appears to reinforce that situation.

These mounts are from the Wittman Tailwind days- simple, strong and light- designed for the 700 LB Tailwind or 750 LB RV3. Now that we have 200 HP with CS props on these 6's(1800 LB gross in some cases!). It's no wonder we are seeing cracks on the gear mounts from landing. This is not from G's, A landing will put 10 times more momentary force on the gear than any G's you could pull. I have some gas welding experience from building a Tailwind Fuse (Fabricating and welding the engine mount from a pile of tubes). This is some heavy metal with stresses possibly built into the mount frame by not perfecting the stress relieving portion of the build. Even after a beautiful tig job, the gear should be heated up by a torch or oven to stress relieve the mount while it's still in the jig.
But that is probably not the cause- ?The cause is that one time in that flare that I rounded out 3 feet too high in a 3- point and thought I could sweeten the deal with no power.? begunggggggg! Gear test! time to look at the tires too!:eek:
The brass tube as a jig filler is interesting since the gear tubes are originally welded in the jig with no filling fixture. The last thing to warp would be that .125 -4130 steel tube. Sure you are going to get some weld slag in there but that could melt the brass filler to a permanent fixture!?
I think Van is correct where the mount is not going to go anywhere anytime soon. But the gusset repair is the way to go. I would just use heat shields arround the area of weld repair. Interested in where the hairlines are forming?? Next to or below the firewall attach bolt structure?
 
I had a professional aviation welder add the gussets. He did so without any specific precaution to protect the gear leg socket and I had no problem slotting in the gear legs after welding.

Note the gearleg socket 'tube' is not a solid .125 tube, it is a thinner diameter tube with two short inserts to reduce the internal diameter top and bottom. These are welded on the tube ends.

This way they are easier to ream to size for the gear leg.

Doug Gray
 
I think Van is correct where the mount is not going to go anywhere anytime soon. But the gusset repair is the way to go. I would just use heat shields arround the area of weld repair. Interested in where the hairlines are forming?? Next to or below the firewall attach bolt structure?

I found a tiny crack on the edge of the weld on the gear tube--took some careful looking to determine it was indeed a hairline crack instead of a paint flaw (see arrow in the photo):

crack.jpg


(Ten years, 985 hrs, a bunch of landings on grass)

It appears to have been present for quite some time. I've been watching it for awhile and if it doesn't progress will most likely not address it unless the engine has to be removed for some reason.
 
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cracks

It's no wonder we are seeing cracks on the gear mounts from landing. This is not from G's, A landing will put 10 times more momentary force on the gear than any G's you could pull.
The brass tube as a jig filler is interesting since the gear tubes are originally welded in the jig with no filling fixture. The last thing to warp would be that .125 -4130 steel tube. Sure you are going to get some weld slag in there but that could melt the brass filler to a permanent fixture!?
Interested in where the hairlines are forming?? Next to or below the firewall attach bolt structure?

I guess I didn't really mean the cracks were from pulling G's exactly.
More that the crack was on top of the socket so it most likely would be in compression on landing or parked on the ground so the cracking most likely
would be when the gear was suspended in flight or additional forces acting upon the gear while pulling positive G's while airborne.
But from what you said, a crack is a crack and could happen for various reasons, including a hard landing, and I had my share of those while transitioning.
Thanks for the info on how the mount is welded, maybe the brass plug is or was overkill from trying to do no harm.

Thanks Sam for posting the picture.....that is exactly where I'm talking about.
 
I wonder if the infamous "gear shimmy" that is so common on RV-6's could be responsible for the hairline cracks. Seems to me the part of the shimmy cycle that propels the gear forward would put more stress on this location than would a hard landing.
 
RV6 mount cracks

Hello

Many thanks for all the comments. The cracks are as documented with the pic above, the cracks are in the horizontal fillet weld below to lower outboard bolt tube which intersects with the gear tube (I can't seem to be able to load a pic?). The cracks have come through the paint. Need to look closely. Jacking/lifting the aircraft helpa open the cracks up. The weld gussets arrived today, quite small really. Welding plans tomorrow. Peter
 
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me too

One man's opinion:

I have the same cracks in the same place. They appear to have been there for a LONG time, and do not propagate. The gear has had NO rough treatment (grass, gravel, etc.). I believe they may be fabrication cracks from weld shrinkage. This is a high-mass area which structure is prone to such fab problems, and the very tiny hairlines might never be noticed in a visual inspection.

One more observation: the Van's gussets which can be welded into that area will completely obscure the cracked weld fillet and make it impossible to determine whether any cracks exist or emerge once the gussets are in place.

I too will keep watching for a while.
 
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