Back seat controls in the -8. throttles and brakes

I would like to fly some in the back seat of the -8 (with a front seater of course) and have some min. backup controls. Is it a simple process to add a duplicate throttle and brakes/rudders for the backseater? Has anybody added a starter or min. equipment in the back? Any other other thoughts? I'm sure this has been on a prevous thread but its been a while since I've on on this forum.

thanks,

SW

VAN's sells kits for the back seat throttle and rudder pedals.
If you use the Infinity stick grip, you could incorporate the starter, fuel pump, flaps, trim, PTT and still have an extra switch position for something else.
I don't know how you would incorporate back seat brakes, though.
If you are using an EFIS, you could probably mount a remote screen on the back of the front seat and get the entire flight instrument array. Seems like I remember one of the EFIS companies saying that you could do that.

My research last year.....

....made me decide that it probably wasn't worth it. When I began my -8, I expected to put full dual controls in the back seat. As I began the project, I decided to scan through all of the history of the Yahoo RV-8 site, and read many (if not most) of the posts that I found there. There are quite a few references to rear rudder pedals being a little bit "flaky" (my own interpretation), and rear brakes very few and far between. I also read of problems with friction in the rear throttle.

I am sure that with proper care and individual emgineering, these difficulties could all be overcome. But I decided to leave just a stick for the rear cockpit, with the option of adding a rear Display Unit hooked into my GRT EFIS in the future. It is very easy to do this - just spend the money and run a few additional wires. This would give the rear seater access to all flight data that the pilot has (albeit not all at the same time).

I think that while I probably COULD have built a "PIC from the rear" cockpit, that for my money, it just wasn't worth it. The fact of the matter is that I spend most of my time in the air alone anyways, and my (then) wife didn't like flying at all....

In the end, however, it is YOUR opinion that matters in YOUR airplane, and you should build it to your dreams!

Paul

Throttles and brakes in back seat

All great inputs..I'm having the great RV debate....mainly with myself, about "missions" and comparing the -7 to -8. One of the mission beside, aero, xcountry...wife next to you vs. behind and out of the loop..(not always good) was using the RV as a "trainer". The -7 is obvious a great set up for "all of the above"..but Like Paul, I'd be dong 95% of the flying alone or with a buddy and 5% with the wife on the one or two a year xcountry trips. But on the other hand I spent countless hours in the backseat of a T-38 as in IP and thought the idea of a -8 as "trainer" as another possible selling point of the -8. I don't want the plane to get to cosmic or $$$$. I don't need b/u instruments or even need brakes, but wanted to get guys inputs and thoughts who have built -8's on what you need in the back seat to safely fly and land the -8. I am making the assumption of putting someone in the front seat with some flying experience...say as a min. a student pilot. I should add..I have a 18 y/o old with about 25 hours and someday will pursue his pilot cert....Can he work the radios? yes...or do you add a simple "push to talk" switch on the back seaters stick? Do you need a starter in the backseat..just in case? IMHO..probably not..but then again how much time and $$$ does it take to "wirer" a starter in the back? Back to the "trainer" mission thought...as in the T-38, I think the -8 would make an excellent trainer since the "student" is out front, with a feeling of being on his own...But as the "IP" I'd like to take the plane and land it safely but without adding alot of time and $$$ to the project. Speaking of landing from the back seat....anyone out there in the RV world having any operational experience?

FYI..I was just out at the Vanns on Friday (4 Nov) and flew the -7. Great little plane, same wing as the -8...but I as a former "day, VFR..single engine pilot"..I am leaning -8 and want to "pile on!" in this great debate about the RV's!

Keep the inputs coming plz!

rear seat flying

I don't have any personal experience with them, but the main problem that people have reported with the Van's rudder pedal setup in the back seat is that it is very difficult (impossible?) to get full rudder deflection. I'd hate to be the IP in the back, wanting to take it from the student because he/she doesn't feel as comfortable as Danny King in a 20 knot crosswind. Danny King's RV Talk #10

I purchased the rear seat pedals for my 8, but I have chosen not to install them.

Visibility from the rear is fine - better than the B?cker Jungmann I fly from time to time.

starter Switch...

I have often read comments and quesitons from folks very concerned about having a starter switch very handy for an inflight restart. There was a great debate about "stopping the prop" a while back on the Grumman Gang (I think), the question being "should you stop the prop for maximum glide?" The bottom line was that it didn't matter - it was almost impossible to get the prop stopped without slowing the airplane into an incipient stall anyways. Sure, many of us have constant speed props, but I don't think the pitch range is so great as to make a huge difference in this case. (I could always be wrong...)

This might be relavent if you are considering a starter switch just to ensure that you can do an inflight restart - in almost any case I can think of, the engine will still be windmilling anyway. This isn't a turbine engine - you generally don't need to crank it for a re-light.

Of course, if you are planning on starting the engine on the ground from the rear seat, I certainly understand - I am not sure I'd want to be talking a rookie in the front seat through the start procedure - I can hear awful noises from meshing starter gears already...

Paul

Actually, I intend on putting the starter switch on the throttle as a push button thumb switch. To heck with the inflight restart.... I'm putting it there so I can start with one hand on the throttle and one hand on the stick to keep the tail down. I HATE all the contorsions I have to so in most tail draggers to be able to hold the stick back AND push the starter at the same time.

Rear pedals

I'm interested in providing enough controls in the back seat of an -8 to legally carry a safety pilot for practice approaches and an instructor at least for BFRs (I haven't checked the regs to see if pedals are required, but I'm guessing they are). I'd also like the back seat pilot to be able to land the taildragger in an emergency, but they'd need some way to at least stop the engine from the back if they have no brakes.

Are the rear seat pedals removable, or has anyone made them removable? My wife won't want any pesky controls infringing on her space back there when she's in the plane.

(As a sidenote to people thinking of side-by-side seating for a spouce, my wife has flown in front and in back in various planes, and prefers the extra comfort and space typically available in the back, when there's no one else sitting beside her. She's never out of the picture with an intercom.)

Back seat throttle/rudder

Having flown in the PIC mode in the back seat and also having flown the T38 and F4, I can add that Van's rear seat throttle and rudder kit are worth the few bucks to have semi dual controls but these are not adequate to train a newbie to fly the RV8. The front seater needs to have good pilot skills before he jumps in front seat with you in back. Namely you don't need starter switch, boost pump, flap switch etc, front seater can always handle that. As far as instruments go I have a Garmin 295 on a bracket for the backseater and my wife/ instrument rated pilots thinks that is great along with the more room in the RV8 vs the 7. She has experienced both 8 and 7 and much prefers 8 room vs 7 right seat. As an added feature I have added rear view mirrors to not check 6 with but to be able to see the back seater and have a normal face to face conversation,,also helps see if backseater is not feeling well in spite of what they might be telling you.

Back seat controls and instruments

Capt. Mike,

Thanks the inputs ref. the Garmin 296 and the rear view mirror for the back seat of the -8. And the one I had not heard was more room in the back seat vs. the -7. This will make it easier to "sell" to the wife.

As for an earlier post about putting an inexperience pilot in the front seat of the -8. I agree, they'll have to be very comfortable in starter ops as a min! As for the 20 knot cross wind...maybe not the best day for ANY pilot to fly a tail dragger let alone a "student pilot".

SW

Rear Seat Controls

I currently have rear throttle and rear rudder pedals with flaps, trim, PTT and autopilot disconnect on the rear stick and a rear GRT EFIS panel in the back seat of my to be inspected next week RV-8. I am in the process of planning my next RV-8 and plan to install all of the above with a FADEC engine controls, rear brakes and starter switch in the rear seat of the next beast. The GRT allows the back seater to tune the SL30 along with other neat goodies.

The rear brakes photos are posted online, but I cannot remember where they reside.

Mirror info?

Captain Mike said:

As an added feature I have added rear view mirrors to not check 6 with but to be able to see the back seater and have a normal face to face conversation,,also helps see if backseater is not feeling well in spite of what they might be telling you.

Click to expand...

Mike - I'm interested in learning more about your mirrors. Who makes them, what model, where did you find them, etc. I'd like to put mirrors in my RV-8, but I haven't found any yet that would be good. Mind you, I haven't really started to dig around looking either. A link to a picture would be nice too.

I got this idea from Kahuna....

...in a thread a week or two past - these are just too cool! You get them at Autozone for $7.99 per pair (get the ones that fit a Ford), and put some Velcro on them. You can move them to any position you have put velcro, and they give outstanding rear vis....thanks Kahuna!




Paul

Mirrors

Kevin and all,
Here is link that shows mirrors on my recently sold RV8 along with some F16 types.

http://www.knology.net/~mballard/flying.htm

Mirrors are from autozone, added a slot attachment on back, then a number 6 screw with adjustment knob from radio shack to make them adjustable.
Mike