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I promise never to.....

P

Paul the Overlord

Well Known Member
Hi Gang,

I'm a very cautious 1000 hour (500 in airplanes, 500 in ultralights) pilot. Maybe too cautious, maybe even a bit fearful of "the unknown". I have canceled flights because the violate my "rules". I have fairly conservative personal limits and never intentionally violate them. I'm always thinking about safety and try to train for emergencies. I have a personal "I'll never do that list". These are the big ones, and I'm sure there are many others. Here are some of the things on my list:

Never fly if I don't feel 100% physically/mentally ready
Always land with 1 hour of fuel
Never fly in/through weather that's even moderately bad
Never VFR into IMC
Never scud run
Never fly the plane with any "flight issue" squawks
I do not fly formation (Not trained to do so)
No acro... yet (although I would do loops/rolls with training)
Always standard pattern entry
Always use flight following on X-country/file
Never fly with unsafe pilots (I did this when I was a new pilot, never again).


With the recent crashes I think we, as a community, really need to help each other fly more safely. I wonder how many pilots would still be with us if they had a list like mine. I realize that some items on my list are things others do safely... so... *please* this thread is not meant to start a "well I do that and I'M safe" kinda thing, or to single out any one incident. What I'm curious about is what do you do? I don't want to read about any more people I know getting hurt/killed when it's almost completely preventable. One last thing.. and this is a tough one. Many of pilots tend to be type A, super macho, "I can do anything" kind of people. It does a great disservice to new pilots who look up to them. I have head so many stories about pilots doing dumb things in airplanes. At the end the pilot will kinda smile and behave as if they did something "cool" instead of realizing they did something stupid and were bragging about it. Again, not trying to ruffle any feathers... Tell me how you and I can be safer pilots. What's on your list?
 
That's easy, Paul

...Assume nothing.

Don't assume the gas gauges are telling the truth...verify by looking.

Don't assume there's plenty of oil...look.

Don't assume because the weather's reported clear that there won't be fog on arrival (Three souls were killed going to the Atlanta 500 from north of Atlanta to south Atlanta)

Don't believe winds aloft forecasts and scrimp on gas because of it.

Don't assume that because Joe Blo did a roll on takeoff you can too. (Another fatality in an -8 recently).

Regards,
 
Low level aerobatics

Yes I've been tempted..Yes I know I can do a low pass inverted..I know that a hammerhead off the deck is no big deal..

But I just won't do it...My inverted spin from a botched hammerhead proved to me that perhaps I'm not as good as i think I am.

Frank
 
Paul the Overlord said:
Hi Gang,
With the recent crashes I think we, as a community, really need to help each other fly more safely. I wonder how many pilots would still be with us if they had a list like mine. I realize that some items on my list are things others do safely... so... *please* this thread is not meant to start a "well I do that and I'M safe" kinda thing, or to single out any one incident. What I'm curious about is what do you do? I don't want to read about any more people I know getting hurt/killed when it's almost completely preventable. One last thing.. and this is a tough one. Many of pilots tend to be type A, super macho, "I can do anything" kind of people. It does a great disservice to new pilots who look up to them. I have head so many stories about pilots doing dumb things in airplanes. At the end the pilot will kinda smile and behave as if they did something "cool" instead of realizing they did something stupid and were bragging about it. Again, not trying to ruffle any feathers... Tell me how you and I can be safer pilots. What's on your list?
Click to expand...


I think your attitude is more important than the list, it sounds like you have a conservative attitude.

do you have a risk evaluation plan to use if you want to break one of your rules?

where i live flight following is not always available due to radar coverage, so i'm used to flights without it. I trained in LA airspace and always used it, if it is available i would generally use it. Will they do flight following for a sightseeing trip, where you want to circle things?
 
Exceptionally excellent thread Paul!

Rule #1. FLY THE AIRPLANE Airspeed is everything After take off, fly the airplane! No unintentional stalls EVER! Fly the airplane! Landing is not optional (unless you are on the Space Shuttle, in which case Paul is gonna have a lot of paperwork to do.;)) If you loose power your are gonna land, might as well be a controlled landing rather than be a rock. Rocks are dumb, don't be a rock. Fly the airplane!

Rule #2. Follow Paul's rules!

Rule #3. WHEN the engine quits refer to Rule #1.
 
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"Hope is not a Plan!" If you hear yourself thinking "I hope this will work", then you have already headed down an incorrect path of action - get yourself out!
 
Out of rhythm

I find that many of my mistakes happen because I got out of the normal way and sequence of doing things. Someone asked a question at a bad time and instead of telling them not now, I answered it and went on with what I was doing only to find out later, I missed something. I have a nice panel that I can push the pilot isolate button when I need to and not even have to acknowledge an inquiry. Of course I explain this in the preflight breifing.

Another distraction is people around the plane when you are ready to leave. OSH and Young Eagles flights come to mind, everyone has a million questions and want to take that last picture or want to tell you about their friend of a friend who does this or that. I have not found a really good way to discourage that though, any thoughts.

Gary Specketer
RV10 Flying
 
All of Paul's rules are very good. I apply all of them to myself. My personal favorite rules are:

No matter what the problem is, FLY THE AIRPLANE!
Power and altitude are your friends, every thing else will kill you.
 
great responses

One thing that I always do as I'm turning on the active is to say to myself...

"WHEN the engine fails (not if) I will do XXX (depending on altitude, I mentally calculate 500 and 1000 ft agl off the ALT and say it to myself as I pass through those altitudes) and will turn into the wind (if there is a crosswind) and what I'll do after a big push on the stick. I also use "lights, camera (transponder) and engine (fuel, and mixture for me). A flow check with a written checklist verification is my routine. With some things like fuel, flaps and flight controls checks being done more than once (with a visual check if possible). I do all of this verbally even if I'm alone.
 
Prioritize!

Gary 40274 said:
I find that many of my mistakes happen because I got out of the normal way and sequence of doing things. Someone asked a question at a bad time and instead of telling them not now, I answered it and went on with what I was doing only to find out later, I missed something. I have a nice panel that I can push the pilot isolate button when I need to and not even have to acknowledge an inquiry. Of course I explain this in the preflight breifing.

Another distraction is people around the plane when you are ready to leave. OSH and Young Eagles flights come to mind, everyone has a million questions and want to take that last picture or want to tell you about their friend of a friend who does this or that. I have not found a really good way to discourage that though, any thoughts.

Gary Specketer
RV10 Flying
Click to expand...

To your first point, relying on "rhythm" by itself isn't a good plan. Coming up with a practiced "flow," and orderly way of accomplishing the required tasks, is fine but you have to back it up with a checklist. The human mind hates repetition and will leave things out no matter how many times you have done the task. On your second point, welcome to being a pilot! Seriously, all I can offer after 40+ years doing it is work on being able to put yourself in "the zone" when it is time to fly. Practice prioritizing the important stuff and ignoring the trivia.

John Clark ATP, CFI
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Danny7 said:
I think your attitude is more important than the list, it sounds like you have a conservative attitude.

do you have a risk evaluation plan to use if you want to break one of your rules?
Click to expand...

No, because I treat my rules as unbreakable, as long as they are in effect. I'd like to get some acro training. I would then change that rule. It's my "diet philosophy". I'm trying to decrease the load my airplane has to haul around. I do OK as long as I don't snack at all. I can't have just one potato chip, so I don't have any.
 
Ironflight said:
"Hope is not a Plan!" If you hear yourself thinking "I hope this will work", then you have already headed down an incorrect path of action - get yourself out!
Click to expand...

Paul,

I agree. There have been a few times when something didn't feel right and I was tempted to go ahead anyway, but if I hear "that little voice" in my head, I *already* know what the answer is.
 
Gary 40274 said:
I find that many of my mistakes happen because I got out of the normal way and sequence of doing things. Someone asked a question at a bad time and instead of telling them not now, I answered it and went on with what I was doing only to find out later, I missed something. I have a nice panel that I can push the pilot isolate button when I need to and not even have to acknowledge an inquiry. Of course I explain this in the preflight breifing.

Another distraction is people around the plane when you are ready to leave. OSH and Young Eagles flights come to mind, everyone has a million questions and want to take that last picture or want to tell you about their friend of a friend who does this or that. I have not found a really good way to discourage that though, any thoughts.

Gary Specketer
RV10 Flying
Click to expand...

Gary,

Good point. I have found that when I forget something it's usually because something else has distracted me. Usually pattern related (an airplane entering in a non standard way etc...). Sometimes things get quite busy and a little crazy at my airport. At that point I will yield my right of way or just fly South for a while and let things settle down.
 
John Clark said:
To your first point, relying on "rhythm" by itself isn't a good plan. Coming up with a practiced "flow," and orderly way of accomplishing the required tasks, is fine but you have to back it up with a checklist. The human mind hates repetition and will leave things out no matter how many times you have done the task. On your second point, welcome to being a pilot! Seriously, all I can offer after 40+ years doing it is work on being able to put yourself in "the zone" when it is time to fly. Practice prioritizing the important stuff and ignoring the trivia.

John Clark ATP, CFI
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. A check list is manditory, I didn't mean to imply that this was happening without one, just poor communication skills. With paper checklists I do find on occasion some distraction will make me skip a checklist item and not notice it. The Garmin 900 has a neat system that allows you to move the highlighter down the list and keep track of everything.

Gary Specketer
RV10 Flying
 
I promise....

all good advice.......and humbling to hear that a 1000-hr. pilot has the same fears as I do!
other than the mechanical, some of which ARE avoidable, occurences, everything else happens IN the cockpit.
I find reading about CRM, & training that the airlines use, can only improve the way I handle myself and issues that arise in the course of a flight.
How much safer would we be if our trusty co-pilot followed on our walk-around?
....and read and checked off each item the checklist?
and called out altitudes and airspeed as we climbed or descended for landing?
...if we don't have one, we have to ensure we listen to the 'little voice' you allude to.
 
I promise to never assume the plane is how I left it. I will always do a preflight inspection.
 
DeltaRomeo said:
I promise to never assume the plane is how I left it. I will always do a preflight inspection.
Click to expand...

Right on Doug. A few years ago I was invited to go flying with a guy on my field. He owns a Piper that nobody else flies but him. He pulled the plane out and climb in beckoning me to join him. I said not without a preflight. He pulled the door closed and left me there. I felt kinda stupid at that moment and like a bit of a weenie. Not any more.
 
Just learned this morning

A buddy of mine just totalled his 172 in Mccall Idaho..He ran out of fuel!

The mind boggles but it happens all the time

Frank
 
When I approach an aircraft that I am getting ready to fly, I get just a little bit tense...heart rate increases a bit. I tell myself that the machine is like a loaded gun...it is indifferent to how it is being used- only I have the power to make sure that it is going to be used in a safe manner. I guess some would say that I am afraid of the machine, but the truth is that I am more afraid of myself. My secret hope is that if I do something stupid while flying that ends up hurting me or the machine, I hope that at least I came up with something new instead of the things that everyone else does over and over like running out of fuel or base to final stall/spin.
 
Hi,

I think that in some cases the terms fear and respect are synonymous. I think there is something to the airplane/gun analogy. I took the Minnesota CCW class earlier this year and one of the instructors was also a pilot. If he played the guitar I'm sure we would still be yapping!
 
Paul the Overlord said:
Right on Doug. A few years ago I was invited to go flying with a guy on my field. He owns a Piper that nobody else flies but him. He pulled the plane out and climb in beckoning me to join him. I said not without a preflight. He pulled the door closed and left me there. I felt kinda stupid at that moment and like a bit of a weenie. Not any more.
Click to expand...

Don't feel stupid on something like that. I go out every evening and clean the airplane, a small squart bottle of cleaner and a rag and clean off bugs and do an inspection. After each flight I open the oil door, does two things, it lets the heat out, the other it causes me to check the oil on start up. I have a little flat flash light that goes in my pocket, when I check the oil I take the light and look in at what I can. On the next day I pull out the plane and listen to the brakes and bearings as it rolls, I constantly eye ball the wheels and the tail sections as I pull it out. When I start the engine, I have the headphones OFF my head, so I can listen for anything unusual.

I take flying serious. I have a check list, but I also kind of do a clockwise inspection starting at the canopy lock and go around after the check list to make sure everything is secure before take off. Now this doesn't mean that I take a half hour at the beginning of the runway, nope. I'm pretty fast on getting out of here. I just take my time seriously and make sure my attentions are on flying.

Oh, and I had a neighbor one time that would open the t-hangar and start his cessna and pull out of the hangar and go right out to the runway and take off, no inspection what so ever. I hated that.

Kind of reminds me also of a tail dragger cessna that was about to take off with the tow bar dragging behind
 
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Not always so cut and dry

Paul,

I sincerely respect your attitude, but how far can you really take some of these concepts. I'm going to play devils advocate, but only to show that some of these aren't really that cut and dry. I'm not however trying to pick a fight, just show that at some point you have to take what you get in the real world.

For example, if you had taken off and called for flight following but due to an excessive workload the controllers could not oblige. Would you land and try again later? This is effectively the same decision at this point as it was 5 minutes prior when you decided to go.

The same goes for say your autopilot. If it acts up in flight do you continue your vacation or just pack it in and forget about your plans, reservations, and all the prep and planning that went into your vacation? Or can, or will you continue knowing that your judgement will keep you safe and out of a life or death situation where you might need autopilot. Or, to take it even farther. If you don't go because of a squawk of an autopilot would you take another plane with no autopilot that is squawk free?

What is the definition of scud running to you? In my area there is a summer weather pattern that has an overcast come in at night yielding a 1,500' ceiling almost every morning. Following a freeway for 5 minutes or so will yield warmer air and blue skies just down the road a bit. This freeway goes up a valley that is roughly sea level and there in an airport about 5 minutes flight time in that direction. There are also virtual ceilings all over my area that are shown on my home chart as rings around class C's and a class B. I go under those and they may as well be an overcast.

Well that is enough to get the concept across. While judgement is likely the single greatest factor that will keep us alive sometimes we cannot simply deal in absolutes when flying. It is a dynamic and changing envirement and we have to make desisions as things come up. Like you I try to adhere to common sense, common decency, and regard for my fellow aviatiors safety as well as my own. With that said...

This last point is a reference point. There is always somebody with even more rigid minimums than our own. Naturally we see ourselves as the standard and everybody else is a variant on this. They are either "Loose, or reckless compared with ourselves, which we base on our own experience," or they are "Uptight" which the more reckless folks often wrongly see as inexperienced. Anyway, here is your data point. Honest, as God is my witness I have a friend that when doing his night currency filed a flight plan which he opened in flight while doing pattern work without ever leaving the traffic pattern. I wouldn't have dreamed that you could even do this. I'm not making fun of him right now, but I'm still completely at a loss for words when I think of this.

Thoughts???
 
If somebody or something interrupts you while you are going through the checklist you restart the checklist from beginning.
 
Some thoughts

Paul, some of your thoughts are good but leaves no room for adaptability as Bryan mentioned. You can certainly have guidelines but need to have flexibility within them.

I fly helicopters for a living. At night we use NVG's and are usually 500-1000 ft AGL, sometimes over pretty hostile territory. (Desert SW mountains) At these altitudes we've got 20-30 seconds till impact, good or bad, if something goes wrong. Read the next carefully. It applies to all phases of aviation.

YOU MUST HAVE 100% KNOWLEDGE OF EMERGENCY PROCEDURES, 100% OF THE TIME.

When fit hits the shan, there is no time for checklists. You must know what to do NOW. For this reason I believe everyone MUST commit to memory the EP's that could occur in their airframe. Certainly, you can't cover everything but you should make up a list of possibilities and an EP for each. Then practice them and commit to memory.

You will be a better pilot, a safer pilot and ultimately more fun. Knowledge is power and safety when it comes to aviation.
 
Bryan and Darwin - you both are absolutely correct in that there will always be exceptions to rule, but in my opinion, the point here is not Paul's actual rules - those will vary from person to person and for a particular person as they gain experience. The point I take away from this thread is that everyone needs to establish their own personal rules - period. And....it is important for each of us to understand the rules we set, and when they are applicable, and when not.

In my business, we write "Flight Rules" which we try to live by - but the rules themselves are not as important as the rationale behind the rules - because the rationale tell us if the rule is applicable in a particular case or not.

No, it is not simple - but it is no harder than you choose to make it. I can find an exception to every rule ever written - that doesn't negate their value.

Of course, you know the rhetorical rule..."NEVER use absolutes!" ;)

Paul
 
One more thing

Paul...You listed 11..let me add one more:
#12:
Regardless of the peer pressure, I vow NEVER to allow anyone to talk me out of the first 11.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul"....
Invictus, William Ernst Henley
 
Right under our noses

There is some great safety info right under our noses. I printed several articles and read them when I have a minute or two. Most were written by Van himself so they relate directly to the RV's. They include formation flying, getting to fly-ins safely, flying behind the power curve, aerobatics, etc.

http://www.vansairforce.net/safety.htm

Webb Wilmot has a thread going on weather flying that is great, I learn a lot from listening to other cross country fliers especially when they explain their rational behind their decisions:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=44584

AOPA online courses are also very educational:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/online_courses/

I promise to never stop learning. I believe in setting personal minimums that I change as I gain experience. I also get very scared around unsafe pilots. It almost cost me my life, but that is a long story.
 
No List

- I look at the weather on the internet when possible AND get a standard briefing from Flight Service - the weather scares me I don't fly - but I try very hard to find a safe route to where I want to go - usually but not always I can find a way
- If some safety of flight item is defective I get it fixed before I fly
- I always fill the tanks before a cross country flight and I monitor the fuel with the gages and conservative burn rate versus time manual recording
- I plan the flights and think them through before flying and consider inflight options before takeoff to get myself mentally prepared for the flight
- I maintain a manual flight log as I fly and use dead reckoning, pilotage and VORs to supplement the GPS navigation
- I never do anything but fly the plane when I fly - that is my entertainment - no music, etc.
- I monitor the flight and system instruments and pay attention to anything that seems unusual
- If there is a critical failure in flight I fly the plane accordingly to resolve the problem as safely as possible with the greatest chance of survival

Flying is dangerous - I know it - but I do not let that drive me into a mode of operation that is so conservative that flying is no longer practical. I use flying primarily for transportation and my margins do not include unnecessary "no go" prohibitions to making planned trips.

Bob Axsom
 
Much of the flying that I do is very high risk. I acknowledge that risk and try very hard to drive the unnecessary risk out of it. But I am not perfect... It is a struggle.....

Here is an example, The Lycoming in the Rocket is a much more dependable than a Merlin in a Mustang. Too make matters much worse, the off airport survivablility of the Rocket is much better than the Mustang. Combining these factors makes the Rocket a much lower risk operation than a Mustang, but I still fly the Mustang...

So what steps can I take to mitigate the risk of an engine failure out of flying Mustang?

Here are a couple risk mitigation strategies:
O2.... O2 allows higher cruise altitudes. The Mustang has a 15-1 glide ratio and that means that at 17,000 ft (in the Midwest) the area I can land in after an engine failure is as big as the President's TFR.... Who cant find 4000 feet of concrete inside a circle that big in all but the western half of North and South Dakota, and there are lots of wheat fields there that would work pretty well.

Oil testing... Not every time, but once in a while oil testing will catch an impending failure.... A broken ring or an accessory case bearing will often make metal for a long time before a catostrophic failure occurs.

If you get a group of peers together and brainstorm risks and how to reduce the exposure with out compromising the mission you can come up with lots of ways to drive the risks out of flying.

Fortunately, the risk of an engine failure in an Lycoming powered airplane is really low and if our current rate of engine failure accidents, not associated with fuel starvation, was the biggest risk in flying RVs and Rockets, we would have a very safe mode of transportation....

Unfortunately the things we need to focus on flying RVs and Rockets, and Mustangs, is of a more personal nature.... Manuvering flight (read buzzing and acro.... Lack of proficiency..... Weather.....

These are the ones that most often get us and our friends, and they are harder to talk about... And even more difficult to change our behaviors....

Talking about it on the internet if fine, but talking about it in the hangar among peers that we trust enought to be honest with us, and who will hold us accountable, is much more effective.....

Using the risk mitigation model above get some Pizza and Beer and have a safety meeting at your airport hangout.....

Here is how it goes.... First off, you need a "talking stick" It is not needed at first, but once the discussion gets going it is essential. This is an object that is passed around and no one can speak unless they are holding the "talking stick." A hammer, beer bottle, anything that's handy will work.... On second thought, the hammer and beer bottles could be weapons, bad idea, get a short stick ;-)

Start the discussion with this question... What is the most likely scenario where someone at our airport gets hurt. You don't have to use the name of the individual, just the scenario... Everyone has to answer.

After that has gone on for a while, then everyone has to answer the next question... "What is the most likely scenario that I get hurt"

Don't invite anyone you dont trust to be honest and once you warm this up you will have some real good dicussions.... I have participated in this at some airshows and it can be a late evening.

A bunch of Warbird guys were doing this around a fire one night and one guy who was know to have a little too much fun flying Warbirds, said, "You know what, you guys are right, I will clean up my act in the Bomber, But I can still have fun in my Super Cub!!!!" Thirty days later he was doing a show off take-off in the Cub and it stalled and he was killed and his passenger was seriously injured..... In retrospect, we should not have been satisfied with his answer, but maybe our discussion saved a Bomber... I dont know, but i will never forget that night.... And maybe it saved some other pilots and airplanes....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
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Get there-itis can kill you. Reference the dual fatality at the LOE fly in last year or the year before.

Someone made the point something like this: "How would this look to my friends reading an NTSB report?"

The vast majority of accidents/fatalities are due to pilot error and can be prevented. Read the Nall Report and don't do the things that can get you killed. Study the APOA safety briefings mentioned earlier.

Frankly I am tired of reading about RV fatality reports. Let's hear less of those and more "Joe stubbed his toe on the step climbing in while wearing sandals."
 
Brian...

Thanks for your input, but I think you missed my point. I wasn't advocating my rules nor was I seeking validation for them. What I did want to know was what others did to make themselves safer. That said, you raised some valid points which I will try to address. First off, I have never been rejected by ATC for FF. I realize it's a possibility and I would most likely continue my flight anyway. I like the extra set of eyes for traffic. It's busy here under the B at KMSP. Most of my flying is local anyway. So I always try and get FF even if I'm just putzing around. Secondly, I have a very modestly equipped airplane without an autopilot. Should I ever install one and there is a problem with it I would not fly until I determined what the problem was and took steps to address it. As we have seen in other incidents (the "NASCAR" crash for example). A problem with an aircraft system might be indicative of a more serious problem not yet known. My definition of sucd running is easy. Something that is not legal VFR (no SVFR). My airport is a mile from the Mississippi and we get lots of fog. I wait until I'm legal. As far as "point of reference" goes I agree, although I come in on the more conservative end of things. I'm OK with that. One rule I would like to add would be "I NEVER HAVE to fly anywhere in my plane". I do this almost purely for fun, almost never to travel. I like to fly 2-4 times a week for the sheer joy of it. Nothing else, so I can scrub a flight easier than some. I understand that my personal rules are not your rules and I'm OK with that. I'm sure you fly safely with regard to yourself and pax. I guess I just need a bit more "comfort" with what I do. Thanks for the post!
 
Darwin...

Good points. I train quite a bit. I am fortunate that I have a great CFI and some very skilled friends that I learn from all the time. I fly with this CFI every month doing things that I don't like to do, but that increase my skills. I tell him to "break" things on the airplane. I do usual attitudes, engine outs etc... After dinner I do my nightly walk and go over normal and abnormal procedures in my head, visualizing what to do when. I read constantly (here at VAF and books), I watch videos and then I talk to my CFI and we go out and fly. I can honestly say I try very hard to be well trained, 100% current and vigilant on every flight. Thanks for your post, oh and bring popcorn to OSH, there might be a t-shirt in it for you!!
 
exactly...

Ironflight said:
Bryan and Darwin - you both are absolutely correct in that there will always be exceptions to rule, but in my opinion, the point here is not Paul's actual rules - those will vary from person to person and for a particular person as they gain experience. The point I take away from this thread is that everyone needs to establish their own personal rules - period. And....it is important for each of us to understand the rules we set, and when they are applicable, and when not.
Paul
Click to expand...

That's what I wanted to say... maybe not a eloquently as you, but that was my intention. I want to know what others do. I don't expect anybody to do as I do, but I am interested in things I might have missed. Thanks!
 
bkc3921 said:
Paul...You listed 11..let me add one more:
#12:
Regardless of the peer pressure, I vow NEVER to allow anyone to talk me out of the first 11.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul"....
Invictus, William Ernst Henley
Click to expand...

Brian,

I would not let that happen. I do appreciate all the input though. Your nice shiny panel should be showing up shortly. Thanks!!
 
hoping to lure Doug in

Doug,

Thanks for your input. I agree 100%, even flying as safely as we can it is still dangerous. I don't think for a minute with my conservative "rules" that I can't have something happen. I just try and mitigate the risk to an acceptable level for me and train for the "what ifs".
 
one more thing...

I mentioned this is my reply to Brain. I NEVER have to fly. Darwin does and I feel safer knowing there are well trained skillful guys out there that will come scrape me off the road and save my life, but I fly for the joy of it. I understand that this affords me a lot me latitude in my go, o go decision.
 
Paul the Overlord said:
Thanks for your input, but I think you missed my point. I wasn't advocating my rules nor was I seeking validation for them. What I did want to know was what others did to make themselves safer. That said, you raised some valid points which I will try to address. First off, I have never been rejected by ATC for FF. I realize it's a possibility and I would most likely continue my flight anyway. I like the extra set of eyes for traffic. .....although I come in on the more conservative end of things. I'm OK with that. .......
Click to expand...

Hi Paul- Brian and some of the others said what i wished i had with my first post- rules sometimes get broken, it is more important to have a proper attitude and a risk evaluation method. what i was thinking of with your first post was a bit of a rigid approach to safety, not that bad of an idea, but I think there are better approaches. Then you filled in more detail with your monthly training, which I think is an excellent idea. After reading the further posts that lay out your thoughts, i think you do what i advocate, maybe not as a primary method of flight planning but as a underlying basis for your decisions

I think having a risk evaluation model is more important and flexible than a list, although you certainly could use any/ all lists you think necessary to fly safely. Learning from others (CFI training, accident reports, etc.) can show common mistakes that have never happened by personal experience, and you can incorporate something into your lists to prevent such result.

I'm not saying your approach is wrong, just that i think you could improve an already conservative and commendable flying habit. Maybe you already do, you just don't present it in your posts. The thing that sticks in my mind is your lists are good, but if you fly enough you will get into a situation where you can't avoid breaking one of your rules. At that point i think it would be better to have a framework for evaluating the risk to breaking a rule and if that is acceptable.

my three cents from a low time pilot who doesn't get much work done on his project, so it's probably on the low end of the consideration compared to the guys with 1000s of hours and planes they have completed and flown. But I can take the time to type this out and maybe i'll learn from the other people on this thread more than they learn from me (unless they learn that I'm good at surfing the innernets and not as good at completions)

edit- so what i do for increasing my safety is evaluating my flights, like AAR or debriefings- have they shown i am lacking in a skill, knowledge, or attitude? Is there an area i need more training, what can i do to increase my knowledge of anything aviation related- weather, communications, construction, etc. It isn't real professional, but i think it helps more than thinking, "that was a bad flight" or "i didn't like that"
 
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Many of what Paul said. I just have a couple to offer beyond his.

  • Always fly the clock and never a fuel gauge or fuel flow indicator regardless of how accurate it is. The first one who wins the race to indicate '1hr of fuel remaining' wins. We need to be on the ground.
  • As soon as things on the ground start to go awry, perform an on-the-ground-go-around. Start back at the very beginning of your planning/pre-flight and get it perfect the next time.
  • Always practice IFR flying by hand and fly them for real with the autopilot.

Also, one of my best practices is to keep a 2nd logbook. It does nothing but keep a register of the stupid things I've done. I NEVER carry it with me in the airplane because it could be a historical record of past events that could be used against me. It's kept in a private location.

But when I screw up, I write a journal entry into it and describe exactly what I did, what I was thinking, how I should have recognized it, and what I can do to never do it again.

At the end of the entry, I sign my name. It hurts to sign your name to that page.

My wife is a PhD psychologist and this type of behavior is one of her focus areas. It's nice to have her as a co-pilot because she knows what she's looking for and when I'm starting to exhibit some of those traits. She suggested keeping this log and it really has paid off. I can honestly say that I haven't repeated any of the logbook entrys to date and I'm quicker to recognize those painful mistakes earlier in the process. I don't plan on replicating them either....

Phil
 
Danny7 said:
Hi Paul- Brian and some of the others said what i wished i had with my first post- rules sometimes get broken, it is more important to have a proper attitude and a risk evaluation method. what i was thinking of with your first post was a bit of a rigid approach to safety, not that bad of an idea, but I think there are better approaches. Then you filled in more detail with your monthly training, which I think is an excellent idea. After reading the further posts that lay out your thoughts, i think you do what i advocate, maybe not as a primary method of flight planning but as a underlying basis for your decisions

I think having a risk evaluation model is more important and flexible than a list, although you certainly could use any/ all lists you think necessary to fly safely. Learning from others (CFI training, accident reports, etc.) can show common mistakes that have never happened by personal experience, and you can incorporate something into your lists to prevent such result.

I'm not saying your approach is wrong, just that i think you could improve an already conservative and commendable flying habit. Maybe you already do, you just don't present it in your posts. The thing that sticks in my mind is your lists are good, but if you fly enough you will get into a situation where you can't avoid breaking one of your rules. At that point i think it would be better to have a framework for evaluating the risk to breaking a rule and if that is acceptable.

my three cents from a low time pilot who doesn't get much work done on his project, so it's probably on the low end of the consideration compared to the guys with 1000s of hours and planes they have completed and flown. But I can take the time to type this out and maybe i'll learn from the other people on this thread more than they learn from me (unless they learn that I'm good at surfing the innernets and not as good at completions)

edit- so what i do for increasing my safety is evaluating my flights, like AAR or debriefings- have they shown i am lacking in a skill, knowledge, or attitude? Is there an area i need more training, what can i do to increase my knowledge of anything aviation related- weather, communications, construction, etc. It isn't real professional, but i think it helps more than thinking, "that was a bad flight" or "i didn't like that"
Click to expand...

Denny,

Thanks for your input. I agree I might seem rigid or unbending in what I always try to do. As I said, I never have to fly, so I have the luxury of scrubbing a flight if it's out of my comfort zone. I guess my risk evaluation in a rule breaking situation would be the little voice inside my head. I try and do a lot of "what if" thinking. There is no way to imagine all the possibilities, but I try to cover the "likely of the unlikely". If it doesn't feel right, I will try and not do it. As I mentioned, these are *my* guidelines, and I don't advocate them for use by anyone else. I'm reasonably certain nobody will lose any sleep if I decide not to fly for whatever reason. My main purpose was to try and see what other people do. If I hear something I think is a good idea I add it to my thought process. The recent crashes got me thinking more about this.
 
great ideas

Phil said:
Many of what Paul said. I just have a couple to offer beyond his.

  • Always fly the clock and never a fuel gauge or fuel flow indicator regardless of how accurate it is. The first one who wins the race to indicate '1hr of fuel remaining' wins. We need to be on the ground.
  • As soon as things on the ground start to go awry, perform an on-the-ground-go-around. Start back at the very beginning of your planning/pre-flight and get it perfect the next time.
  • Always practice IFR flying by hand and fly them for real with the autopilot.

Also, one of my best practices is to keep a 2nd logbook. It does nothing but keep a register of the stupid things I've done. I NEVER carry it with me in the airplane because it could be a historical record of past events that could be used against me. It's kept in a private location.

But when I screw up, I write a journal entry into it and describe exactly what I did, what I was thinking, how I should have recognized it, and what I can do to never do it again.

At the end of the entry, I sign my name. It hurts to sign your name to that page.

My wife is a PhD psychologist and this type of behavior is one of her focus areas. It's nice to have her as a co-pilot because she knows what she's looking for and when I'm starting to exhibit some of those traits. She suggested keeping this log and it really has paid off. I can honestly say that I haven't repeated any of the logbook entrys to date and I'm quicker to recognize those painful mistakes earlier in the process. I don't plan on replicating them either....

Phil
Click to expand...

I use the Richard Collins "point system". I try and fly as perfectly as I can. If I do something wrong I deduct points based on the severity of my violation. I honestly strive for perfection as I believe many of us do. My wife told me a nice little saying... I think I'll put it in my sig file...

"Be good, get good or quit".
 
Paul
I started flying rockets 11 years ago. It allowed me to travel more then I had ever thought possible and although I had accumulated over 600 hours weather, was a big concern to me. GPS was still new and my rocket boasted the brand new Appollo 360! As a VFR pilot I did not feel the need for gyros but I had cut the panel for the additional equipment and had placed blanks where the instruments would have been. On one of those blanks I had posted the following and signed it

Personal Pilot Pledge
I will
not fly into marginal weather
not fly with less then one hour of fuel
not be tempted by impulse acts
not fly with known snags
not rely on GPS only

Your discussion reminded me of this pledge so I looked it up and thought about it in light of the extra years and 1100 rocket hours. Over that time my skills have improved and my view of marginal weather has changed. Although I am still a VFR pilot I am working towards IFR status. I have a healthy respect for weather and I know my limits better then I did at that time. Equipment changes have allowed me to be more comfortable with what my actual remaining fuel really is but I would still go with the hour reserve. I am less prone to impulse acts now then I was and thus that item might not make it on a current list. Flying with snags depends on the particular item, for example fuel issues would never be ignored but I would not hesitate to fly with my autopilot or audio panel not working. My situational awareness with an additional GPS and VOR has never been better but while travelling I still take my sectionals and know where I am. Over the years I have been caught on two occasions with a failed GPS and it gets your attention.
What would I add to the list? Checklists This is an area of personal weakness, and as I get older those two items are becoming even more important. I have the printed checklist, I have the digital checklist, I lack the resolve, and I am working on that.
 
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