New life brings death to an RV project.

Updated on Post #37

First.... Matt and Stephen, please don't post this on my Facebook page. It's still under wraps with the family. But they'll never look at VAF.

So I'm driving back to the office from lunch today and my wife calls me on my cell.

Phil: Hey, babe. How are you?
Sara: I'm doing GREAT. Are you sitting down?

She didn't have to tell me any more. I knew exactly where the call was headed. Yep.

I even have photographs of the sticks to prove it.

...... and no it wasn't planned.

As reality is sinking in, I'm really starting to feel like the RV-10 project is better off in someone elses hands. With just the two of us, finding the money to finish a -10 was going to be a challenge. It was possible, but it was going to take some real financial sacrifice from both of us to do it.

With her finishing grad school this semester and the possibility of moving for her career means my money isn't going to be flowing anymore because my real earning power is pretty much tied to Houston.

Lots and lots and lots of questions that I need to get sorted out in my head.

I know many of you have already stood in the shoes I'm currently wearing. I'm intrested in hearing your stories.

I haven't decided to put the project on the market yet. We'll let a few more months go by and make sure everything is fine, then I'll make a decision.

But if you think you might be interested in purchasing an RV-10 tailcone w/QB fuse (brand new and shipping from Vans this week), let me know via PM. I'll be happy to let you come by and take a look at it.

Phil

Just think of it this way--------

now that there is going to be more than just the two of you, you need the extra seating the 10 offers.

Congrats, BTW.

Congratulations!

Kids are a wonderful blessing - and RVs can be built over a long time on an "as you go" and can afford it basis. Think of the fun you'll have teaching the sprog and it's siblings over the years the practicalities of aircraft construction and the character building attributes of perseverance, problem solving and thrift

Jim Sharkey

Before you commit to no project, consider that you need the 10 for the extra passenger/s. It won't cost much to let it sit and in a few months you will have adapted to the new lifestyle, family dynamics, and financial situation. You might even be able to make some progress working on things out of order and that fit the current budget. Maybe you can find someone with extra hangar space that can store the parts, no charge, until you make a final decision.
Good Luck

Whatcha goin to do...

What are you going to do when you cant pass the medical.... Nuthin.

Someday all of us will reach that point, at least then I wont be doing nuthin alone.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Congrats on the next arrival to the family, may you truly prosper in so many ways because of the choices you have made. Someday you will watch that little one fly solo, so keep it all together while you can.

I have a 24, 21, and 18 year old, it is the time that truly fly's

Many congrats, Phil.

I can't imagine my life without the kids in it. It's truly amazing the joy they bring. A very special day and I'm thankful you shared with us. Audrey (now 14) says she can't remember NOT having an airplane in the garage! For years she thought everyone had one <g>.

Best and congrats again,
Doug

Hey Phil.... You got my word I won't tell anyone!!!!!

You saw my wife at Bob's memorial right? She is getting ready to pop!!!

We found out about our soon to be son the day I ordered my Emp. kit. I say keep building. One of the things that has kept me sane these last 7 months has been the ability to go work on the project.

Besides..You have been waiting forever for the -10QB.Plus small hands work great for bucking rivets in hard to reach places.

-Matt

My vote, keep building the 10! Can't use Dave's spam can forever! Congrats to you my friend! I can't even imagine the day when that happens to me!

PS.. Don't worry about FB, your secret is safe with me!

Daddy has a new pair of shoes!

Congratulations Phil !!!!

Just give those new shoes a little time to break-in and they'll soon be the finest, most comfortable and rewarding shoes you'll ever have the privilege to fill. As for your -10, for every person you ask, you'll get a different opinion... and none of the opinions will be right for YOUR family. Rutan is a good example of what NOT to do! MY OPINION (since you asked)... A faith based decision that is discussed and agreed to between you and your lovely wife is always the RIGHT decision for your family... now and forevermore. Congratulations again to you and your lovely wife.

Regards,

Keep on, even if at a slower pace

at about 6 years old, they are really, really good at putting little flush rivets into little dimples for you to tape down prior to riveting.

About 3x faster than I am. I recorded times. Long breaks on the swing set while I riveted.

All the "help" may not get it done sooner, but will get it done with far more memories.

Personally, I usually have a stash of gummy worms for "helper treats". Works for us. You've got a while before you might need to lay in a stock

Congratulations. Some of the best times have been building together, airplane or other. You have a beautiful opportunity. Family first doesn't have to mean "project last" as well.

My $0.02 (a bit less due to the exchange rate)

Congrats. Your life is about to change in ways you can never imagine and will never regret.

But it sounds to me like you have about 8 months to finish that -10. You better get busy

Keep the kit!

Phil-

I don’t know you but I felt compelled to write in response to your post. If I am off-base on this, feel free to discard it or chalk it up to one more datapoint. I don’t know if it is the shock I hear in the tone of your post or a real battle of values going on within you. Shock is certainly normal but I’m one of the few people who will step up and say kids aren’t all they are cracked up to be. I’ve seriously considered writing a book on the subject which is pretty taboo in our society.

I truly have been there before….twice. I have a 10yr old and a 4yr old. Frankly, I love them both dearly and they bring lots of joy to my life on nearly a daily basis (some days suck but that’s life). My take on them is NOT that they are dream killers, but dream delayers or hurdles or challenges. As others have said here on VAF, they will make the project completion sweeter in the end. My wife has often asked me the “if you had it to do again….”question. My silence pretty well covers it. I don’t have an answer. But you know what, it doesn’t really matter. We are where we are. My wife and I weren’t even against the idea of giving up the baby but chose not to, mostly as a cosmic toss-up which we knew would keep life interesting….and it has.

Similar to your wife, when we had our first kid, my wife was about a year away from a Phd. She finished the degree around our daughter’s fifth birthday….dream delayed, but not denied.

At that time we had moved into an airpark house, I bought an RV4, life was pretty good. A year later she comes up pregnant again. This was a bit more devastating as it coincided with my business going into a serious decline. Sold the dream house, moved, new kid arrived with health complications, sold the RV, shut down the business, and I became a stay-at-home dad for 9months. Pretty crappy time overall but more due to business than kids. One bonus was the opportunity to spend a summer with the kids and no job.

Soon came a new job for the wife and a new job for me. Last year my wife bought back the very RV4 we sold. I’m the local airport manager so that is almost as good as living on an airpark. Another dream delayed, not denied.

You probably already see my words of wisdom….having kids only kills the dream if you let it. They will certainly cause the magnitudes of life’s highs and lows to be more extreme but that is part of the adventure. The truth is, there probably won't be much progress on the RV10 for some time and that is okay. It will be there, ready to go when you are.

Enjoy the ride and don’t take it too seriously.

I had the RV9 tail kit..

ordered when we found out our first child was on her way. The race was on as I did not know if I would ever have time to finish the plane when the little one came. Mom won the race and I was just getting into the fuselage. Baby was in the the harness for many hours with me in the garage as I marked material for cutting and hole locations.

That was over five years ago and now she has a little brother. The RV10 project was started to be able to take us all. If I would have been smart like you I would have just built the RV10 from the start. They both spent many hours in the garage as I worked away on the 10. After our daugters first day at preschools she asked me why no one else was building an airplane in the garage.

Both kids have now travelled from coast to coast through much of Canada and the US and they are only 3 and 5. They just love to go flying. The best feeling is getting to share this great hobby with them.

Keep building, who cares if you have to slow down and put it away for a while. There is a very large part of the project that requires only time and not money. In the long run you will be much happier you kept at it to share your hobby with your kids. (Hope you are OK with me saying kids!!)

Last month my daughter asked me to land on the cloud below, how much better does it get.

Unless.....

Unless the project creates complete financial disaster, don't get rid of it. You will need a diversion from life and such a project will recharge the batteries. You've got many months before birth and then you'll have plenty of time to work on the plane during naps, or when the wife and kid are out.

I raised two boys that are both very successful. We were involved in every activity as the boys grew up. I was in law enforcement and worked shift work for many years adding additional stress. My out was building and flying RC planes. It truly saved me emotionally. It wasn't work and it wasn't family. I always came out of the shop refreshed and ready for whatever was next.

As the boys got older, they would come out in the shop and I'd set them up with something to do. They loved it.

So, don't sell. USE the project as a tool to IMPROVE every aspect of your life. Keep it in perspective regarding both time and financially and you will be rewarded.

Financial aspects of kids

If I could go back in time and give myself one financial lesson from before I had my kids, it would be to not fall into the trap of believing that having kids must cost a lot of money. You and your wife will feel lots of pressure to spend tons of money on useless junk. 99% of the stuff we bought was used for about 3-6 months, and is now either collecting dust in the basement, given away to friends, or in the trash heap. There is this assumption that kids will stay a certain size for a long time, but it really ends up being about 5 minutes. Do kids grow like weeds? No, weeds grow much more slowly. Same with the toys - they are fun for about a day or two. I now let the grandparents buy the toys.

Don't give up so fast!!

RV7Guy said:

As the boys got older, they would come out in the shop and I'd set them up with something to do. They loved it.

So, don't sell. USE the project as a tool to IMPROVE every aspect of your life. Keep it in perspective regarding both time and financially and you will be rewarded.

Click to expand...

I had the very same experience as most of the responders, when I was building my Long-EZ. My boys were in diapers when I was building... I put them to work and they loved it! Dad time!! See the pics here and see for yourself how it can be!! http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerv9a/LEZConstrPics#

I feel you. I found out we're expecting our 2nd Sunday. We currently have a 9 month old and he's a full time gig. My wife finished her second graduate degree just after he was born and I'm currently working on mine.

FWIW, I would try to unload the QB fuse for what you've got in it and order the slow build. That's my intent, slow build everything. Work on it as the money and time permit.

Also...the best advice I was given when we found out about our 1st was the heads up that EVERYONE was going to have advice for you, to politely say 'thank you' and do what you feel is right. They were right, EVERYONE does have something to say and WILL tell you!

Scott

Don't do anything!!

Phil,
I panicked when my wife told me she was leaving. I quickly decided I'd sell the house, get a smaller car...etc. That's when a good friend told me to simply hold it....stop...don't do anything so fast. Wait at least a coupla months and in the meantime, plan and think. You're still in shock mode and a few weeks will clear the brain....that's what I found.

In the end, I sold nothing and life's great.

Regards,

DeltaRomeo said:

Many congrats, Phil.

I can't imagine my life without the kids in it. It's truly amazing the joy they bring. A very special day and I'm thankful you shared with us. Audrey (now 14) says she can't remember NOT having an airplane in the garage! For years she thought everyone had one <g>.

Best and congrats again,
Doug

Click to expand...

Kids are great, grand kids are the best! It is hard to look down the road and understand the challenges and joys to come when you start having kids.

Phil, Having kids is not a jail sentance! They will bring you more joy that you can possibly imagine. These are human beings coming through you to join the world! You get to shape them into young adults! It is a good thing! Don't start altering your life style until you know what you need to change. Take a deep breath, enjoy your wife being PG, start picking out names. RELAX! Congrats!

Just don't name your kid;
Oshkosh
Clecko
RV
Van's
Kit
Experimental
Aurura

pierre smith said:

Phil,
I panicked when my wife told me she was leaving. I quickly decided I'd sell the house, get a smaller car...etc. That's when a good friend told me to simply hold it....stop...don't do anything so fast. Wait at least a coupla months and in the meantime, plan and think. You're still in shock mode and a few weeks will clear the brain....that's what I found.

In the end, I sold nothing and life's great.

Regards,

Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmmm. How did you get her to leave without taking every thing?


I'm just kidding honey!

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans.

I should finish my 6A this weekend, 12 years in the making. My girls are now 17 and 19. My wife is looking forward to parking her car in the garage for the first time in 12 years. Work on the project was sometimes sporadic, sometimes neglected, but always available. Building an airplane is great therapy, and as others have noted, your kids will wonder why everyone else doesn't have one in their garage.

Building the airframe takes a long time and the expense can be spread out. I certainly loved the project and expect "post partum depression" with the empty garage. If you keep at it, I don't think you'll regret it.

Thanks everyone...

Yeah, I'm still in shock. Kids were never in my plan, but God just showed me who's boss. Just when you think 'your' plan is coming together, you realize it's never 'your' plan.

I'm still undecided on the future of finishing the 10. With the added strain on time and cash, I can see where the project may take another 6-7 years and I'm not sure I want to wait that long.

I'm tempted to convert the project to cash and keep saving. Then go ahead with a spam can purchase (Bonanza or similar) in another couple of years after the kiddo gets old enough to travel with in the airplane.

Speaking of that, at what age were your kids able to travel in an unpressurized airplane? I would think they would need decent muscle control to clear their ears and handle any bumps.

Phil

Phil said:

Speaking of that, at what age were your kids able to travel in an unpressurized airplane? I would think they would need decent muscle control to clear their ears and handle any bumps.

Phil

Click to expand...

My daughter flew at 2 weeks.

Life happens...

Phil, stuff happens.....welcome the the world of life. There will always be something else to buy or support, or the save for....You have to make choices in life. Kids and marrage and houses and cars and the rest of your life will continue whether you have the -10 project going or not. Keep the -10 and work on it when you can. Before you know it, the kids will have grown, but you will have a plane that you didn't give up on and built yourself......

Phil,

I guess I'll throw in my own 2 cents worth. About 6 months back I learned that my then girlfriend was pregnant. This was certainly not planned, but I was cool with it and have grown to be quite excited about the whole thing. Shortly after finding out, I bought a ring (ouch!), proposed (she said yes), got married and purchased a house. All of this in the span of several weeks. Shortly before all this, I had moved my 10 year project to the airport and was about to begin a big push to finish. All that really remained was to paint and attach the wings, final rig, and paperwork. Well, with all the new concerns, it just became too much stress. I sold the project for a good price to a really nice guy with a great family and it flew a few weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqiqwxJUXeo

I was there for the first flight and was thrilled to see it go. I'm not gonna lie and say it wasn't a little sad, but mostly I was thrilled that it worked and very happy for the new owner.

So how do I feel now? Well, seeing that thing fly reminded me how much I want an airplane and also how much I love building. I thought about getting back into building furniture or guitars, but the truth is I've got this dang airplane disease and the only prescription is another project. I've already ordered plans for a Hatz Classic and will start as soon as I can. I know it's gonna be slow going with that little critter pooping himself ten times a day, but it is what it is. I just know that if I don't do it, I'll look back and wish I had.

The only practical advice I can give is to wait a while unless you either need the cash or see some great opportunity to sell. Best of luck with everything.

Build on, brother...
You won't start running into the serious bucks until you start with the engine and avionics. Just imagine what will be out there from which to choose when it is time to buy your panel!
I started building my -8 when my little girl was two. We would go to the local airport with a butterfly net and a field guide and I would have her catching bugs and identifying them. After awhile, she began to leave the butterfly net at home and we would just "go" together, sit and talk about whatever she wanted to talk about. She started hanging out with me in the shop at night. She would take her homework out there and do her work along my side at night. Soon, she began to pick up tools and ask about them. She became my little helper. She is now almost 11 and just witnessed my first flight. She has become my biggest cheerleader and has turned into the airport Pollyanna. I'm not sure where my daughter and I will end up after the teen years, but I sure as heck feel blessed with the way that things are at the moment. My wife tells folks that she has lost both a husband and daughter to aviation. Build on, brother...you won't regret it.

my daughter flew....

Mike S said:

My daughter flew at 2 weeks.

Click to expand...

My youngest daughter flew at -one day. Yep, wife went into labor and delivered the next day. I attribute it to several bumpy landings on a gusty day in Tennessee.

re: I say buuild on.....

...unless you need the cash.
I'm in exactly the opposite situation. I started on my -10 when the girls were little, hoping to be able to all go flying as a family. Well, the oldest daughter, (20) is in college, loves to ride motorcycles, as does the wife. The other one is 14, is cheerleading and riding motorcycles. We have bought a 2008 Goldwing, a 2008 California Sidecar Goldwing trike conversion, and a 250 Rebel, all within this past year. The wife side of the family would rather ride bikes than fly, the kids are getting their pilots licenses in our 150. So, my mission has changed. I'm going to try to sell the -10 project, keep all my tools, and later, build an RV9a or possibly a -12. With the kids in school, I simply can't afford to finish the -10. I own my own business and it's slowed way down.
Anyone interested in the -10 project, give me a call, (405) 417-6077. It's way past quick build stage, no wiring started, top is on, wings finished as is the empennage.

Marshall Alexander
OKC, OK

Phil said:

Thanks everyone...

I'm tempted to convert the project to cash and keep saving. Then go ahead with a spam can purchase (Bonanza or similar) in another couple of years after the kiddo gets old enough to travel with in the airplane.

Phil

Click to expand...

If you think that you'll be able to afford to purchase, insure, store, and maintain a Bonanza in a couple of years or so, you should definitely be able to afford to keep going on the -10. Keep in mind that if you find a plane like a Bonanza for a "good deal" odds are that you are going to spend a fortune in maintenance the first few years that you own it.

Skylor
RV-8 QB
Under Construction

Phil, there is nothing like being a DAD......you'll know what i mean soon...priorities will come to you naturally..but I like skylors comments the best...you are in for a great ride dude!! congrats!!

Robb...7A wings almost done

First, congratulations!

Second, I suggest you keep flying and, if possible, build. If you love flying enough to be building a -10, you're not going to be happy giving up flying, even for very good reasons. If you don't tend to your own needs, you can't tend to others' needs.

Fly and build to the extent that your budget and schedule allows, but FLY. Giving up on the -10 project might be the right thing to do - only you can say. My thought is no - the -10 is going to be a perfect family get-away machine. The family that does things together stays together. Those that don't .....

Finally, make sure that you discuss the risks of flying with your family. You have new responsibilities now, and buying the farm while flying has new implications. Make sure everyone is happy with those risks.

TODR

Don't Be Too Hasty . . .

Phil, first off, I gotta agree with Other Doug - have a straight talk with the wife about how she views flying risks now that there are kids in the picture.

Assuming she is OK with it, I say - keep building. You can spread the cost over many years, and the airframe costs are fairly modest. It will give you a hobby and time for yourself. Would you be happy saving and buying a SPAM can later? Maybe . . . but you will always be wondering about that -10 you might have had.

I started my slowbuild -6 in January 1995. Looking back, I can't remember if I knew Laurie was pregnant then or not. Anyway, in July 1995 my twin daughters Grace and Emma arrived. Then, 18 months later, I found myself lying in bed at night, contemplating the fact that I was the sole breadwinner in the family, with a couple tiny kids, and was preparing to leave the law firm I had been at for 5 years and start my own firm with my partner Tom. Will the clients be there? Will we have work? Am I making a huge mistake?

Well, Tom and I took the plunge, and are now in our 13th year of partnership, with a steady, longstanding client base and plenty of work along the way. The -6 got finished in 2004 and is approaching its 5th anniversary in the air. To me, the fact that I persevered over the long haul and got the bird done - while keeping more or less happily married, trying to be a good father, and building and managing a law practice - is something I am really proud of. Because it would have been so easy to sell the project, or never finish it, etc.....

Whatever you decide, there is no need to do it in haste. Take your time. I bet you keep that -10 project and we'll be reading of your first flight here before too many more years pass by. Trust me - they go fast!

Phil -

I have no experience building (yet). I do have two kids.

My "hobby" when they were born was hard-core RC aerobatics. Minimum commitment per flying session was two hours. Drive to the field, assemble, fly, clean up, disassemble, drive home.

Yes, a baby is going to eat up all of your time. Yes, it's awesome. Yes, you WILL NEED something to do with yourself for stress relief. There will be lots of stress. Assuming the financial end of building doesn't add to the stress, seems to me building an aircraft, a little at a time, whenever you have a moment to work on it would be a great way for both of you to focus on something else every now and then and relax.

My vote is keep the project and slow it down. You're going to need something like it, and I'll bet there's nothing better.

ff

My daughter started flying..

with me at 18 months in the RV9. She was really good with leaving the head set on from the start. My son hated the headset and only started flying regularly with me once the RV10 was finished so at about 2.5. He is fine with the headset now but it took about 20 hours before he was OK with it. No fuss now, he has about 70hrs of RV10 time.

Mom sits in the back with one and me in the front with the other. This is mainly for saftey. If they loose a headset we are there to help and in the event of an emergency we are there as well.

Sure can't wait when she can be up front with me and the kids are by them selves in the back watching the DVD. A couple of more year for that I think.

Congratulations!

We have no build experience. We have 2 kids and 1 on the way. We're buying tools and hope to have a tail kit in the house on 10-1. We're in no hurry and hope to completely involve the kids to the extent possible. What could be better quality time (I hate cliche's, but I fear it fits here) than building with the entire family?

Take your time with this decision, and best of luck to the whole family!

Michael

I have two girls (4,2) I have been building since before the first one was even thought of. I have rebuilt two bathrooms, moved to a new house, finished a unfinished room, changed jobs, felt a very wide range of emotions along the way. One of the highs would not have happened without my oldests help. It was simply a time where I needed a third hand and she was there to hold a wrench that I put in place for her. It was just a bulkhead fuel fitting and I just wanted to snug it in place. She was holding the wrench when it slipped off the nut, I thought Id have to put the wrench back in place when my then 3 yr old daughter said "wait dad, ok now go ahead" She had taken that wrench and put it back on without being told what needed to happen. !
This may not make sense to some (those without kids) but I tell you it was a proud daddy moment.
Another tidbit of advice is to build for the sake of building not flying. You will enjoy the ride much more if you dont hold yourself to some schedule and just enjoy the ride for what it is. Your kids will grow alot faster than you think and the pictures of your build will document that fact.
Just dont miss out on being a dad/husband for more time in the shop, the kid(s) will eventually be able to hang in the shop and then help and you will have a blast sharing that experience.
My vote is keep the project, Life happens to all of us. How many people in the history of the world can say that they built a flying machine? Just keep at it a little at a time, I now have pieces in the garage that even laypeople reconize as an airplane and sometime (hopefully soon) Ill get to the holly grail and get to pilot my own creation.
Congrats on the new quick build on the way!(could be classed as a slow build 18yrs as well)

One of my pet peeves is when an old, dead, and buried thread is resurrected. However I just wanted to follow-up on this discussion because some of you will find yourself in the same shoes I was wearing.

We had a little boy on April 26th named Landon. If I told you life was easy for the first few months I'd be lying. It sucked. But about the time he turned 3 months old we really started to hit it off.

I didn't want any part of kids, but now I couldn't imagine missing all of these times. Landon made it to Oshkosh in his very first year and we're hoping this is a tradition we can keep throughout his years in our household.

After the dust settled I still have a RV-10 project in the garage. It's really making great progress (even with a 100% layoff during his first few months). I do feel guilty about spending time working on the plane when he's awake though. I don't want to miss anything.

Some of you folks aren't too far behind me in life and you will be getting the same news about an unexpected baby joining the family. Never fear, life is great, and your project will still be there waiting for you (patiently).

You don't want to miss the opportunity.

Phil







http://phillipandsaraperry.blogspot.com/

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Phil, congrats on your son.

It took me close to a year after my daughter was born to finally decide that having a kid was a worthwhile endeavor.

She just turned 23 last month, and those 22+ years have been well worthwhile.

She is getting married in 21/2 weeks now------time flys quite rapidly.

Enjoy the time you have with him------in 20 years, you will wonder where it all went.

BTW, I just love this photo.

Phil said:

Thanks everyone...

Yeah, I'm still in shock. Kids were never in my plan, but God just showed me who's boss. Just when you think 'your' plan is coming together, you realize it's never 'your' plan.

Click to expand...

Phil said:

Now you are thinking straight . I have 6 kids and wouldn't give a one of them back . I'm 56 years old now and nothing in my life turned out the way I plane it . Am I ever glad it didn't.

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Congratulations on your son. My daughter was born as I was getting into the wiring and final tasks of my RV-9A. I did manage to get it flying within 1.5 years of her birth, but the financial toll has been substantial. Now that she's in daycare, the financial burden is very real.

If you can finish the RV, that's great. If you can't, don't regret it. Your son will bring you more happiness and fulfillment than your RV ever would. I sort of figure there are two phases of life when it makes a lot of sense to build an RV... before you have kids, and after the kids are grown (even after you retire). If you manage to make lots of progress between those times, great, but my advice would be to spend as much time with your son as you can. This was advice another builder gave me on this forum when my daughter was born, and it's very true. You won't regret a minute you spend away from the project if those are more minutes you are spending with your son.

Enjoy fatherhood!

Congratulations.

Now, one thing from a guy whose kids are now in their 20s.

NEVER -- EVER -- get yourself into a position when you're working on an RV project instead of sitting at their T-ball, little league or soccer practice or games.