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  #1  
Old 10-25-2009, 07:59 PM
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339A 339A is offline
 
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Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 178
Default The Other Side of VFR

Deb and I do a lot of VFR flying in 339A and have been very fortunate this year that the weather has cooperated on most of our trips. That is until our recent flight to Virginia/back. Being a VFR-only pilot, I thought it might be a good idea to share our experiences from that trip.

We couldn’t attend LOE this year because I had to be in Gordonsville, VA for a two-week work project starting on the 28th of Sept. The plan was to fly 339A there and back, weather permitting. This time of year, changing weather patterns can be a bit problematic. Usually, though, 3 days will allow enough time to cross the country in spite of what the weather is dishing out. When we left on Saturday, there was a front ahead of us that I knew we would catch up to. And we did, while going through MO. This forced us to land short of our planned stop in Owensboro, KY.

It’s interesting to note that I decided to get cleared through Columbia's class D. When I called the tower and communicated my intentions, the controller cleared me through and then asked a few questions about my RV. Turns out he owns a 7A and keeps it at Fulton where we were headed.





We got the keys to the courtesy car and headed to a hotel a few miles from the airport. About two hours after checking in, the room phone rings and it’s the tower controller/7A owner that I had been in contact with earlier. After talking for a bit, we realized that we had met at Osh in 2008. TJ Boos and his wife had camped right across from us. Small world. We headed out to dinner that night, TJ’s treat.

We continued on the next day following weather all the way. Our planned destination was Culpeper, VA. Once again, we wound up short. We had been flying for over an hour on top of a solid overcast when a hole opened up, and I decided to go down through. It’s worth noting that this is one of those occasions when I should have trusted my 696 with XM weather. We don’t normally like to talk about the woulda, coulda, shoudas of PIC decisions, but the XM showed Culpeper and surrounding airports as “clear” at our destination. At 45 minutes out, it just didn’t look like it was going to clear up. I believed my eyes and not my instruments. As it turned out, it was clear at Culpeper. It’s been said that hindsight is like foresight but without a future.









We ended up spending that night in Buckhannon, West Virginia. Weather next day wasn’t any better, so we sat around till three in the afternoon waiting for it to clear. Well, we finally did make it to Culpeper that afternoon, a day late for work.

Fast forward two weeks and it’s time to head home. First I had to fly over to Bay Bridge Airport to pick Deb up as she had been visiting our son in Centreville, MD. Always fun to navigate through the outer “speed ring” of the DC TFR without crossing over into the FRZ, while staying clear of all the restricted airspace on the south side. Have I mentioned that I love my new 696?!



We began our trek home knowing that we could not get all the way to Front Range that day since neither weather nor time would allow for it. As the day progressed, it was decided that we would head back to Fulton, MO where we knew a courtesy car was available and the weather was still good. After arriving at the hotel that night and looking at the forecasts, I started to worry that we might not get out of there for a few days. Next morning, my fears were confirmed. A low pressure system looked as though it was just going to sit in our way till possibly the end of the week. This just wasn’t going to work since I needed to be back at the office in Denver before then.



On to Plan B. Did I mention you must always have a Plan B when flying VFR … not only in the air, but on the ground as well? My plan was to rent a car and drive the 11 hours back to Denver. I called TJ and explained our predicament, and he was most helpful. He was working, yet managed to get hold of his wife Donna who picked us up at the airport in Fulton and drove us over to Columbia so we could pick up the rental car I had reserved. From there we began the long drive back to Denver. On a positive note, the rental was a Lincoln Town Car. Nice!

So now it’s Tuesday … 339A sits on the ramp in Fulton, MO and we’re back in Denver. With the weather forecasted to clear out for the weekend, I booked a one-way Frontier flight to Kansas City to retrieve it. I had been in contact with TJ about my plans for fetching the RV. Just so happens he has a friend whose been wanting to fly into Kansas City Airport to gain some class B experience. TJ offered up Allen’s services to come and pick me up in a 172. This arrangement makes Allen and Scott very happy. Now a two-fold mission would be completed.

Deb and I stayed at the hangar on Friday night and watched a movie on the big screen. It’s only a 15- minute drive to DIA and with a 7:00 AM departure on Frontier it was the best choice. The flight over to Kansas City in the tube was nice until about halfway across Kansas when it went solid below us. I’m thinking, “Oh great, I’m not going to get out of here today”. Once on the ground the conditions were VFR but with several layers and overcast at 6000.

A half-hour after landing in the tube, TJ calls me and says they will be over to get me in 5 minutes. I wait outside the Frontier pickup and sure enough here they come in the Executive Beechcraft van. We head back over to the general aviation ramp, pay for the fuel and load into the 172. With Allen doing the flying duties and TJ handling the radio calls, we were out of there in about 10 minutes on our way to Fulton. The flight over to KFTT was interesting as I haven’t been in the back seat of a 172 ever! The weather was clearing up and actually very nice on the ground in Fulton. A quick lunch with Donna and TJ at the diner in town and then it was off to Denver, Front Range.





I did have to fly over another solid layer for about an hour-and-a-half while crossing Kansas. This cleared up somewhere around Salina. I landed for a quick fuel stop in Beloit, KS then flew the rest of the way to FTG. It was a looong day, but good to get 339A back into the home hangar again.

Many thanks go to Donna and TJ Boos for all their help. Thanks to Allen also for flying into MCI in a 172. Not sure what we would have done without them? The RVing group is full of great people who are willing to lend a hand on a moment’s notice. We've made so many new friends all over the country thanks to the airplane we built in our garage. In the now infamous words of Rosie, we are “expanding our circle of friends.”

Most of our trip write ups don’t delve into what happens when we can no longer continue flying VFR. My intention in posting this was to show what happens on the other side of VFR. That is, you cannot always complete a flight the way you intended. (See Rosie’s rules for cross country flying #1 and #9 as they certainly applied on this trip.) This is the downside to VFR-only flight. But then again, we still managed to get home and even had some fun doing it thanks to the friends we have made within the RV community.

KPR = “Keep pounding those rivets.”
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Airport Landings

"In order to discover new lands one must have the courage to lose sight of the shore." Andre Gide

Last edited by 339A : 10-28-2009 at 03:52 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:27 PM
RVnoob RVnoob is offline
 
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...that's why I never get bored reading VAF
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:32 PM
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TroyBranch TroyBranch is offline
 
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Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
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Default Nice Trip report.

You guys are very lucky with your VFR rules in the US. Being able to fly over an overcast and just pick a hole along the way is not allowed in Canada. The destination has to be a forcast as scattered sky or better for a certain amount of time ahead and after your arrival time. This makes VFR OTT a bit more difficult for us as it has to be more planned and flight planned filed as VFR OTT. I like your way much better as it is much less restrictive and allows alot more opportunity to make use of it. With XM you can get allot more situtation awareness of what the weather is ahead to make these desicions while in the air. I will be starting my IFR rating in the new year as this seams to be the only way to make good use of flying above the overcast in Canada. Not sure why the rules have to be so different.
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  #4  
Old 10-25-2009, 08:57 PM
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Scott, I know you don't want to hear me say it again... . Keep flying and stay safe as always. IFR! (Not the ... kind. )
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:47 AM
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AlexPeterson AlexPeterson is offline
 
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Default Having a range of days to work with...

In about 7 trips (14 one-ways) from Minnesota to south Florida in my RV, I've had to overnight somewhere about 3 times due to weather. The most important planning factor for me is to not need to go on any specific day, but rather plan a range of days and pick the best one. I'd guess that on the average, that route would have broad ifr weather somewhere on the path more than 50% of the time, as it simply crosses so much distance.

I've also planned for that route to be a two day trip. For example, flying up to near a front, over nighting while the front passes, and then continuing the next day.
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  #6  
Old 10-28-2009, 04:49 AM
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BSwayze BSwayze is offline
 
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Scott,

Great write-up! Excellent photos! Another excellent adventure. I'm glad you and Deb played it safe, even when it involved a long drive in a car. I've been curious about how you like the new 696. Sounds great. It cracked me up reading about your ride in the back seat of the 172. I haven't been in the back seat (well... actually there were NO seats) of a 172 since my skydiving days years ago. We just climbed in with all our gear on and sat on the floor. Glad you had a safe trip.
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2009, 06:54 AM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
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I would like to put a in warning here about XM weather. I use it as a tool for cross country flights and it has proven to be a real help. HOWEVER, it does not always do a good job with clouds. It is not a satilite image but a mathematical model based on infra red temperature differences. if there is a difference from ground temperature then the unit "says" it must be due to cloud cover. There are times when clouds are the same temperature as the surface. When this condition occurs the unit will show CLEAR SKY conditions. Thus the hole that you think is there may in fact not be.
I use the unit for precipation, lightning, winds, metars etc, but not for cloud cover or ceilings. The first time I used it on the way home from Sun and Fun, three years ago, it kept telling me that there was clear air ahead. It never did get clear.
Use the tool but be aware of the limitations.
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2009, 07:23 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Absolutely!

Tom is right on about the cloud data in XM - I find it almost worse than useless - it is pretty darn misleading, especially in the mornings. METARS always trump whatever pretty cloud picture I might see....

Paul
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2009, 12:40 PM
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339A 339A is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyBranch View Post
You guys are very lucky with your VFR rules in the US. Being able to fly over an overcast and just pick a hole along the way is not allowed in Canada. The destination has to be a forcast as scattered sky or better for a certain amount of time ahead and after your arrival time.
Hi Troy. Haven't heard from you in a while. Looks like everything is going great. Read your Maritimes write up, glad to see you are using the 10 for its designed purpose. Somewhere in our future there will be a Canadian adventure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scard View Post
Scott, I know you don't want to hear me say it again... . Keep flying and stay safe as always. IFR! (Not the ... kind. )
Scott, you're right. I could really use an IFR rating. I only lack two things ... time and money

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSwayze View Post
Scott,

Great write-up! Excellent photos! Another excellent adventure. I'm glad you and Deb played it safe, even when it involved a long drive in a car. I've been curious about how you like the new 696. Sounds great. It cracked me up reading about your ride in the back seat of the 172. I haven't been in the back seat (well... actually there were NO seats) of a 172 since my skydiving days years ago. We just climbed in with all our gear on and sat on the floor. Glad you had a safe trip.
I have about 10 hours in a 172. Most of my training was done in a 150/152 ... even worse. KPR Bruce, it will be finished before you know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexPeterson View Post
In about 7 trips (14 one-ways) from Minnesota to south Florida in my RV, I've had to overnight somewhere about 3 times due to weather. The most important planning factor for me is to not need to go on any specific day, but rather plan a range of days and pick the best one. I'd guess that on the average, that route would have broad ifr weather somewhere on the path more than 50% of the time, as it simply crosses so much distance.

I've also planned for that route to be a two day trip. For example, flying up to near a front, over nighting while the front passes, and then continuing the next day.
I do essentially the same thing for trip planning. You have to be flexible if you're going to fly VFR. On this trip going there took three days, pretty standard when allowing for weather. Coming back there was no way we would have gotten out of MO and made it home till Saturday. Too long to sit on the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Martin View Post
I would like to put a in warning here about XM weather. I use it as a tool for cross country flights and it has proven to be a real help. HOWEVER, it does not always do a good job with clouds. It is not a satilite image but a mathematical model based on infra red temperature differences. if there is a difference from ground temperature then the unit "says" it must be due to cloud cover. There are times when clouds are the same temperature as the surface. When this condition occurs the unit will show CLEAR SKY conditions. Thus the hole that you think is there may in fact not be.
I use the unit for precipation, lightning, winds, metars etc, but not for cloud cover or ceilings. The first time I used it on the way home from Sun and Fun, three years ago, it kept telling me that there was clear air ahead. It never did get clear.
Use the tool but be aware of the limitations.
Just to clarify a couple points ... I only have the XM Aviator Light package which does not include the cloud cover you refer to. (The point you make is part of the reason why I don't pay for it.) When I referred to "reporting clear," this was based on the METARS of several airports over by CJR. The METARS are what I like the most about the XM weather.

Worth noting here that before we departed on that leg of the trip, I had a look at Weathermeister. One of the NOTAMS for CJR was "service AWOS ceiling unreliable" ... doesn't instill a lot of confidence. And the NOTAM is still there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
Absolutely!

Tom is right on about the cloud data in XM - I find it almost worse than useless - it is pretty darn misleading, especially in the mornings. METARS always trump whatever pretty cloud picture I might see....

Paul
I agree, and the METARS were right! I went the way of the live chicken and took the hole. The airports below me were reporting VFR. At the time, it seemed the best option as fuel would have been low upon reaching CJR making any kind of a return impossible. Based on hindsight (remembering what's been said about hindsight), I would have had no problems had we pressed on.

I have had the XM weather for about three years now and really do like it, but you guys are right ... be aware of limitations and idiosyncrasies.
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Scott Mills, Front Range, CO
N339A - 760 Hours!! since 9/11/05
Blog/Website: www.itsallaboutusnow.com
Airport Landings

"In order to discover new lands one must have the courage to lose sight of the shore." Andre Gide

Last edited by 339A : 10-28-2009 at 03:53 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2009, 10:26 AM
Nick Leonard Nick Leonard is offline
 
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Location: Sacramento, CA
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Default Using XM Weather

There is no question that the cloud information from the XM Weather is not likely to be what you see when you get there, especially if the is no moisture associated with them. The cloud tops can be useful and the winds aloft are often a good indicator of what you will find (but not always). If you are flying VFR and have cloud issues in front of you, check the metars along your route. Seeing the weather from the ground up is quite reliable and multiple airport reports in an area gives you a near real-time clear picture of what you will encounter.

Personally, I will no longer fly cross country without having XM type information available. It's like flying cross-country without GPS... it can definitely be done but why would you? With the pop-up TFRs (especially in the West) along with visual metars, winds aloft and the flight planning information, why hobble yourself by not taking advantage of what XM offers.

Okay, there is the cost issue but hopefully ADS-B will provide a good alternative. In any case, it is well worth the investment and if it isn't telling you what you expect, maybe you need to better understand its limitations, rather than write it off as a useless function. Knowing what it can't do is just as important as knowing what it can do.
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