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AX-O's Fastback RV-4

AX-O

Well Known Member
EDIT: This documet contains additional information regarding RV-4 fastback. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxZA8yrZXBYdNTEwYTA3ZWUtZmY0ZC00OGRkLTg2ODItMmJiMTNmYWIyOWZh/view?sharingaction=advanced_link_settings&resourcekey=0-OOvIA5DXkbfSWTQKdWy_3Q

picture links:
Firewall

Rudder pedals

Foot wells

Upholstery

Instrument panel

Interior

Landing gear

Canopy

Empennage

Fuselage

Engine

Cowl

Prop

Wiring

Big move

Final setup


A lot of people have asked me to post pictures of my fastback RV-4. So I decided to start a section for my RV.

DR, if this is not appropriate and you would rather have this status under the "RV-4 Status" section, please move accordingly.

I have been working on the fastback portion, canopy frame and canopy all at the same time for the past 3 months. The fastback sheet is not fully trimmed yet. The canopy frame was a standard RV-4 frame that I cut in multiple places, re-welded, modified and banged into shape. The canopy came from Todd and it fits a Rocket. So far it has worked out very well.

Last week I started gluing my canopy to the canopy frame. I used pieces of air hose for the spacers.
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The canopy frame was modified to take maximum advantage of the bigger canopy and to improve the field of view. The side tubes were lowered approximately 4 inches. The front bow was cut off and welded to the frame about 6 inches lower. That improoves my forward/side field of view.
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The canopy was only cut on the back for shape. Nothing was cut off the sides. The front was cut in order to adjust the canopy height. Doing this allowed me to extend the forward portion of the canopy approximately 5 inches.
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The canopy latching system was changed to Forward = locked and aft = open.
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A 25 psi car hood shock was implemented to the canopy frame. It was purchased at a local auto shop. The shock is approximately 9 inches long when closed and 12 inches long opened.
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The canopy opens and closes very easy. I may put a strap on the frame as well. The winds get crazy around the Mojave Desert.
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This is what the canopy looks like. I will try to take pics tomorrow of the plane outside if it does not rain.
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Very cool Axel! Nice to see some creative building going on too. I think it will be a better looking airplane than the fastback 8, nicer lines and the 4's swept gear always did look faster <g>
 
The weather was nice enough to take the RV out. Here are a few pics of it. No work has been done on the coweling nor plenum yet.
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Very cool Axel! Nice to see some creative building going on too. I think it will be a better looking airplane than the fastback 8, nicer lines and the 4's swept gear always did look faster <g>

Dan, I hope it does not look much better. I am also building an RV-8 with the Show Planes fastback and coweling. It is on hold until the -4 is flying.
 
Very Nice

Ax,

Your canopy install is really coming along.... hope I've been of some help. I really like the way you lowered the sides (ala Pitts Model 12). Keep up the picture posts.

I have the Show Planes canopy and completed plane promo pictures hanging on my hangar wall...also my next project!!! That is if I can find another job, got laid off in December....bummer.

Anyway, keep up the good work.
 
I spend some time on Sat researching how to install the coweling. Today I installed the top half. This is looking more like an airplane every day :) I used paint sticks as spacers between the coweling and the spinner. I also used PVC pipes to simulate the Catto prop. Hope to start work on the cheeks and lower coweling soon.

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Imitation is the greatest flattery...

Axel,

Looks great and nice work on the James cowl! When Dave Anders taxied up at Sun N Fun in 97 with his then polished fastback -4, I parked next to him with my polished, 928 lb 150HP RV4. My first thought was, Harmon Rocket fastback on a -4? Wow, Great idea!

It still is...

Smokey
HR2

Blasphemy!!!!!
__________________
Joe Ferraro
DFW, RV-8A ShowPlanes FastBack Fuse


PS:Really?..John Harmon would say otherwise, the 8 was designed after Van saw the HR2 prototype, which was constructed from a -4 kit, not 8A:)
 
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Bill, Smokey thanks. Slowly moving along. I hope she flys soon. Feels like I am down to months vice years now.
 
I LOVE IT!

Hey Axel,

Looking GREAT! I love the look. I'm getting flashbaks watching your quick progress. Was telling Bill we need to do a FASTBACK -4 formation to OSH. Got my wheel pants done this last weekend so doing weight and balance this weekend, maybe DAR check next week. Our planes sure look fast anyway, hopefully all we expect!

I could not have got where I'm at without all the help from people on this web site!

Keep on pounding, grinding and riveting!
 
Axel,
Can you briefly describe what you've done differently with your canopy side height ?? Something looks different about it (and I like it) and I read one mention of how you have lowered the sides. I believe I've seen a couple of RV's that seemed to have the canopy sides raised - making the see-through part smaller - and I didn't like that so much. I'm interested in yours; like do you know how much lower your canopy goes from standard i.e. does a simple 1/4" make that big a difference or does it take a full inch to make that difference ? Did you use another reference to determine your line ?
 
Axel,
Can you briefly describe what you've done differently with your canopy side height ??

Did you use another reference to determine your line ?

Larry,
this is what I did.

-I purchased a rocket canopy from Todd.
-Tried to fit the canopy to the RV-4 canopy frame.
-Spent over 2 weeks trying to make it fit. I cut every piece of metal that ran side to side on the frame (I also cut every weld after it was all said and done:eek:).
-Got the width of the canopy frame to fit the airplane, then tried to make the canopy fit the upper side tubes of the canopy frame.
-Looked at it for about a week and decided to instead of cutting the bottom of the canopy to fit the frame, I would make the frame fit the canopy. I just wanted the best possible visibility out of the back seat for my wife. That is the main reason for the choice.

If you look at the pic below, you will see the canopy frame bulkhead (between the pilot and copilot). If you look at the upper corners, you can see the old location of the side tubes. Those side tubes used to be welded to the bulkhead. The bottom of the canopy is almost 4 inches lower at the lowest location (the rear).
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The front section:
If you look at the pics below you can see that I lowered the side tubes considerably in the front as well. The tube that used to hold the front of the canopy was cut and welded to the actual frame. The reason was so I could extend the canopy forward and down. The canopy is approximately 4 inches forward of the original location per plans. I really like the look and think visibility would be a little nicer. But then again the original visibility was not bad. Hope that help, and not confused you more. Send me a PM with you phone number if you want to talk.

The next step is to make the skirts out of glass. That will be a challenge. I have not figured out how to make it flow nicely yet. I need to rivet the fastback prior to the glass work. Still waiting for a bucking partner.

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That's going to be one good lookin' bird when you're done. It's nice to see you l taking the time to build these the hard way and doing a darn nice job while you're at it. Thanks for the pics and the updates.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Axel,
Thanks a ton for the detailed description. I can see the 4 inches paid off - and now I have a frame of reference with which to work.http://www.vansairforce.com/community/images/icons/icon14.gif

I am planning a very different canopy approach on my Rocket. I have the canopy and sloped windscreen. I'll be making the canopy frame from scratch in composite. The front windscreen bow will be machined from billet titanium. The roll bar is fabricated from scratch in 4130 tubing close to stock RV-4 configuration. The mechanism will have the canopy slide aft about 2 inches with the aft end moving up at the same time; then flop over. Sort of best of both worlds; a flop over with front windscreen. I'm going to shamelessly steal your approach of lowering the sides http://www.vansairforce.com/community/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
AX -
Very cool... I love my RV-8 Fastback, but the RV-4 has always been a better looking plane and with a fastback - how can you get better than that. It looks like your canopy is lowered to the point where you head is close -love it. I don't like wasted space that will create unnecessary drag. Yours is an airplane that truly looks like it's moving sitting on the ramp. And the bang for the buck, even with the increased time/cost of inovation, is worth it. Way to go...

Scott
 
That's going to be one good lookin' bird when you're done. It's nice to see you l taking the time to build these the hard way and doing a darn nice job while you're at it.
Stein
Thanks Stein

That really looks nice. I wish I was that far along on my RV 8. I just keep bucking around.
Keep bucking you will get there. My RV-8 is on hold at the moment. you will be further along than me and many others before you know it.

Axel,
Thanks a ton for the detailed description. I'll be making the canopy frame from scratch in composite. I'm going to shamelessly steal your approach of lowering the sides
Your welcome. If I had to to it again, I would do it out of glass. A friend of mine told me to do it that way but I was not as comfortable with glass as I am with metal. The ideas that we all post are to help each other out. hope you like the look of the lower canopy as much as I do.

AX -
It looks like your canopy is lowered to the point where you head is close Scott

Scott, I sat inside many times and made sure I had just enough space. I wanted the canopy as low as possible in order to reduce flat plate area.
 
Got a few request for pics of the canopy shock and bracket installation. I am not done as you can see (hardware, paint, etc) but it will give you guys an idea. Still thinking about drilling holes and making it lighter. The shock was purchased from Napa. The part number is Turbolift 819-5584 (25 PSI, approx 9 to 12 inches long). The bracket is made out of 2 alum angles. One sits on top of the canopy rail flange and the other one sits on the rollbar flange. They maybe more than needed but I live in an area were winds can rip the canopy off. I will also have a small lanyard as a secondary aid.
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The past week has been packed with RV building activity. My dad flew from TX to CA and gave me a hand. The week started very slow due to all the prep work but by the end of the week we saw major progress. We riveted the fastback bulkheads, the fastback skin, painted the baggage area, ran the static lines, and mounted the horizontal and vertical stab. I will try to take better pics soon. These were taken at 1230 am on the last night dad was here.

My dad
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Lookin' good!

Thanks Mike.
Got around to taking some pictures of the plane outside. As you can see, I am still trying to figure out the coweling. Will James told me that I would probably have to cut the intake scoop off and bond the 360 scoop even though I have an O320 engine. He also told me to cut the cheeks on the coweling even with the firewall. That should make the space for the side cheeks wider.

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Will James told me that I would probably have to cut the intake scoop off and bond the 360 scoop even though I have an O320 engine. He also told me to cut the cheeks on the coweling even with the firewall. That should make the space for the side cheeks wider.

Axel,
Will might have been referring to the trouble some have had with the FAB fitting into the 320 cowling. Randy Lervold had this problem with his stock Van's cowl. Possibly the James cowl has similar issues?

You can read about Randy's fix on his RV-3 website.
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Airframe/airframe.html#Finish
Scroll down the page until you get to the "Cowl" section.

Regards,
 
It has been over 2 weeks of cutting and sanding glass. The cowling is almost ready for hinges. I have ran into many unexpected issues. The cowl just did not fit right. You can see some of the problems here http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=42390

After I rivet the hinges, I will figure out what to do about the intake/filter. I only have about 3 1/16 inches of clearance between the cowl and the carb. No enough room for the VAN's FAB. BTW, did you guys put proseal between the hinge and the glass prior to riveting the hinges?


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I'd cut off the bottom and make a FAB fit, probably with a Van's snout. Actually my first choice would be to covert the engine to fwd facing FI, but I'm doubting thats an option....
 
I'd cut off the bottom and make a FAB fit, probably with a Van's snout. Actually my first choice would be to covert the engine to fwd facing FI, but I'm doubting thats an option....

What would be involved to do the conversion? Sounds like lots of $$$$$
 
Currently a Carbed engine? If so it'd need a fwd facing sump, then the injection system, and depending on which exhaust you choose.... yeah it gets up there in cost. Your's is a -320 right? Probably not worth the hassle. Given that you are getting good at glass work:

http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin...-436-285&browse=engines&product=cowl-airscoop

Get a FAB, and that scoop. Then I'd modify the FAB to have a truely round inlet like the James cowl has (mostly to flow with the rest of the cowl looks wise), I'd do that with 3" aluminum tubing, riveted to the top plate of the FAB, then glassed in. Then I'd modify the Van's scoop with the same 3" alu tubing for the inlet, so it's round. You then cut a door in the bottom of the scoop, and use a 3" silcone coupling to attach scoop to the FAB, with a little clearance to allow for engine vibes.

You have a Conical mount? I'm going from memory here. Anyway, napkin drawing would help alot here... too bad Photoshop took a dump on my computer.
 
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Bulkheads?

Hi Axel,

I was reading this thread and saw that you aquired this plane from an ad on barnstormers from fallon,nv.
Did it already have the fastback bulkheads in it?Or did you make the modifications?Did you fab the bulkheads yourself? Or drive over to L45 and get them from Mr.Harmon?How about the skin?
I'm new here on VAF and haven't been able to find everything on How-TO a fastback 4 yet.
MY RV-4 wings are almost done and getting ready to start the fuse.I'm really wanting to do the fastback on mine.:)

Do you have anything on the internet with the fastback construction( photos or blog?)

Thanks in advance, Dave
 
Dave,
I do not have much information regarding the fastback process on my web page (but plenty in my head). I was also unable to find information due to the small number of fastback RV-4s. I plan on writing something at some point but it won't be for a while. I bought the parts from Harmon but would not do it again. I had to cut every single bulkhead and make it wider. If you are going to do it, understand that it adds complexity and time to your build time. Some may not agree with that but it has been my experience. The picture below shows the state of the aircraft. Notice that the regular RV-4 bulkheads were installed. I drilled them out and implemented the fastback. Send me a PM with your number and I can call you later. Currently on travel at San Francisco.

FP15042009A0000X.jpg
 
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Long time without posting. I have been on travel for almost 2 months then went to OSH. The group of guys I was hanging around with polluted my mind. I was going with manual flaps on my 4 for simplicity but the guys convinced me to install the electric flap kit that I had in the shop. So I spent the weekend doing just that. Man was that a tight fit. I must have smacked my head on the roll bar 10 to 15 times. At one point I was so upset my wife heard me over the washer and drier. She came out to see what was wrong and after I told her, she asked ?do you want me to build this thing for you??. I told her I would take care of it.

Here are some pics. Sorry for the last one.
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After I rivet the hinges, I will figure out what to do about the intake/filter. I only have about 3 1/16 inches of clearance between the cowl and the carb. No enough room for the VAN's FAB.


On Jetj01's fastback 4, he handmade a fiberglass and aluminum flat-shaped air inlet scoop that bolts up to the carb and fits completely within the James cowl without cutting on the cowl any at all.

He's running without an air filter however. Just keeps ground ops and low-level flying to a minimum, and don't fly in any dust storms :D
 
I talked to JJ at OSH. Nice guy. He sent me some pics of his intake about 2 months ago. Kind of OBE now. I just ordered a fuel injection system and a cold sump with forward facing intake. Should not be a problem anymore. I guess that is what happens when you go to OSH for the first time and your buddies say you need this and that. It was an expensive first trip.
 
I tooked my engine off and put it on a stand last week. Yesterday I started converting the engine to fuel injection and cold sump. Those part should arrive soon. Anyone looking for an oil sump and/or carb?
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At what cost???

Hi Axel,

This is indeed a brave endeavor you are undertaking and I can honestly say you are the first guy I actually know, thanks to OSHKOSH, who is doing this conversion. Unless you'd rather not, and for that I would understand, could you give me a clue what the TOTAL cost of this conversion is going to be? I recently saw the cost of the electric FI fuel pump alone, not including the return flow plumbing, and am really curious what the cost of CONVERTING from carb to FI will be. If you don't mind sharing the details, please enlighten me!

Looking forward to seeing your finished product. After OSHKOSH I can confirm that the -4 Fastback is indeed very popular with us -4 lovers! Hope you have had luck in selling the -8!

Tailwinds,
 
Guess its too late for me to convince you to just get the darn thing flying and save the trick stuff for the -8 ?
 
Hi Axel,

If you don't mind sharing the details, please enlighten me!

Hope you have had luck in selling the -8!
JJ,
I deleted a couple of things from the FI kit but this is what I ordered. Kit 8000006, http://www.airflowperformance.com/html/kits_lycoming_01.html The return pluming is one line "T"ed to one fuel line from one tank.

Then I went with this cold sump system.
http://www.aeroinstock.com/products/Front-Induction-Cold-Air-Sump/6419/52203/product_detail/index.html
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Not a cheap thing to do but there are pros and cons to everything.

As far as the -8, still have it. I am not worried about selling it. If someone gives me what I want for it, then it is gone. If not, then I will be building a nice -8 fastback as well.


Guess its too late for me to convince you to just get the darn thing flying and save the trick stuff for the -8 ?

Mike,
If you build it, they will come :D My friend, the motivation that OSH gave me has me getting up at 0500 every day, working 2 hours, going to work and coming home for another 2-3 hours. Not to mention my 20 hr weekends. It will be at OSH next year.
 
Did some work on the FI yesterday. I spent 2 hours doing work, 2 hours figuring out why the parts don't work with my installation and the other 20 hours of the day figuring out how to mount the flow divider and routing the right side lines. I hope to do the left lines today. I am going to have to buy a 3/4 to 1 inch spacer in order to give the fuel controller linkages enough space to move. There are interferences with the new cold oil sump.

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Some more pics. The line is close to the rod but it has enough clearance. The pictures make it look alot closer.
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Here are some pics from today. I finished routing the flow divider lines. I also had to cut a significant size hole on my engine plenum. I know exactly why it takes much longer to build an airplane if you don't follow the original plans.

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It's looking good Axel, I really wish I had the money/time combo right to get working on mine again. On the plus side, Reno is almost done here and gone, that'll free up around 20 hours a week :).

If you still have parts lying around, it looks like the soonest I'll have money is the second week in January. FAA finally had a new contract pushed through for us.
 
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