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AFS 'Deck', who has one flying? Need a real moving map.

Kahuna

Moderatoring
I had my hands on the new AFS 3500 today and the moving map was not doing it for me. Could not get cursor movement to airspace information.

Its the same problem I have with my GRT HX unit. Im looking for someone who has a flying AFS 'deck' to chit chat about the moving map functions. The "deck' unit has the joystick functions and I want to learn more about it.

Im ready to ditch my MX-20 but I need a moving map that one can use a sole means of navigation.

Thanks
 
Face it Mike - what you really want is a 696....best moving map I have yet to use in an "affordable" cockpit.....
 
AFS has their own online forum on their website that you might want to use to post this question. Also, the Advanced Deck (4500) is not shipping yet so nobody has one except for Stein who I believe has a prototype without the new processor.

I have two on order and I'm planning on using their MAP feature along with my GNS430W to hopefully eliminate the need for an external GPS like the 696. I also plan on using it to display traffic and weather.
 
Ahh. Not shipping.

Their website says July 08 so figured SOMEONE would have it flying.

That explains why there have been no responses. Rats. Im stuck!

Does the 696 have a horizonal mode? I cant get that thing in vertically, but it might fit horizontally. I poked around the web and cant find the answer which makes me think its vertical only. ARGH!
 
Does the 696 have a horizonal mode? I cant get that thing in vertically, but it might fit horizontally. I poked around the web and cant find the answer which makes me think its vertical only. ARGH!

I dont think it does-------buttons seem to be labeled for vert use only.

FFIW, I have found that for my AvMap, which is physically almost identical, the vertical mode is way preferable because you get a better picture of what is ahead of you, instead of what is to the side of you.

The AvMap will however mount either way-------but the Garmin seems win hands down in all of the other areas.
 
We are adding the ability to select Airspace with the knob. It will be in our next release. If you want to Beta test it kahuna email me at [email protected] or call.

Todd Stehouwer
Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
616 245-7700
www.grtavionics.com

Man is that great news. If it works, a second GRT HX screen will go on my panel. Do you have any other items in your pocket? You should be talking about your feature sets. Folks are making decisions every day.
Thanks
Mike
 
you have any other items in your pocket? You should be talking about your feature sets. Folks are making decisions every day.
Thanks
Mike

I second Mike's comments!

Your competition is much better at describing near term features. It would be nice to understand what features you are planning on delivering in 2009.
 
concur. what can we look forward to - near term.

GRT is one of my 3 finalist, and I could be making a purchase decision during the Sport Expo in Sebring end of the month. I'm "leaning" towards GRT anyway, but some competitors are sure good at showing me what I could get if I wait a couple of months.
 
Terrible map functions

I think I would be safe in saying that virtually everyone who has a GRT or AFS EFIS would be VERY disappointed with the current mapping functions on either system.

It is patently absurd that builders with such expensive two screen systems (and sometimes three screens) on their panel still feel the need to spend thousands more to instal a Garmin GPS (or other) just to get decent map functions showing reasonable detail. It also places a strain on panel real estate.

If either GRT or AFS could come up with a half decent map function they would take a huge lead on the competition. At the moment mapping is the REALLY weak link in these systems evidenced by the fact that virtually every EFIS system seems to be backed up by a 296, 396 or 496 (and now 696). That's a ridiculous situation for such pricey hardware.
 
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I have the solution........

Have Dynon build a black box Flight Deck 180 with no screen. Connect it to the 696. Hack the 696 so when you press the panel button you get the D-180 picture in the top of the 696 vs the current display.
 
I can't speak for any of these vendors but when I talked to GRT several years ago before buying my first system, it was logical for them to not dive into the moving map business quickly. First and foremost, they were using their limited resource pool to deliver us a great EFIS and engine monitor package at a reasonable price. Remember, this is the time that the other "certified" systems were over $25K. I think it is reasonable that many people flying with dual and triple screens are also flying IFR, in which case they need a Garmin-like GPS that is certified anyway. It's hard to be the best in both the EFIS and GPS arenas with the limited budgets that AFS and GRT operate under. Personally, I am glad they are focused on upgrades on the EFIS side of things. They both would be hard pressed to compete effectively with the 696 anyway.
 
I think it is reasonable that many people flying with dual and triple screens are also flying IFR, in which case they need a Garmin-like GPS that is certified anyway.

Most of the pilots I know who have GRT and AFS systems and fly IFR have a Garmin 430. The resolution and size of that screen precludes the possibility of comprehensive mapping functions. Therefore most of them have a Garmin (or some other brand) portable GPS in the panel as well just to get reasonable mapping. It's a ridiculous (and unnecessarily expensive) solution.

Both AFS and GRT are moving to ever larger screens with higher resolution and more graphics power (at ever higher prices) but their mapping functions remain in the stone age.

When one of them finally wakes up and provides the mapping information that both VFR and IFR pilot's really need on those super duper sized high rez screens then builders who are appraising EFISs for potential purchase will undoubtedly vote with their wallets.
 
Man is that great news. If it works, a second GRT HX screen will go on my panel.

Mike, Did you win the lottery or what? What line of IT work are you in, must be a good one!

Let me know where I can get my own money printing machine :cool:
 
Why Disappointed?

I think I would be safe in saying that virtually everyone who has a GRT or AFS EFIS would be VERY disappointed with the current mapping functions on either system.

Bob,

Why would I be disappointed in my choice when I got exactly what I was expecting to get when I purchased the product? The GRT filled EXACTLY the requirements that I needed it to fill, and did it extremely well. AS was mentioned above, no one does everything perfectly - that is why we buy airframe kits from Vans, engines from someone else, avionics from different vendors, and small parts from others....

Would it be nice if GRT gets a kick-butt mapping system developed to go with the already outstanding reliability and performance of the rest of the system? Sure it would. And now that they are using the terrain mapping database they need for Synthetic Vision, they are a step closer to being able to do that. But it is a HUGE step for a small company to maintain maps and software on the scale of the 696 by Garmin. I would venture that Garmin has more software people just keeping the maps up to date than GRT has in their whole company.

I find it no burden to have an additional tool in the cockpit, especially when it contributes to my overall situational awareness. And if a single company offered every single feature I wanted in one single box, would I buy it? Well - I might, but then I would STILL need to install some sort of backup for my own peace of mind - single boxes can fail. Having diverse features in multiple boxes ENHANCES safety in this case. I am very leery of anyone that offers an "all-in-one" IFR solution - history shows they won't survive (unless they are the size of Garmin).

Back in my younger days, when stereos were important, I had a receiver, turntable, speakers, amp, and tape deck, all from different manufacturers - each had a niche. Why should avionics necessarily be any different?

Paul
 
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I agree with Paul. I've been struggling with the whole panel issue since I started the build. I'm not IFR, but like to think I will be someday. I've decided on a two screen GRT, but not the HX; too expensive at this point. Working left to right, I will put a GRT, then a 696, radio stack and then the other GRT.

At first I was disappointed with the mapping features in various EFIS, but the more I thought about it, it didn't bother me. The moving map on the 696 is outstanding, and I don't expect Dynon, GRT or AFS to have anything as good. I'm satisfied with components from different vendors because it provides some redundancy and losing any one component will not leave me high and dry.
 
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I have to agree with Bob on all points. I am disappointed that the moving map functionality is poorer than an 8 year old portable I have.

I find the GRT Synthetic Vision cute, but not helpful for flying really. Perhaps its features will improve and Ill like it. All the EFIS and Nav functionality has been great for years as has the service and support.

I was ready to cross over the new AFS unit untill I got my hands on the moving map and I sighed in disppointment.... as did the owner. He did not know its functionality. Its of no use. One thing that was cool which I did not know was that all the AHRS stuff is integrated into the box. No seperate gismo to mount and plumb. THats pretty nice for me as my panel room behind the 8 is crammed. Still, without a moving map that can be used as a means of sole navigation, its not for me.

Anyway, Ill continue on the moving map venfor hunt till I get one.

best
 
I assume by "useful" you mean for IFR flight? So you are looking for something that will display charts, approaches, IFR routes, etc?

I found the basic mapping of the GRT system adequate for VFR cross country navigating, but I can certianly understand the shortcomings if intended for IFR use.
 
I assume by "useful" you mean for IFR flight? So you are looking for something that will display charts, approaches, IFR routes, etc?

I found the basic mapping of the GRT system adequate for VFR cross country navigating, but I can certianly understand the shortcomings if intended for IFR use.


Absolutely not. Im looking only for VFR at this point. I preformed this simple exercise with a friend the other day on his AFS. This could just have easily been my GRT. It went like this:
Me: Lets plan a flight. Go from here (atlanta) to Boston. Just a simple direct to.
Him: OK
Me: Now check out your moving map. Lets slew along. What's that? (I point to a rectangle)
Him: I dunno
Me: Its a MOA
Him: How do you know?
Me: Only cause Ive flown over it. Now what are the altitudes for it? Who is the controlling agency to contact?
Him: ahhhhh. I dunno.
Me: Ok whats that? (I point to another area)
Him: I dunno
Me: Thats Camp David. You would be intercepted if you went in there. Now you would be on a flight plan so they would not let you go in there so dont worry about that. Lets try something else.
Him: Yeah but what if they accidently sent me in there?
Me: You would be shot. Now whats that? (I point to another airspace)
Him: Well thats NY Class B
Me: Great, you recognize the shape. Now what altitude should we decend to to get under it?
Him: Oh I see it. Its 2700'.
Me. No Im afraid thats the other ring next to it.
Him: Well its not showing me the altitude for that ring...
Me. Thats right. The system is not showing you all the altitudes cause it would clutter everything up.
Him: SO how do I get the other altitude?
Me: You cant.
Him: Well that $#@!
Me: Your right!


And on and on it goes.
 
Asking a lot!!

I have a 430 with a 496 for weather and radio. I use them for airspace review and put the flight plan in both. I don't have them linked so I can't Crossfill. I also, novel thought, use the current Sectional to confirm BEFORE I go anywhere that I don't fly on a regular basis, especially if i know I will be in the area of Military airspace.

You are asking a lot for some of these companies to offer everything for a reasonable price. I'm sure the companies will be able to do it soon enough but it will be costly initially and on a continuing schedule.

Although Im a huge proponent of "one brand" it is difficult to do and get all of the features you want and need.

The AFS stuff will have some exciting new features soon and has risen to the top of my list for my new project.
 
I don't know what I'm missing but maybe it is because I had my GRT tied to my 430. All of the airspaces WITH altitudes showed up on the GRT moving map. I never had to guess.
 
You've made some good points about some of the limitations of the current mapping features with AFS. I agree that their first release is lacking, compared to a 696. However, the thing to remember is that it is the 1st release, it only cost $700 to add, the functionality and the updates are free! Also, I'll bet that if you called Rob, you would find out that many of your issues are being addresses in future releases. Heck, knowing them..it's probably already in beta!

The 1st release is perfect for someone like me who already has a GNS430W and simply want a better mapping screen, which shows traffic and weather. I didn't want to pay $$$ for a Avmap or 696 just to get that. Also, my panel is already full. Most of these portable units can only have one interface for either weather or traffic, but not likely both.

It's hard for a EFIS manufacturer to compete in the GPS Mapping market because the EFIS has to provide so much other functionality such as flight instruments, engine monitor, AP, now mapping, traffic, weather,..... Garmin can focus on one thing in their portable units, Mapping! They also get to cash in on a $3,300 price tag!!!

The new Advanced Deck (4500) was delayed because AFS decided to upgrade to a much faster processor. This new unit also has a significant upgrade in memory & storage capacity and a screen with twice the resolution than the 3500 (which was already one of the best). They will also be offering upgrades for existing 3500 users as well.

With the new speed, storage, and better resolution & faster refresh, I believe you will find that they will have all the necessary processing power, storage, and display ability to perform all the necessary functions while also providing mapping features that the majority of people want...for $700!! And...it will only keep getting better with each new FREE software release!!

FREE is not in Garmin's vocabulary!
 
I think Kevin hit the nail on the head here. I wouldn't call everyones EFIS maps completely useless, it is just a matter of perspective. Look back just 10 years ago at what was available even in the handheld market and these EFIS maps blow those away. It's just that our perspective has changed because Garmin sets the bar so high. I was pretty excited when I got my first Garmin B&W "moving map"....but now it looks antique!

That being said, I know for a fact that the AFS maps are evlolving very fast, so are GRT's. While today's versions may not completely compete with Garmin, they are slowly catching up...that being said, it is darned hard to compete with a company that does maps for a living!

My 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Hi, I've been reading this forum for years, but this is my first post. I been flying behind the Chelton EFIS and as I understand it EFIS systems do not necessarily have the same functionality as handhelds. The Chelton for example, assumes every flight is IFR and therefore you have clearances through the airspace system. It does display and identify airspace by symbology and whether you will penetrate it or not, but does not give much detail such as controlling agency or altitudes as this would really only be useful for VFR operation. This may explain the seemingly rudimentary mapping on these EFIS systems.
 
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Bob Barrow and Kahuna,

To say that ?virtually everyone who has a GRT or AFS EFIS would be VERY disappointed with the current mapping functions? or that ?moving map functionality is poorer than an 8 year old portable I have? is not only insulting it is completely false. I can tell you that we have hundreds of customers who have purchased mapping for their systems and NOT ONE has called to say that they are unhappy

Have you seen and used the map on a 430W? I?d be curious to know just what your 8 year-old portable is and whether it will do any of the following: (I still have a 195, IPAQ with Anywhere Map, 295, 396, and 496)
? A color screen?
? Display airspace vertical boundaries without having to select it?
? Display a course line to the airport as you are scrolling through the nearest airports list?
? Private airports?
? Display Zaon Traffic?
? Display TIS Traffic?
? Display ADSB Traffic?
? Display NexRad Weather?
? Display METARS?
? Airport Remarks?
? Intersections?
? VOR?s?
? Display the current OBS VOR radial inbound and outbound?
? Display the flight plan from a 430W/530W?
? IFR charts?
? Display the GPS selected radial from a 430W in OBS mode?
? Let you select multiple GPS sources?

I am sure that your 8 year-old map has pan and multi-leg flight plans. Our new AF-4500 has a built in Joystick for map panning and we will have multi-leg flight plans before Sun-n-Fun. Yes, we are behind schedule on shipping the AF-4500, but this is due to a delay in our changing processors to one that will allow the display of synthetic vision. We knew it would put us behind schedule, but it was the right thing to do for our customers. I?m not trying to make excuses, just telling it like it is.

The following picture shows the AFS map compared to the new Garmin 696. Notice with the 696 that you have to pan and select the airspace for it to display the vertical boundaries, whereas our map shows them without needing to pan and select. The 696 does not display the OBS selected radial from a SL30 or 430W on the map, the AFS does. The 696 costs a lot of $$$ to keep the nav data current, the AFS nav data is free and updated on our web site every 28 days. The 696 will not display flight plans from multiple GPS sources, while the AFS will display the flight plan from any GPS connected to any AFS screen in the plane. The 696 does not draw a course line to the airport as you scroll through the nearest list, the AFS does. The 696 only displays the text left or right for the traffic pattern, the AFS draws the traffic pattern arrows on the runway diagram. The 696 costs around $400 a year to display the current approach plates without your aircraft position, our current beta test software has the same feature for far less money. We are currently testing geo-referenced approach plates and should have it released before Sun-n-Fun. I believe that Garmin charges around $3000 to unlock and over $1000 per year for this feature. I find that filling your screen with an approach plate while losing your aircraft?s position on the map is not very helpful.

Airport%20Info.jpg

Notice that the runway at HIO is color coded to the current METAR and you can actually see the pattern direction on the runway.


AFS%20Map%20UAO.jpg


Notice that you can actually see the vertical boundaries for the airspace around PDX class C without having to pan and select.

Can you tell the vertical boundaries on this picture from the 696?

G696UAO.jp


Advanced Flight Systems has six full-time engineers working on hardware and software design. We have free software updates and we actually have a hardware update plan for our customers so they do not get left behind. We not only design and sell our products but use them in our own RV-4 and RV-10 aircraft. I have flown over 120 hours in our RV-10 since July using our EFIS and Map as the primary navigation displays. I have done some IFR training with a Garmin G1000 and Perspective and almost all of it with two AF-4500 screens in my RV-10. Have you tested the zoom speed of our map compared to a G1000 ? How long does it take to bring up a chart on the 696? The AFS chart loads almost instantaneously and you don?t see those cute racing circles while it loads.

We are extremely confident in our current mapping product. So confident, that we offer a free five-hour trial so that our customers can try it before they buy it. So far, every customer that I know of that has tried it has been extremely pleased and purchased it. Honestly, all we usually hear is how great our map is. You claim that you talked to someone that was ?disappointed? with our mapping, have they flown with it? If they are truly dissatisfied with it have them contact me and I will refund their money.

Have you flown one of our systems to see how it works in actual flight? Why don?t you come to Oregon and fly my RV-10 on an actual IFR flight and make a fair, thorough and educated evaluation?

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
IFR written passed & almost ready for my IFR check ride in the RV-10


This is only one of the emails that I have received about our mapping:

"Rob, I?ll take it!!!! Used the demo map this weekend for a flight to Boise and back. Over the Cascades I started picking up rime ice (at 44 degrees F!!!) and it got over a half inch thick. About 30 miles out of Yakima I was unable to maintain altitude, and the map gave me outs that I simply would not have been able to be confident about using only my 430W."
Al[/I]​
 
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Sold for sure

Rob,

Thanks for coming on and clearing this up. I knew some one would drop a dime to alert you. Seems some made an uninformed comments based on less than 1st hand experience.

The FD4500 is definitely going in my new project. I love my AF2500 engine monitor. 400 hours without one hint of a problem. Great work, great research to insure it is right before release. As you said, "it is the right thing to do."
 
Rob,
Glad you could make it.
I started this thread looking for someone who had one. What you are talking about here is in development and looks neat, but its not hear. We need it. I wanted to get my hands on one for that reason. I did not know it was still in development.

To address some of your points.
First, while weather is a game changer, I do not consider it moving map functionality. I dont need it to navigate across the country. I dont need TIS, or any of the other great stuff I have. And it is all great and useful. I do need either maps, or moving map.
First my old 295 had all I needed to navigate the country safely and without violating airspace. That to me is what moving map is for, replacement of the VFR charts so keep me from busting space and to navigate. Yes the old 295 is color and it has intersections, VOR's, NBD's, airspece, altitudes, frequencies and so on and so forth. All Im asking for is for a moving map that I can use for sole means of navigation that we are getting from the portables and have been for a decade. And I know its not easy. Im a developer and I build appliances just like your doing. I get it. Im not demanding it, Im a paying customer (I have your 2500) and I'm asking you to support my feature request. And Im not just asking you, Im asking your competition too. I have their stuff as well.

Obviously you think we need this cause your working on it. And Im thankful for that.

And to the "uninformed comment", well Ill let my position speak for its self. I just played with it(3500 model) yesterday. We need better moving maps. We dont have it now in our very expensive EFIS systems that we have been discussing here. Coming soon is great. I look forward to seeing it.

Good discussions and Im enjoying this thread.
 
Two corrections

The 696 does not draw a course line to the airport as you scroll through the nearest list, the AFS does. The 696 only displays the text left or right for the traffic pattern, the AFS draws the traffic pattern arrows on the runway diagram.

Two "small" corrections.....

The 696 does draw a course line to nearest airports as you scroll, and it does show traffic pattern arrows. I just doubled checked, as it's sitting next to this computer as I'm writing.

L.Adamson
 
"I dont need TIS, or any of the other great stuff I have. And it is all great and useful. I do need either maps, or moving map."

"And to the "uninformed comment", well Ill let my position speak for its self."

Kahuna, if all you need is a moving map why are you replacing your MX20 in the first place? Where in my post did I say anything about you being "uninformed"?




Two "small" corrections.....

The 696 does draw a course line to nearest airports as you scroll, and it does show traffic pattern arrows. I just doubled checked, as it's sitting next to this computer as I'm writing.

L.Adamson

Sorry, it must have been on a page that I did not see? This is what it looks like on the one I was using:

696%20airport%20info.jpg


I have found with my 396 or 496 that it can be very difficult to get the cursor to select the correct airspace, I even had one time in Seattle that I could not get it to select the airspace so that I could figure out the altitude. In all the flying I have done with the AFS map I have never had a problem figuring out the airspace vertical limits and have found it far superior than selecting them with a cursor.

In over 700 hours of VFR RV flying I have used a multi leg flight plan around 4 times, all of them going into Oshkosh. I almost always use a GPS direct single leg flight plan. With my IFR flying in the RV-10 I always use the 430W for the flight plan and then all the legs are displayed on the AFS map.

We will have map panning, multi leg flight plans and a number of new features before Sun-n-Fun.


Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
 
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Rob,

Your stuff is the coolest stuff out there. You know it. I know it. And Kahuna knows it :D

Maybe Kahuna just doesn't want you to relax when you're in the lead :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work. I hope to be sending my whole piggy bank your way in the future :)
 
Still discovering what all it can do

I've got an AFS 3500 hooked up to a 496. I'm just out of Phase 1 and am still learning all the AFS map is capable of. I can tell you this though, on my first long cross country to an unfamiliar airport, the feature shown in Rob's first picture with the pop up boxes overlayed on the moving map was very useful. It was nice having a BIG map right in front of me with the airport traffic pattern arrows laid out while flying into a multiple runway environment.
 
I've got an AFS 3500 hooked up to a 496. I'm just out of Phase 1 and am still learning all the AFS map is capable of. I can tell you this though, on my first long cross country to an unfamiliar airport, the feature shown in Rob's first picture with the pop up boxes overlayed on the moving map was very useful. It was nice having a BIG map right in front of me with the airport traffic pattern arrows laid out while flying into a multiple runway environment.

Joe, I suppose the question that needs to be asked is: If the AFS map is so feature rich why have you got a 496 in the panel?. Presumably it's not just for the satellite radio. :)
 
"And to the "uninformed comment", well Ill let my position speak for its self."

Kahuna, if all you need is a moving map why are you replacing your MX20 in the first place? Where in my post did I say anything about you being "uninformed"?

Great ? Rob. First on the MX-20. The MX-20 is very very old technology. While the screen is fine and the functionality of the moving map is good, the old processor just cant handle wx, chartview and traffic without comming to its knees. With the release of the MX-200 model and its new speeds, the MX-20 is slowly becomming a door stop. Finally, right now, a used MX-20 is sellable with the traffic I/O for ~$3k for the cert planes. Every day I wait, that value drops. My intention is to get my money out of the MX-20 right now, and move to a new unit that will kick the MX-20's butt like yours or GRT. I have a couple thousand RV EFIS hours behind BMA, Dynon, AFS, Garmin, and GRT. I need to get the MX-20 out of my panel now while is still works and there is a market for it. It has served me well, but it is a ticking time bomb.

The uninformed comment came from some other poster on a post before yours who clearly does not know my experience in this space. That was not directed at you sorry. I should not have taken that bait anyway. I know better.

In a few weeks Ill get to fly the hours off a plane with the integratedOP Tech unit that looks sensational on the ground. Air ops might be, and based on my experience will be, a whole other story. It will be exciting to toy with for the first time and critique as well:)

These are fun times.
Best,
 
You Have To Get Wet Sometime!

Technology changes all the time. I put off installing my panel till the last minute of construction. I had planed to install a MX-20 but when Rob, AFS came out with his 3000 seres units I was sold! When I bought it, it was only a EFIS with no moving map. Rob had assured me that "new things were coming" and they have. The unit works so well with the 430W, I have shot many approaches and the situational awareness is fantastic. We should be very happy that there are companies like AFS, GRT, and many others that make equipment that we can afford and work so well,, its a good time to get wet! I just hope Rob doesn't forget about us 3400 guys on the upgrades. Love my AFS!!
 
My Experience has been great!

Hey everyone,

I changed the panel in my -4 from steam guages to the AFS-3500 in the spring of 2007.

At the time, they were first beginning to play with mapping in their beta test units. The map would take a signal from any GPS unit connected and show you position on a black map with airspace information. Now there is a nearest function, terrain, obstacles, public and private airports, intersections, display of OBS course from my SL-30, etc.

My airplane is set up with an SL-30 for NAV and a 496 for the GPS, weather and music. I do not have a 430. I have a Trutrak 2 axis autopilot, an airspeed indicator and a Trutrak ADI attitude indicator for backup. Using this setup I fly IFR comfortably in my -4.

Currently for the flight planning I use the 496. Usually I do not plan direct flights because of the terrain around here (Idaho), so I have to use multiple legs. The main problem I have with the 496 mapping is that it is too small. My poor near vision makes the -3500 much easier to read and interpret, especially in turbulence. Also, the airspace effective altitudes displayed all the time on the -3500 are really nice. Trying to get the right airspace to highlight on the -496 can be a real pain. I do not have room in my panel for a 696. One note with this is that for the -3500 the different airspace boundaries and information come on at specific zoom levels, like the -496.

My view of the world is that the primary use of the -3500 for me has to be as a primary flight display - horizon, AS, altitude, etc. since I only have one display and I fly IFR. It really shines in this role. Secondly, it is a good moving map, and I find myself flying with the split screen when I am in the turbulent soup and I don't want to get out my reading glasses to see the -496. This works really well for me.

Now I would also like to say that the map system could use some improvements. I would really like to have the multiple leg flight planning feature and the ability to pan the map along the flight path.

The beautiful thing is that Rob has told me this stuff is coming. I have had the fortune to beta test some of the improvements he has made to the system along the way, and some of the features that are on the system now are as a result of people like me giving him feedback and suggestions on what they would like to see as a feature or function. And in every case in my experience when he has committed to adding something he has delivered. So, multiple leg flight plans are coming.

My view of the world is that I have what I need in the cockpit with the AFS system. It has delivered more and more features with the updates as time has gone on, and now is a very full featured EFIS system. I think I got way more than I expected when I originally bought the unit. If you want the functionality of a Garmin 1000 that includes flight planning and every possible feature, maybe you should buy a G900X? Let's see, that is a bit more money. I couldn't be happier with what I have.
 
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Joe, I suppose the question that needs to be asked is: If the AFS map is so feature rich why have you got a 496 in the panel?. Presumably it's not just for the satellite radio. :)

Hi Bob,

I don't have the satellite radio subscription yet. ;) I was trying to comment on the one feature mentioned in my post. I really don't have enough hours on my airplane to be anywhere near an expert. I apologize if I misled anyone into thinking I believe the AFS map is "feature rich". I don't think I used words anything like that, but can see where the title of my post may lead a person to jump to that conclusion. Thanks for the "smiley".

My limited experience mirrors N99BT's. The 496 is in the middle of my panel and above the radio stack and the moving map is too small. I purchased my avionics before AFS came out with its own external gps, XM weather, or even terrain. The 496 was going to be used to fill those requirements. The feature list just keeps on growing, all those features are available and now the 496 is nearing redundancy or back up duty. I'm a vfr pilot and have An ADI PII autopilot. I'm concerned about too many features that I won't use making the unit hard to operate. (Not really)!:D

Do I think it is a mature system... nope! Do I think it is quickly headed that direction... I'll let everyone decide for themselves.

Bottom line is I'm very happy. Rob has delivered way more than promised and it just keeps getting better. I had an issue while wiring up my AFS to intercom to get voice alerts and a phone call had Rob personally giving me advice. He didn't know me from Adam. Just my pleasant experience so far.
 
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