VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 03-12-2009, 02:33 PM
Randy Randy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sedona Arizona
Posts: 345
Default Is high speed pass legal?

I should know the answer to this, or look it up, but thought it might it might generate some interesting discussion.

I would like to make a high speed low pass down the runway and have a friend film it for me. We happen to have a few FAA folks living at the airpark here and they have a tendancy to make calls and turn there neighbors in if they hear of or see a violation. Nice neighbors eh?

Maybe one of you with better knowledge of the FARs than I can enlighten me as to whether such a manuver is legal or not and perhaps what the rules actually state regarding this?

Randy C
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-12-2009, 02:41 PM
RV7Guy's Avatar
RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,760
Default Legal

The only FAR you could bust is the FAA speed limit below 10K. Not likely.

You don't say where you live, but I live in a very urban airpark. Although the pass could be legal please consider the "fly neighborly," concept. That is what we have to do. The only ones that can get away with it are the warbirds that reside here. No problems for them, but if several RV's started doing the same thing, the calls would come in.

Love the speed!!!!
__________________
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N707EE-Building
EMS Bell 407,
Eurocopter 350 A-Star Driver
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-12-2009, 02:55 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 1,614
Default 500 ft from any structure, 1000 ft over congested areas

These are things that, depending on the amount of clear space around the airport, might be a problem. When it suits them, the FAA will call a large rural area with nothing but pasture land a congested area. (example the story in AOPA Pilot last year of the Steaman pilot that hit a wire while flying low up the center of a river - they said the river, in the middle of miles of agriculture, was a congested area)

One approach would be to actually go discuss it with your FAA neighbors first, tell them what you are up to and why, what safety issues you've considered, go-no-go criteria, that you are adequately experienced and trained, etc. This shows that it is a considered event, not a reckless impulse. Then when they see you, they will note that you performed as you said you would.
__________________
Steve Smith
Aeronautical Engineer
RV-8 N825RV
IO-360 A1A
WW 200RV
"The Magic Carpet"
Hobbs 420 in 7 years
also LS-6-15/18 sailplane
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:02 PM
jsharkey jsharkey is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bennington, Vermont USA
Posts: 1,261
Default

They could possibly get you under FAR 91.13 - Careless Operation and FAR 91.119 - Safe Altitude

If the pass was considered careless or reckless 91.13 would apply and if there was no intention to land then 91.119 would kick in if the pass was below 500'

Just my consevative opinion.

Jim Sharkey
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:09 PM
tcone1's Avatar
tcone1 tcone1 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 301
Default All due caution

I've got a neighbor here at KE79 that has decided that I must be doing something wrong when I make a recon pass prior to landing. He's called the FSDO, the FSDO called me and we talked things over. The only reason they couldn't violate me was because I only ever do one pass and it really is to check the field over. On two occasions I've had to swerve to avoid dogs roaming on the runway.

If you have someone out there with the purpose of filming, you are probably up for a bust. A recon pass is legal, a film pass is not. Anytime you are within 500 feet, verticle or horizontal, of a person, building, or property, it better be for the purpose of takeoff or landing. A recon pass is considered for the purpose of landing...filming is not.

Now get this, the neighbor is still not happy, so he's started filming my pass to gather evidence so he can coerce the FSDO into starting an enforcement action. Yes he is number one with me.
__________________
Timothy Cone
Sierra Skypark (KE79) Fresno CA
RV-8, XP360, RV200
Flown Sept. 12, 2007
880 hours on the hobbs and loving it
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:16 PM
Roger Moore Roger Moore is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 64
Default high speed pass

Just say you were in the intrest of safety checking out runway conditions, and if they don't buy that then ----------

Last edited by Mike S : 03-12-2009 at 03:17 PM. Reason: be nice
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:20 PM
bkilby's Avatar
bkilby bkilby is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 278
Default

Go somewhere else where the FAA folks don't live.
__________________
Brian Kilby
flying RV-6A, previously flying RV-9A
based at KCTJ, Carrollton, GA
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:23 PM
allbee allbee is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: spokane, wa
Posts: 800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcone1 View Post
I've got a neighbor here at KE79 that has decided that I must be doing something wrong when I make a recon pass prior to landing. He's called the FSDO, the FSDO called me and we talked things over. The only reason they couldn't violate me was because I only ever do one pass and it really is to check the field over. On two occasions I've had to swerve to avoid dogs roaming on the runway.

If you have someone out there with the purpose of filming, you are probably up for a bust. A recon pass is legal, a film pass is not. Anytime you are within 500 feet, verticle or horizontal, of a person, building, or property, it better be for the purpose of takeoff or landing. A recon pass is considered for the purpose of landing...filming is not.

Now get this, the neighbor is still not happy, so he's started filming my pass to gather evidence so he can coerce the FSDO into starting an enforcement action. Yes he is number one with me.
Yup, I have pilots at my airfield that fit into this catagory, they even do the same thing, but with them it's ok. I fly a kitfox, go figure. I've been talked to by the FSDO on doing a low pass at 60 just off the runway with the tower giving clearance for such. So my opinion don't do it and for sure, don't get pictures of doing. I've been told many things from the FSDO one of which, is the aerobatic manuaver, 30degree pitch and 60degree bank thang and believe it, anything NOT normal for the airport which will open anything they want. Just go fly and be invisible as much as possible.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:23 PM
AZtailwind's Avatar
AZtailwind AZtailwind is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 407
Default Ha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Moore View Post
Just say you were in the intrest of safety checking out runway conditions, and if they don't buy that then ----------
I saw your response before the edit... still laughing!
__________________

Brad Ransom
http://www.westcoastravens.com
RV-6A 180HP-purchased
Be V35
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Randy Randy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sedona Arizona
Posts: 345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilby View Post
Go somewhere else where the FAA folks don't live.
I live at S36 in Kent, WA. Thanks for the responses. I think this one is probably the best advice for me in my particular situation.

One fellow here got calls from the FAA etc. simply because of a radio call he made when someone asked his altitude. It was considered too low and the radio call was the evidence against him. Now very few people around here use their N number when they make radio calls.

Randy C
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:53 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.