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Dual com radio question

Vince Koehn

Well Known Member
I have a 430 in my airplane as my only com radio and at times wish I had put a audio panel and 2nd com radio in. If I would do this my Flightcom intercom would not need to be used. This means cutting into the panel and wiring in a audio panel and 2nd com and wiring the 430 into the audio panel....big job. :cool:
My question is this....for those of you running a 2nd com would you tackle what I am thinking of doing or am I just dreaming about how useful I would find a second com. I am especially thinking of monitoring one frequency and transmitting on the other. I wish the 430 allowed you to do this.
How much do you like having that 2nd com?

Thanks,
 
I think for VFR it's optional, but for IFR it is almost a must. This is coming from the socal area however. It's normal to have to pick up an ATIS and talk to approach at the same time because of the contricted airspace. ATC in socal ASSUMES that most people have the capacity to monitor ATIS while talking to them. Leaving the freq to get the ATIS is done in VFR quite oftain, but Socal is leary of doing it in IFR. Also it's a very nice feature when doing formation flights, Lead flys with approach monitoring 122.75 and #2-4 fly with 122.75 monitoring approach... That way everyone knows what's going on, no surprises.

Worth it IMHO.

Also PSE7000B or higher with stereo jacks and audio imput is the audio panel I recommend.
 
Split the difference

osxuser said:
I think for VFR it's optional, but for IFR it is almost a must......................................Also it's a very nice feature when doing formation flights, Lead flys with approach monitoring 122.75 and #2-4 fly with 122.75 monitoring approach.......................................

I too have thought at some point to install a second comm radio and my question is this. Reluctant to install a second antenna, I would prefer to go with a (pricey) comm splitter and use the same bent whip antenna already installed. Any user reports or comments about using one antenna for 2 comms?

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
I've been running 2 comms for many years. VERY convenient, audio panel not needed. Two antennas are better than a splitter. Splitters work fine for receivers but not so good for transmitters.
Mel...DAR
 
How far apart?

I like the redundancy of dual comm. radios. The airport and airspaces I fly are typically very busy and I want to make sure I can hear and be heard.

Dual comms are extremely helpful when you want to quickly listed to the AWOS or flight service stations.

I do like Mel?s suggestion about running two antennas in lieu of the expensive audio panel.

QUESTION?..how far apart to you have to space the antennas to make sure they don?t interfere with each other?
 
Definitely two antennas....

You can't put two transmitters on the same antenna - they'll blow each other up! :eek:

At least that is what common wisdom has always been, and I know it was true for older radios. I wouldn't be surprised if the newer radios are protected against actual damage from this (they are protected from just about eveyrthing else!), but two antennas are still a good idea. I'm running one on the belly, and one in the wingtip. The wingtip will not have as good of range or reception, but makes a good ATIS/Flight Watch/Formation/Clearance radio.

Paul Dye
 
I've been running 2 comms for many years. VERY convenient, audio panel not needed. Two antennas are better than a splitter. Splitters work fine for receivers but not so good for transmitters.


How do you run two coms without an audio panel? Just put in a switch to flip from com1 to com2? You still able to monitor both radio transmissions without an audio panel?
 
I would not be without the 2nd radio

I started with one comm and added the second after flying. You do NOT need an audio panel. I used a DPDT switch to switch the 'key' and 'mic audio' coming from the intercom to the two radios. Switch is mounted in the panel next to the radio on the pilot side. The switch is where the top radio and bottom radio meet so that when the switch is up, you transmit on the top radio. Down, you transmit on the bottom radio. To keep the audio output from overloading the 'other' radio, I used a 100 ohm resistor in series with the audio output then ran it to the intercom. I just turn the volume up and down on the radio that is the secondary one. With a GX60 and SL30, I can monitor 4 comm frequencies at the same time. I also can monitor the VOR if needed. In additon to that, there are alarms from the RMI microMonitor, marker beakon audio, and entertainment system all running into the headset.

Bob Nuckles AeroElectric connection show how some of this is done. Yes I am an Electrical Engineer and this was easy for me but may be confusing to others.

I love having the second comm. Before adding the second comm and replacing the first, I had a plug that ran from the AUX input on my King Nav/Com for my handheld. I could monitor ATIS on the handheld while talking to ATC on the Nav / Comm. I have always had two antennas. You can get an expensive box (diplexer) that will split one antenna to two radios so that the receiver is protected when the other transmits but the 2nd antenna is cheaper. See Randy Levold's RV-8 web site on how he used the King KX-99 to split one antenna to two radios. Only 1 radio could be used at a time with this set up but there are diplexers availble for lots of money that will allow both radios to recieve and disconnect the other when one transmits.
http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT: King Antenna Adapter
Please do not ask me to research a diplexer that will work. The 2nd antenna is cheaper.


Gary A. Sobek
RV-6, N157GS, O-320 Hartzell
1,799+ hours flying SoCAL
1st flight Sept 1997
EAA TC, A&P, DAR

N819VK said:
I have a 430 in my airplane as my only com radio and at times wish I had put a audio panel and 2nd com radio in. If I would do this my Flightcom intercom would not need to be used. This means cutting into the panel and wiring in a audio panel and 2nd com and wiring the 430 into the audio panel....big job. :cool:
My question is this....for those of you running a 2nd com would you tackle what I am thinking of doing or am I just dreaming about how useful I would find a second com. I am especially thinking of monitoring one frequency and transmitting on the other. I wish the 430 allowed you to do this.
How much do you like having that 2nd com?

Thanks,
 
SL40 & Garmin 340

I have made up my mind I am putting in a Garmin 340 audio panel and a SL40 com radio. I am not opposed to the idea of a simple switch, but you can buy the Garmin 340 audio panels pretty reasonable. Its amazing how reasonable $1200 sounds after spending over a $100k building this thing. I love this airplane. :D This will make my stack...
Garmin 340
Garmin 430
SL40
Garmin 327

I think I will like that! :p

Thanks to all for the input...much appreciated.
 
Would it be workable to have two com radios with a switch on the stick that allowed you to move from one to the other to transmit....and to listen to both? You could turn down the volume on the one you did not want to listen to. A small annunciator light could tell you which one was active as the transmit radio.

Would you need two antennas in that setup?
 
I was thinking you might save much of that wiring fun by considering a slight change.

I have a 530 and flying with it for 600 hrs.-- flew 350 hrs. with it and a back up and every flight in SoCal on flight following. and monitored the second radio and used it to get ATIS. and then got my IFR ticket.

Then I bought a Cessna 140 last Oct. and have flown it 60 hrs. same airspace with one KY-97. Same Wx but no GPS approaches.

Came to the conclusion that I didn't need to throw the kitchen sink at the RV; just need a Nav/com, IFR GPS if possible, with built-in stand-by channel monitoring ability. Like the SL-30 or IIRC the Garmin 480. The 480 has a built in audio also. FWIW.

I'd swap the 530 in a heartbeat and wouldn't even consider a small 430. Although it's a pretty screen.

Vince, as you know, your interior and panel influenced mine quite a bit. (your plane's interior pict is taped to my door 2 ft away.)

So I thought it might be a simpler idea (as I'm glancing at your panel)

I'd sure your panel will be stunning no matter what you decide.

mark
1028054ca.jpg
 
WOW! Talk about patience

No way would I do the surgery necessary to put in a second panel mount com. It is convenient but definitely not necessary even in southern California, in the LA basin, IFR or VFR. Buy yourself a good hand held for emergency backup. Necessary changes will have to be made as time goes by but the major surgery you are contemplating is not one of them. Maybe if you have a tip-up with back of panel access from the top and bottom it's not as bad as I invision. Contamination, breakage, recessed connector pins, shorts, opens, wiring mistakes, installation incompatibilities are risks you are going to have to deal with - for what gain? I have an SL-40 and an SL-60 in my RV-6A with two bent whip antennas on the bottom and an audio panel incuding a marker beacon receiver and intercom and the only time the SL-40 ever has its audio panel switch on is after I start up to listen to ATIS while the SL-60 is running through it's self checks. Listening to two radios, in busy airspace especially, is not an easy thing to do without missing calls if you are focusing on getting important information off of #2. If you don't have the ATIS and Approach doesn't have time to give it to you they will tell you to advise when you have it - advise them you will be off frequency for a short time (you should have done this earlier by the way) to get it - get it and call them back.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob Axsom said:
... If you don't have the ATIS and Approach doesn't have time to give it to you they will tell you to advise when you have it - advise them you will be off frequency for a short time (you should have done this earlier by the way) to get it - get it and call them back.

Bob Axsom

In actual, i've had them hesitate to give the frequency change and be WAY to busy to read it off to you. Like I said, I feel it is necessary in IFR/IMC.
 
They can't have it both ways

Only one radio is required and if you wait until you are handed off to 121.3 for example before getting the ATIS for SNA things are going to be tight. However, if they tell you to get it and you are at that point you either get it or tell them you are unable without leaving the frequency. Over 15 years or so that I flew in there every work day if they told me to get it, I went and got it and called them when I was back. As you know they are always talking over the long winded ATIS broadcast meaning you have to listen to it three or four times to get the critical items. I did not hesitate to mute them so I could get the info and and back on line in one shot. If I got the altimeter, wind, active runway, ceiling, visibility and information identifier in a tight situation I didn't stay around to listen to all of the standard ATIS flack - "read back all hold short instructions ...", etc. before calling SOCAL back and telling them I had information XXX. The man can do what he wants but he seemed to have a question about actual experience and mine says you can certainly work the system with one com radio. As I said, I would have a hand held backup ready even if I had two panel mounted coms.

Bob Axsom
 
TWO antennas? One will do even for TX

Not sure if this was mentioned but they DO have splitters to use ONE antenna that will auto switch to prevent damage to the other radio connected to the same antenna.

http://www.comant.com/pdfs/[ci 601]5-05.pdf


Pretty cool. ONE ANTENNA IS GOOD ENOUGH? Never used one or know cost.

George


NEVER MIND, I just looked up the price and it list for $679!!!!
 
Last edited:
GMA340 vs PMA8000B

Have you considered the PS Engineering's new PMA8000B? It starts shipping this week!

You should at least take a quick look at it before purchasing your audio system, it may cost a few hundred more, but you get a whole lot more practical stuff!

www.ps-engineering.com/pma8000b.shtml

Thanks
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
 
GARMIN GMA340 (347) compared to PMA8000B

Thanks Vince for asking. I'll try to keep this brief and too the point.

For the last 20 years, we have focused all of our energies in audio systems for GA single and twin-engine aircraft. I think it is safe to say that PS Engineering has led the field in innovation and value.

The mix has changed with GARMIN's intro of the GMA347. In my opinion, the majority of the GMA347 new capabilities, PS Engineering audio panels had already made available since 1997. Capabilities like automatic VOX, cellular telephone input, aircraft radio digital recorder.

After evaluating a GMA347, I have found that it does not have all of the capabilities that the new PMA8000B has.

For purposes of keeping this simple, please know that the GMA347 is a superset of functions of the GMA340, meaning it does everything the 340 does and then has several new functions. So I?ll be comparing, for the most part, the GMA347 and the PMA8000B.

IntelliVox versus GARMIN?s automatic VOX.

I haven?t flown behind the GARMIN?s new automatic VOX, but I can tell you that there are over 20,000 pilots who are flying behind our IntelliVox, including all 2000 ? 2004 Raytheon Bo?s and Barons (which is otherwise an all GARMIN stack), and to the best of my knowledge, we have very few, if any, customers who aren?t delighted with its performance.

And while GARMIN kept the ability to have manual VOX, I think if you research the field results of our IntelliVox, pilots will tell you that it works flawlessly and that there is never a need t\for an adjustment. So we kept the extra knobs off the faceplate, and used this valuable real-estate for much better uses.

Front Panel Utility Jack ? Exclusive in the PMA8000B

This is a first in the industry. This jack can be used for connecting your cellphone, your iPod (with all the gain necessary to hear your tunes), or even the output from the GARMIN GPS396. In fact, this utility jack is smart. For example, if the PMA8000B determines you are playing a panel mounted entertainment source, it will configure the front panel jack as an unswitched input (GPS396 TAWS output). And as you will learn later, this jack, as well as the other two entertainment inputs, can be configured by the pilot to do just about anything one can imagine.

Front panel pilot selectable configurations versus PC connected configurations

Through the PMA8000B (3) front panel function keys (A,B,C), the pilot can determine (using our Virtual Technical Support ? voice annunciations of selected functions) how the entertainment inputs will perform. While the 347 can be configured using a PC, it does not have the flexibility that would allow the pilot to change how the entertainment inputs are routed, nor does it allow the passengers the opportunity to changing their muting functions. The PMA8000B if front panel configurable, the GMA347 requires removal and placement on a PC to change its functions. Again please note, to the best of my knowledge is no capability in the GMA347 that allows the passengers to change their muting function or music routing, the PMA8000B does.

Cellular Telephone Interface

When the phone is being used, the 8000B mutes whatever entertainment is being heard for whoever is on the phone. The 347 does not mute entertainment, forcing the pilot to either turn off or turn down the entertainment. May not sound like a big deal, but when you are flying; the less one has to do to accomplish a task the better, in my opinion.

Plug and Play with GMA340

The PMA8000B is backward compatible with the GMA340 while the GMA347 is not. In addition, the GMA347 connector has (2) 78 pin connectors versus the 340?s (2) 44 pin connectors. And with the PMA8000B front panel utility jack, if you are upgrading a GMA340 with a PMA8000B, you get all of the capabilities of the 8000B without having to add any wires at all.

Music Fidelity and Flexibility.

In my opinion, PS Engineering wins hands down on this issue. But you will really have to make that determination for yourself. Talk with a friend or chat with a fellow pilot at your airport, and ask about our audio fidelity, both intercom and music. And as was discussed above, there really aren?t any limitations on who hears what when, when it comes to entertainment with the PMA8000B, including having the Karaoke or Mute modes for all headsets. This is not the case with the GMA347. (Note: reports from the field indicate a major detractor of the GMA340 is it?s inability to provide low noise high gain from iPods and other devices, nor having the ability to stop the aircraft radio from muting the entertainment when the pilot would like to select this mode)

Digital Recorder

In 1992, GA was first introduced to a digital aircraft recorder in FLIGHTMATE. In 1994, the Internal Recorder System (IRS) was available as an option in PS Engineering?s intercoms. And now, this capability comes standard with the PMA8000B, at no additional cost. While the GMA347 now has added capability, we can say that we have 1,000?s pilots using the IRS to help them to stay on top of their radio communications. Both units have the playback function on the front panel.

Warranty
We provide a 3-year warranty, and then a fixed repair fee of $109. In the first year, if there are any troubles with our 8000B, assuming the unit was installed using our custom wire harness or by one of dealers, we can provide at a nominal fee, a replacement unit that would be shipped overnight at our expense, the day we get the call. The last two years of the 3-year warranty, we ask the customer to pay for the shipping the unit back to the customer. To the best of my knowledge, I don?t know of any other avionics manufacturer that guarantees same day warranty exchange as a standard warranty service.

Pricing

The difference in the purchase price of the 340 and the 347 is somewhere between $300 - $500. The MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) of the PMA8000B is $1695. So in reality, the price between what you can purchase the PMA8000B and the GMA347 will be close, if not in fact, less than the GMA347!

I really tried to keep this as short as I could, and I hope I accomplished in getting the information you will need when you make your audio panel purchase decision.

If not, just let me know what questions you might have and I'll be glad to answer to the best of my abilities.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
www.ps-engineering.com
[email protected]
 
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