BatteryMinder Not For Use On Aircraft Batteries.

I was stunned to learn that Battery Minders are no longer recommended for use on Odyssey, Concord, or any other AGM or "Gel Cell" battery as they shorten the life and performance of the battery.

Several times I have recommended these maintenance chargers (on VAF) for our AGM batteries because I specifically called the company and talked to the engineers about these chargers and aircraft AGM batteries. Now they are back tracking and finally figured out their chargers are NOT COMPATIBLE with AGM batteries. Of course they have new chargers to sell, but I would certainly not buy another one from Battery Minder.


http://www.batteryminders.com/specials.php

My sincere apologies if anyone took my advice and purchased these chargers for their aircraft.

Geico266 said:

I was stunned to learn that Battery Minders are no longer recommended for use on Odyssey, Concord, or any other AGM or "Gel Cell" battery as they shorten the life and performance of the battery.

Several times I have recommended these maintenance chargers (on VAF) for our AGM batteries because I specifically called the company and talked to the engineers about these chargers and aircraft AGM batteries. Now they are back tracking and finally figured out their chargers are NOT COMPATIBLE with AGM batteries. Of course they have new chargers to sell, but I would certainly not buy another one from Battery Minder.


http://www.batteryminders.com/specials.php

My sincere apologies if anyone took my advice and purchased these chargers for their aircraft.

Click to expand...

Hmmmmmm....if a charger works well with an Odyssey battery in a Honda or BMW motorcyle, why wouldn't it be fine for the same battery (PC680) in an airplane? The PC680 is not an "aviation" battery. Maybe this is attorney-driven marketing-speak?

I've never used the Battery-Minder but have used the little (~$40) Battery Tender Jr. units to keep a PC-680 topped up when there were some serious keep-alive items in the plane. I've found that if the plane is flown every few weeks the PC680 maintains its charge very nicely without any help. The Battery Tender Jr. is now tasked with maintaining the old Panasonic battery that powers my APRS iGate receiver.

go batterytender

Batterytender still likes Odyssey AGM. I've had good luck with batterytender throughout the project. I upgraded to powertender recently.

http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_4

I have used a Battery Tender brand on my Odessey battery for a several years in the winter with no problems that I can detect. A Battery Tender stops charging when the battery gets to 13.2 volts to avoid gassing. Does the Battery Minder go to a higher voltage before it stops charging?
We sell Battery Tenders in my motorcycle shop and I use several of them on everything with a lead acid battery and have never had a problem, the batteries are always ready to go and survive the winter. Few small motorcycle batteries will survive a winter with out a Tender.

I think it is very transparent and respectable of them to:

(1) Be upfront about the issue. (Identify the problem)

(2) Do something about it and address the specific need. (Offer a solution)

(3) Try to mitigate the impact. (Special trade in offer)


Would you prefer them to just keep shut about it and let everyone shorten the lives of their batteries once the issue is known?

Another manufacturer has a new charger on the market, claims to be safe for AGM batteries (Odyssey)

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motorcycle-battery-charger/optimate-4/

http://www.tecmate.com/optimate4_detail.php

http://highergear.myswiftstore.com/Catalog/10192/OPTIMATE-4-Battery-Charger--Optimiser

Maybe later they will say this one is unsuitable as well I don't know but it's the one I currently own. If anyone knows this charger is unsuitable for the PC680 please chime in.

Geico266 said:

I was stunned to learn that Battery Minders are no longer recommended for use on Odyssey, Concord, or any other AGM or "Gel Cell" battery as they shorten the life and performance of the battery.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, the BatteryMinder 12248-AA-S1 , 12248-AA-S2 (plug and play), and 12248-AA-S3 (specific for Odyssey FAA-PMA and 600 series) are OK. These have the "Aircraft Calibrated" note on the front of the unit. When I bought mine last year I saw they had this aviation specific ones so bought it as I have Concorde in the Cessna.

I would not hesitate using the Model 12248 (non-aviation BatteryMinder) on an Odyssey 680 as that is not an aviation battery.

Smart electrons

I am wondering what the real issue is? Is it the charge rate? or the cut-off voltage? or something else? It seems to me the electrons don't know if they are charging an aviation battery or a motorcycle battery? Could someone more knowledgeable educate me. Thanks

Data point, Solargizer killed my Odyssey

For years I have used a battery minder on my Long-EZ, which is parked far too much. As long as I had a Concorde battery, all was hunky dory.

I switched to an Odyssey PC680 (gives better CG). Left the plane parked for a few weeks with the battery minder on. Came to fly and the battery INDICATED 13.2 volts, but had almost no cranking amps. The battery was toast (and it was only a few months old).

Moral, I don't use that battery minder on Odyssey anymore. I have a different charger for "topping" up my Odyssey.

To be fair, Odyssey does promote a special charger/maintainer for their batteries.

YMMV

left master on with charger connected

Please move to new thread if appropriate.

While talking chargers, I purchased the 100 something dollar 12 amp Odyssey charger to make sure I was charging the PC680 appropriately. I left the master on overnight accidently and when I returned the charger was toasted. I took it apart and there were obvious scorch marks around what looked like a dead resistor and there was a chip that had exploded/split itself apart. Very dead charger.

It was drawing around 7.5 amps continuously and I assume that this was simply too much for the charger, as it clearly wasn't designed as a power supply.

Someone said they never leave a charger on unattended. but that seems to be counter to the usefulness of giving it an overnight charge...

Jeremy

Conflicting info

Using the link provided, I found that "BatteryMINDer" is still recommending using the #12117 and #12118 on AGM batteries, and that they specifically mention Odyssey batteries.

This makes me wonder if they have not yet changed the info in the above ads, or does Odyssey make a battery specifically for aircraft that is chemically or electrically different from the batteries we use??

If there is a difference in the actual aircraft battery, anybody know what is different???

Odyssey doesnt make any specific distinction on their website, in fact they even compare the certified SBS J-16 to the non certified PC680.

Battery Tender Jr is fine for the pc-680

Where's the cheapest BT jr selling these days and where's the cheapest Odyssey battery these days?

I have left my BT jr on for weeks at a time in the hangar when work and life was too much to fit flying in, no problemo after 3 or 4 years use out of the same battery doing this repeatedly. I even made a fuel stop hundreds of miles from home base where I went in to town for lunch and left the Master On. When I got back there wasn't enough juice to turn over the starter (200 hp angle valved IO-360). I happened to have my Battery Tender Jr with me. FBO ran me a 110v extension chord out to my parking spot, I plugged it in (I made an exterior port for it under the belly with my aft mounted battery) and when I came back in 50 minutes I hopped in the plane and the sucker turned over the engine like a brand new fully charged battery. Whew! I couldn't find anyone who wanted to assist in hand propping so I didn't have too many options with a battery in the back.

But I got out of the habit of automatically plugging in the BT jr after every flight about a year ago and even on the coldest of flying days this winter I can still get the plane started w/o any problem though there's usually a hesitation when the first hard compression stroke hits but once the starter finally overcomes that first fight back it spins right up fine. If I were to leave the BT jr plugged in inbetween flights there probably wouldn't be that slight pause right after the starter is engaged because it didn't used to do that. I did replace the pc-680 about a year and a half ago. It worked really well all through the building and initial years of flying. They are great batterys. I'm sure the BT jr had something to do with it as I always kept it on the battery from day one with that first battery.

What Odyssey says about it,....

(A) Selecting the right charger for your battery

Qualifying portable automotive and powersport chargers
for your ODYSSEY battery is a simple two-step process.

Step 1 Charger output voltage
Determining the charger output voltage is the most
important step in the charger qualification process.
If the voltage output from the charger is less than 14.2V
or more than 15V for a 12V battery, then do not use the
charger. For 24V battery systems, the charger output
voltage should be between 28.4V and 30V. If the charger
output voltage falls within these voltage limits when the
battery approaches a fully charged state, proceed to
Step 2, otherwise pick another charger.

Step 2 Charger type - automatic or manual
The two broad types of small, portable chargers
available today are classified as either automatic or
manual. Automatic chargers can be further classified as
those that charge the battery up to a certain voltage and
then shut off and those that charge the battery up to a
certain voltage and then switch to a lower float (trickle)
voltage.

They say a lot more but you need to see the charts so just go to this link and go to page 13 where the topic is (Selecting the right battery charger) How convenient is that ?

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf

Bill S
7a finishing

What Battery Tender has to say

Here is one of the FAQ's on the Battery Tender site that speaks directly to the charging characteristics of AGM batteries. (Odyssey batteries are of course AGM technology). As other's have mentioned, I don't believe that the battery can tell whether it's in an airplane or a motorcycle. Battery technology is the issue, not the vehicle.
I use the Battery Tender Plus with complete success on Odyssey batteries, regardless of which of my vehicles they are in.

Try a 2 amp Black & Decker charger

These will work with AGM batteries. (Click on the picture for details.)



I picked mine up at a Box Store for around 20 bucks.

jjconstant said:

Please move to new thread if appropriate.

While talking chargers, I purchased the 100 something dollar 12 amp Odyssey charger to make sure I was charging the PC680 appropriately. I left the master on overnight accidently and when I returned the charger was toasted. I took it apart and there were obvious scorch marks around what looked like a dead resistor and there was a chip that had exploded/split itself apart. Very dead charger.

It was drawing around 7.5 amps continuously and I assume that this was simply too much for the charger, as it clearly wasn't designed as a power supply.

Someone said they never leave a charger on unattended. but that seems to be counter to the usefulness of giving it an overnight charge...

Jeremy

Click to expand...

I did the same thing, was doing some EIS programming and left the master on with the charger hooked up. The next morning the battery was dead and the charger was in stand-by, not charging and showing about 7 volts.

Maybe my charger kicked off whereas your charger toasted itself.

I do leave the charger on over night frequently but not for days at a time. It always shows the battery charged the next morning but is still cycling up to 14+ volts and back down.

I do know a battery charger not designed for AGM (absorbed glass mat) will cause the AGM battery to croak early. The difference in chargers has to do with voltage output. The AGM charger puts out over 14 volts, regular chargers less which is what the Odyssey does not like.

I am on my second set of AGM's. The first lasted 4+ years and I changed them out simply because it seemed time to do it. That was like 2 years ago and those batteries are still holding a good charge. Odyssey says they will last 7 years and that probably is a good statement.

One idea to avoid the issue of frying a battery by leaving it on charge with the wrong charger for too long is to put it on a timer. There are 7 day timers that can be set so your airplane receives a short charge (say 1 hour) once a day forever. That should be sufficient to keep any battery charged and would reduce or eliminate over-charging problems.

Those same 7 day timers are also excellent for use with engine pre-heaters if you have some idea of when you're planning on using your airplane during colder weather.

Kyle Boatright said:

....... (say 1 hour) once a day forever......

Those same 7 day timers are also excellent for use with engine pre-heaters if you have some idea of when you're planning on using your airplane during colder weather.

Click to expand...

Some will contend that heating the engine with a pre-heater on/off, on/off, on/off, will create condensation inside the engine on each cooling cycle.

The advice I have heard is plug it in and leave it on until you go fly, or let the engine sit cold, plug it in then go fly. In both cases there is no cooling (condensation) before going to fly. I'm sure the condensation build up would be different base on location (PHX vs ATL) and storage (climate controlled hanger vs sitting out in the rain).

Odessey batteries are reputed to hold 90% of their charge for over a year.

Why would you risk it by continually charging it?

Who out there is using their airplane less than once per year without charging the battery?

Battery minders are simply a hazard, providing zero benefit. Shouldn't cause a fire, but even today's best manufacturing techniques have one or two catastrophic failures per million units. Caveat emptor.

Hey guys... check this out!

http://www.batteryminders.com/specials.php

Seems like a pretty good deal for anyone looking to trade in/up!

osxuser said:

Hey guys... check this out!

http://www.batteryminders.com/specials.php

Seems like a pretty good deal for anyone looking to trade in/up!

Click to expand...

This is the same link I posted at the beginning of the thread. I already bought a Batteryminder charger after they told me a year ago they were safe to use on AGM batteries. In fact the charger I bought has a button (or mode) on it for AGM batteries, but now they tell me this charger is defective and will damage AGM chargers and they want me to pay another $140 to trade up? They are crazy! The deal should be to RECALL the defective chargers and issue a FREE replacement. It should be a direct replacement as their battery charger will DAMAGE AGM batteries.

Batteryminder sold a defective product and they want me to buy another one of their chargers? I don't think so.

breister said:

Odessey batteries are reputed to hold 90% of their charge for over a year.

Why would you risk it by continually charging it?

Who out there is using their airplane less than once per year without charging the battery?

Battery minders are simply a hazard, providing zero benefit. Shouldn't cause a fire, but even today's best manufacturing techniques have one or two catastrophic failures per million units. Caveat emptor.

Click to expand...

While the battery will hold it's charge for long periods if not connected to anything, it sure won't if you have a glass panel or radio stack that has a "keep" function or "memory" function. Without a maintainer the battery will be dead in a few weeks....... As Justain Wilson used to say, I guar-on-tee!

Let's differentiate between "charge" and "maintain" here, for charging you need 14.3 to 15 V. If your automobile charger can supply this voltage use it.

For maintaining you need 13.6 V or less so as to just offset the power drawn by the various parasites. Just about any trickle charger can do that. You just can't charge a battery with a trickle charger .. that can ruin it. After you land, unless your alternator has failed, your battery should be fully charged.

So, two choices in my mind, a charger and a maintainer, or a combination charger/maintainer. JMHO.


Larry

Let's consider what is happening when you fly - a very average car alternator is pumping amps into your battery through an internal limiter or via a regulator. If you flew regularly, the battery would be fully charged all the time and the alternator would effectively become a trickle charger.

We bought all our stuff 4 years ago, the PC680 has been on and off the airframe, it has spun the engine when we re inhibited it, it has powered the avionics during fitting.

All I do is leave it on a $20 car battery charger every couple of months and it seems fine and is still healthy.

Sometimes simple is good - if your aeroplane rests for long periods - just leave on charge overnight once every 6 weeks and it should be fine.

Previous project was a Christen Eagle. We bought it, changed the oil and inhibited the engine. 18 months later we came to run the engine - the original Yuasa 17 amp motorcycle battery hadn't had any attention. We got 1 1/2 minutes of cranking out of it pre oiling the engine in short bursts - amazing !