RV Competition Aerobatics - Equipped and Interested??

Who here does recreational aerobatics and has kicked around the idea of joining the IAC and flying some contests? What prevents you? I'm just curious, since there's now such a large fleet of capable aerobatic aircraft that aren't being represented on the IAC contest scene. With this year's season over, I was looking through the contest results and found exactly two RVs (RV-4 and RV-8) as having competed. Guess we can count the one F-1 Rocket as well.

There are quite a few RVs with inverted fuel/oil...and yes, it's hard to do well without inverted systems, but a large percentage of RVs these days are fuel-injected and would only need flop tubes and a few more hoses, ball valve, and oil separator firewall forward.

It's possible there are some misconceptions out there regarding what competition is about, but it's basically of a bunch of very friendly, laid-back, open pilots who just want to hang out for a weekend, talk airplanes, learn a bit, and maybe even do a little fun flying. Everyone's there to have a good time and to help each other.

To let you know the mix of planes that can show up at contests, here are some flown this year (Primary and Sportsman Categories) that are not your usual Pitts and Extra types: Clipped J-3 Cub, Bucker Jungmann, Sorrell Hiperbipe, Stearman, Yak 50/52, Great Lakes, Cessna Aerobat, Cap 10B. RVs can definitely hang.

There has been strong interest among the IAC body regarding bringing in RVer's. There has even been talk of new categories/sequences that are more friendly to non-inverted systems aircraft.

RV's would easily fly the Sportsman sequence, which each year is changed and arranged to contain variations of these basic maneuvers: Loop, Roll, Half-Cuban, Spin, Hammerhead, Immelman, Split-S, and Competition Turn.

I don't think anyone would go to a contest and leave disappointed, as long as you make a point of being there to have fun and learn a bit about the sport and flying better aerobatics. There are over 40 IAC Chapters across the country, so there's probably one relatively close to you. See www.iac.org for more info.

rv acro

I have considered doing a contest or two but I don't like the herky jerky way you have to do the figures to compete. I may still give it a try at some point just to do it and I know most of the people competing are fun people. It is just one more thing you can do with an RV.

CM

Eric,

Can the RV-3 with the "B" mod/wing compete?

No worries, I know my -9 is not supposed to do such things as acro.

Chris - The judging criteria for competition figures is precision, not abruptness. Smoothness should be strived for, as it will improve your presentation. Yes, there may be some new sensations you may experience when doing maneuvers to competition standards such as transitioning back and forth between positive and negative G, and rolling the airplane in an uncoordinated fashion (ball not centered). But this can be done smoothly and is something you quickly get used to.

Here's what gains you maximum points - accurately setting 45 degree and vertical lines, roundness of looping maneuvers, stopping your spins exactly on heading, centering your rolls on a line, rolling the airpane perfectly along its axis without deviating from altitude/heading, timing your rudder application correctly during hammerheads, precise hesitations on point rolls, etc. None of this requires banging the controls around. Smoothness facilitates precision.

Bill - Yes, the RV-3B would be at least as capable as any other RV for competition. Again, you would need inverted systems to prevent momentary loss of oil pressure and engine sagging during portions of certain maneuvers. They can be cheated to be kept more positive, but they wouldn't score as well.

From the responses, it appears competition acro is not on the horizon of many RV pilots. Nevertheless, even if competing isn't really your gig, getting involved in the IAC is a great resource to learn more about aerobatics from some really knowledgeable folks and challenge yourself in a new way, competitions or not.

IAC welcomes RV pilots

Eric: You are indeed correct, in that the IAC, sensing a need to increase its progressively thinning ranks, has made a concerted effort to attract the RV community. Some talks have been held in regards to making a special aerobatic "box" for RV aircraft, which, because of their aerodynamically clean nature, have a difficult time staying within a 1 Km area. (It appears impossibly small at first, regardless of your mount!).
There is no doubt that the aerobatic experience, when all safety standards are adhered to, will make a better pilot. Contact the IAC.
TN
Former RV-8 QB
Pitts S2A
Still following the cult.

Competition

Thanks for the reply Eric. As I said in my post, I may try a contest or two next year if sched. permits. I am pretty familiar with aerobatics ( I have an ACE card). My RV doesn't have an inverted system and when I do my airshow sequence I actually try demonstrate the speed and performance of the plane. It could do a nice job in the Basic and Sportman but it would be a challenge to keep it in the box.

I skipped my first day of College to watch the World Championships in OSH in the Fall of 1980. I saw Leo L....( not even going to try to spell his last name) blow the competition away with his "Stevens Acro" That was my first exposure to Competition Aerobatics.

Chris M RACE34 RV-4 Mister Twister

Competitive in Sportsman

I have competed for the past two years. I flew my RV-8 in Primary in three contests in 2008 and did well, even finished second in the NorthEast Region for the year. This year, I flew Sportsman but was only able to make two contests. Although it is tougher to fly precision aerobatics in an RV than other purpose built aircraft, I was able to hold my own. I even came in second (out of a dozen or so) in my second contest, beating out one of Michael Guilians instructors in an S-1!

The proposed sequences for 2010 have been published and I was specifically asked by the IAC Board for my input from the "RV" point of view. The IAC is very interested in attracting more RV's, why wouldn't they be, there are 6,000+ of us! I had some issues with several of the proposed sequences and made my recommendations, including thoughts to make my first preference better for the J-3 a member of our chapter flies!

You can read about my first year here. http://www.iac52.org/2008/Scott.html
This was also published in the RVator last spring.

Bottom line, yes the RV can be competitive and FUN in IAC competition though I am looking at the possibility of putting an RV-7 rudder on my 8 to help in the Hammerheads as well as rolling figures.

Scott A. Jordan
N733JJ

LEO LAUDENSLAGER

Just to set the record straight: Leo built a Stephens Acro, completed in 1972. He flew one Intermediate contest at Brookhaven LI, and then in Oct flew Unlimited at the Nationals. In 1975 he found a cracked spar. The fuselage was cut in half and all but half of the fuselage was discarded. The new airplane was finished just in time for the Nationals in Oct 75 where Leo won for the first time. The new airplane was named the Laser 200. Except for the general planform there was little resemblance to the Stephens Acro.
When Leo retired from competetion and gained sponsorship from Budweiser, the Laser was referred to as the Bud Light Special. The airplane is now on display in the Air and Space Dulles facility.
Jim Roberts built an airplane which was identical to Leos 1975 configuration. Henry Haigh built a similar airplane in which he won world champion in 1988. The Extra 230 is nearly identical to the Laser in planform. The airfoil transforms the Extra. The Extra 230 is the nicest flying and easiest to fly aerobatic airplane in the world. As the Extra got heavier and bigger with bigger engines it wasn't as much fun to fly.
York Enterprises in Canada sells plans and kits for a Laser X200, which is somewhat similar to the Laser 200.
All modern aerobatic monoplanes were inspired to some degree by Leo's Laser.

I'm in.... but I have some work to do first.

This sounds great! I have a wing in my garage that I have to go work on. I will see you guys later!

I was intrigued with the idea several years ago, and even built my 8 with a flop tube and inverted oil. However, after a couple of years of IAC membership -- and reading in each issue of their magazine sad farewells to members who had perished while practicing their routines -- coupled with the unlikely successful egress from an RV-8 -- I took that off my list of things to do in life. Not unlike the night flying discussion -- it's all about risk management for me. However, the door always remains open for a change of heart ...

Leo L.

When I was in OSH ,for that contest, in 1980 everyone was calling his plane a Stephens Acro. I read years later on that it was highly modified. I had never seen one before and everyone there was impressed with his Lumchevak(sp). Most there except the competitors had never seen one before and nobody in the Pitts' were doing that. That was cutting edge back then, and look at what they are doing now. I saw a guy in a Monocoupe put on a **** of a nice show that day but I can't remember his name. I think that was the most impressive thing I saw there.

Chris M

For anyone interested, the 2010 "Known" aerobatic sequences are posted on IAC's site...so take a look to see if you and your RV are up for any of it! (Primary and Sportsman Power sequences).

http://members.iac.org/home.html

Here's a good explanation for Aresti, the notation system for the maneuvers, with a brief description of the figures:

http://iac.org/begin/figures.html#Aileron%20Rolls

For more information than you ever wanted to know about the judging criteria for maneuvers, see Chapter 8 of the IAC Contest Rule Book, available for download via the first link above.

N8RV said:

I was intrigued with the idea several years ago, and even built my 8 with a flop tube and inverted oil. However, after a couple of years of IAC membership -- and reading in each issue of their magazine sad farewells to members who had perished while practicing their routines -- coupled with the unlikely successful egress from an RV-8 -- I took that off my list of things to do in life. Not unlike the night flying discussion -- it's all about risk management for me. However, the door always remains open for a change of heart ...

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One last note, please do not confuse the dangers of airshow flying vs. competition flying (or even recreational aerobatics). The above reference certainly applies to airshow flying, which is done at very low altitude, unlike competition flying, and unfortunately does involve not-infrequent tragic accidents. The death of IAC President Vicki Cruse last year was a very high-profile incident in the world of competition aerobatics, which happened at the World Aerobatic Contest. BTW, this was the first fatality at the World's since the 60's. And to my knowledge, there has never been a fatality during an IAC contest flight in the states since the formation of IAC in 1970. It is highly suspected that Vicki died as a result of a malfunction of the rudder-pedal extensions that were configured for her in the borrowed plane she was using, preventing her recovery from a snap roll.

It's also hard to miss the many NTSB reports of fatalities involving aerobatic flight. Many of these are impromptu attempts at low-level maneuvers, with the pilot clearly exceeding his or her capabilities. I would also suspect that most aerobatic fatalities involve pilots who did not immerse themselves in the culture of the sport, as promoted by IAC. Not that you necessarily have to be a "joiner", but IAC promotes education, training, rules, and a generally safe and responsible approach to the sport. There's a great knowledge-base available here.

We really would like to see more RVer's. Plenty of time to practice for some Spring contests.

If anyone is interested and would like to join us at KLKR in Lancaster SC, the second Saturday in May, IAC19 has a practice day and lots of hangar talk in between. Come and see what we are about...We'll ask Bill Crothers to have a formation flight practice session as well.

BIG (i mean BIG) Acro practice Box supplied by yours trully 5,500 x 5,500 from 500 agl to 4,000 agl

LOMCEVAK

While it is generally accepted that Frank Price brought the Lomcevak back from the first world contest, there is also a possibility that others in the US had been doing this maneuver since the late fourties. I saw Rod Jocelyn do the Lomcevak in the PJ260 around 1960 and saw videos of him doing it in the Pitts S1C and Rose Parakeet in the same time frame. Within the next few years most Pitts pilots were doing Lomcevaks.

Christopher Murphy said:

Thanks for the reply Eric. As I said in my post, I may try a contest or two next year if sched. permits. I am pretty familiar with aerobatics ( I have an ACE card). My RV doesn't have an inverted system and when I do my airshow sequence I actually try demonstrate the speed and performance of the plane. It could do a nice job in the Basic and Sportman but it would be a challenge to keep it in the box.

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Chris, two contests later this year in Lamar, CO - one Sept. 3-4, and another Oct. 8-9. Represent some RVs, man! Didn't see you in any contest results from last year. You don't need inverted systems for Primary and Sportsman, just watch your oil level for long practice sessions. Hook up with IAC 5 or 12 and get some ground critiquing. The Primary and Sportsman sequences are fairly basic, but will still take a good bit of practice to get your flying scoring well. Get knowledgeable help from the ground...an afternoon of expert ground critiquing will do more for your flying than months of practicing on your own. The RV can stay in the box just fine. Staying in the box is a challenge at first for everybody in any airplane....except for a Cub maybe. People don't realize that situational awareness and good positioning in the box can be harder than flying the figures!

If you're in the northeast US, there's an aerobatic competition every year at VSF, Springfield, VT the weekend after July 4. It's going on here right now. They've been practicing for the last few days and it runs through Sunday.

but what about spins

I have recently joined IAC and have been contemplating selling the rv4 and getting a Pitts/Laser for about the same money. One of my concerns was the "spins not considered recreational aerobatics and not recommended for RV aircraft". Is this accurate? Also, what about feasibility of exiting RV aircraft in an emergency? The "aerobatic designed" aircraft have a long history of strength and emergency egress that I am a little nervous about in the RV.

bryanrene said:

I have recently joined IAC and have been contemplating selling the rv4 and getting a Pitts/Laser for about the same money. One of my concerns was the "spins not considered recreational aerobatics and not recommended for RV aircraft". Is this accurate? Also, what about feasibility of exiting RV aircraft in an emergency? The "aerobatic designed" aircraft have a long history of strength and emergency egress that I am a little nervous about in the RV.

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If you are competent and comfortable with spins in general, there's no reason not to spin an RV. The RV-6 with the older small vertical fin will start to rotate very rapidly beyond 2 turns, and recover slower than some are comfortable with, but this is a pilot comfort issue, not a safety issue. Competition spins are in the 1, 1-1/4, and 1-1/2 turn variety, so you'd never enter this spin mode. And the "recommendation" against spins does not apply to the RV-4. The RV-4 has the best egress of any RV, since unlatching the canopy will cause you to be flying an open cockpit plane very quickly. I understand the sliders and side-by-side tips could be a problem opening in flight. No reason not get get involved with IAC contest with the RV-4. If you get addicted, you'll pretty quickly move to Intermediate and higher, which the RV will not be well-suited for. RV are the best all-around planes, and you might want to be sure you want that much dedicated aerobatic capability before buying a Pitts/Laser. I sold my RV-4 for a Pitts S-1S, but then I am a serious acro nut and fly my Pitts in Intermediate...working on Advanced.

Count me in

I fancy doing a contest or two with my -8. Although it isn't my primary mission, I did put an inverted fuel/oil system on it.

Now I just have to get it flying...

I suppose I have some recent experience that I can share here. While building a Rocket I have been flying a Super Decathlon. About 5 or 6 weeks ago I was invited to the local IAC Chapter 67 Acro Camp, a week long gathering for coaching and practicing acro in the local "box". Having never flown any acro I quickly hooked up with an instructor (IAC member, competitor, airshow pilot, and instructor) who flies a Super Decathlon. Bottom line is that I had a blast, learned a huge amount, and know that I am a much better pilot for having done it. All this culminated in my flying my first contest a couple of weeks ago and I had more fun and learned even more. Something the IAC promotes and that I took advantage of is the use of a Safety Pilot; my instructor/coach flew in the back seat with me at all times, to save my behind if I needed it. I know this isn't flying acro in an RV, but from where I'm sitting I could not recommend learning acro enough.

Congrats Larry! That's a good score anytime, in any category and especially at your very first contest. Keep it up! Glad it was a good experience for you.

sandifer said:

Congrats Larry! That's a good score anytime, in any category and especially at your very first contest. Keep it up! Glad it was a good experience for you.

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WOOP WOOOP Congrats!!!! I am glad you are a much safer pilot today!