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Wing Decisions

RV7Factory

RV7Factory

Chief Obfuscation Officer
I just started my wings and I am beginning to realize that I need to start thinking about some of the decisions with regards to how I equip my bird. I came up with the following short list of items I may want to think about or plan for as I build my wings. This is not a list of things I want, just a list of things to consider. Am I missing anything or are there items I shouldn't worry about now (maybe Autopilot)?

I am not looking for product recommendations, I just don't want to find myself saying "I should have thought about this earlier."

- Lighting (ldg/taxi, strobes & position lights)
- Fuel Senders
- Fuel Pickups or Flop-Tubes
- Pitot Mast
- AOA System
- Autopilot Servo
- Missles and/or Guns

Thanks!
 
Brad, I am not going to get all wordy on you here. These are my plans:

- Lighting-Dual 55w Duckworks & LED's by unknown vendor
- Fuel Senders-Caps
- Fuel Pickups or Flop-Tubes-Flop in left, standard in right
- Pitot Mast-SafeAir kit with AOA
- AOA System-Dynon
- Autopilot Servo-TruTrack (get it later with finishing kit)
- Missles and/or Guns-7.62x39 (cheapest to buy in quantity)

Sounds like you are asking all the right questions!

:) CJ
 
Wings

RV7Factory said:
I just started my wings and I am beginning to realize that I need to start thinking about some of the decisions with regards to how I equip my bird. I came up with the following short list of items I may want to think about or plan for as I build my wings. This is not a list of things I want, just a list of things to consider. Am I missing anything or are there items I shouldn't worry about now (maybe Autopilot)?

I am not looking for product recommendations, I just don't want to find myself saying "I should have thought about this earlier."

- Lighting (ldg/taxi, strobes & position lights)
- Fuel Senders
- Fuel Pickups or Flop-Tubes
- Pitot Mast
- AOA System
- Autopilot Servo
- Missles and/or Guns

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You forgot drop-tanks and anti or de-ice system :cool:

Actually, your list is the same one I came up with - so I hope you didn't miss anything!

The autopilot servo can be added after the wings are done (saves buying it way early).

Dennis Glaeser
7A Wings (prosealing the second tank...)
 
Brad...

Although I didn't opt for them, if you want to use Van's "Deluxe" fuel caps, they have to be built into the tank--you can't retrofit later.

As far as all the other stuff... most can be decided on later assuming you leave the bottom skins off until the last possible moment. One thing you might want to do ahead of time, though, is drill any conduit/wiring holes in the ribs you think you might need and probably cutting out the leading edge for landing lights if you go Duckworth. They can both be done later, but not quite as easy.

good luck.
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
One thing you might want to do ahead of time, though, is drill any conduit/wiring holes in the ribs you think you might need and probably cutting out the leading edge for landing lights if you go Duckworth. They can both be done later, but not quite as easy.
Click to expand...
If you are going to use the Dynon Pitot tube w/ their AOA, drill the holes for the extra air line at the same time you drill the hole for the pitot line.

Sounds like you are right on track.
 
Thanks guys! This is exactly the feedback I was looking for.

I bought and am planning on using the vans conduit for wiring and I was also planning on drilling out the other small holes and inserting snap bushings for the pitot/AOA lines. After reading comments about AOA systems over the past few months, I have come to the conclusion I would really like one in my airplane. I like the functionality and look of the AFS system (with it's audible warning) but if I go with a Dynon EFIS, the AOA is built in. This is where the want vs need struggle come in. :) Ok, maybe its the want vs. really want struggle. :D Decisions... Decisions... what's a builder to do? :p

I hadn't thought about the Deeee-lux caps (which I do want), and I am glad to hear I can skip the servo for now. Anyone know if Vans will take back the stock caps for credit?
 
RV7Factory said:
I like the functionality and look of the AFS system (with it's audible warning) but if I go with a Dynon EFIS, the AOA is built in.
Click to expand...

At Arlington, WA this summer Dynon said they were working on audible warnings for AOA, but I didn't get the impression it is high priority. I think all of us who are thinking Dynon to let them know we want that. Certainly with the D100, the AOA indicator would be large enough to be very useable.
 
I've been keeping tabs on Dynon through their support forums... Audible Warnings, GPS Integration, a Heated Pitot, etc.... they certainly seem to be working on a lot new stuff, or at least thinking of it. I just hope they get some of it done before I make my decision. :cool:

In the end, I would probably forgoe the functionality of the AFS system in favor of the Dynon (assuming I bought a Dynon)... why bother spending an additional $1500 for something I would already have (somewhat).
 
Antennas?

You guys have pretty well summed it up, except for any antennas you might want in the wingtips.
I am putting in the Archer VOR antenna so I needed a coax run as well.


Duane Wilson
RV9A Fuselage
N141L reserved
 
They will take back the other caps. I think it is like a $40 credit. I gave them to Wicked Stick for his RV-4 to have as spares.

...a small price to pay for some RV time!

:p CJ
 
Coax cable in Conduit

Is anyone flying with wingtip antenna/strobes with wiring and coax in the same conduit run? Any interference problems?
 
Yup, nope

CFI1513840 said:
Is anyone flying with wingtip antenna/strobes with wiring and coax in the same conduit run? Any interference problems?
Click to expand...

I have only one conduit in my wings. My strobe, landing light, and position light wires run right next to multiple RG-400 coax antenna runs, same conduit. I use a central strobe power supply, so it's the "high tension" strobe wires running in the wing conduit. No interference. The proximity is irrelevant if you ground things properly.

Built my electrical system as per AeroElectric Connection Figure Z-11, and I grounded nearly everything at one singular, central forest of tabs. I grounded only the power supply ends of the shielding on the strobe wires.

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
 
Thanks for the tip

Dan,

Thanks for your input. I just ordered the Aeroelectric Connection manual and will be looking at Z-11.
 
I found out at the weekend that the mounting bracket for the Trutrak wing servo is available on its own - much easier to install with the wing open - then get the servo later.

I disagree with Dan on the wisdom of running all of the wires together. While he may have suffered no problems, I have some good friends who work in the electromagnetic compatibility field - their advice is to separate the stobes wires from radio signal feeds (co-ax). There is plenty of space by running an additional conduit behind the first lightening hole.

Also a wing tip mounted marker beacon antenna is worth considering.

Pete
 
RV7Factory said:
I just started my wings and I am beginning to realize that I need to start thinking about some of the decisions with regards to how I equip my bird....................................... Fuel Senders.........
Thanks!
Click to expand...

You must decide before you complete the fuel tanks if you want to go with capacitive type fuel senders. The plates must be installed on the ribs inside the tanks during construction. In fact the quickbuild kits with premade fuel tanks do not allow the option. A pity. Very accurate, I installed the FL-2C and am pleased with it. The display incorporates both a digital readout and simulated analog readout that blinks a reminder to switch tanks when a fuel imbalance exists. I think it is approximately a 4-5 gallon difference. With a center switch on the instrument, you can quickly position the switch to read the amount of fuel (in one gallon increments) contained in each tank or the total amount in the TOTAL position. A nice instrument.
fl2c204ea.jpg

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
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penguin said:
I disagree with Dan on the wisdom of running all of the wires together. While he may have suffered no problems, I have some good friends who work in the electromagnetic compatibility field - their advice is to separate the stobes wires from radio signal feeds (co-ax).
Click to expand...

And what, exactly, is the rationale behind separating them?! I'd like to hear specifics. What's the "risk" in running them together? Again, we're assuming a WELL designed and built electrical system.

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
 
The only risk is noise

dan said:
What's the "risk" in running them together? Again, we're assuming a WELL designed and built electrical system.
Click to expand...
The high current in the strobe wires can induce current in other wires (aka noise), but that's why you use shielded wire. Properly shielded wire practically eliminates the issue.
 
dan said:
And what, exactly, is the rationale behind separating them?! I'd like to hear specifics. What's the "risk" in running them together? Again, we're assuming a WELL designed and built electrical system.
Click to expand...


Ben is right, the rationale is to avoid inducing stray currents in lines where that would cause trouble (lower power radio signal feeds). But I don't believe he is correct in saying that properly shielded wire eliminates the issue.

The risk is that the pulseing current in a strobe feed will induce currents in wires that run nearby and parallel. The induced currents will be mainfest as noisy audio signals or will reduce the range that nav radios get a useable signal. Bear in mind that received radio signals are often quite weak, so it only takes a small stray current to upset things. Its just physics, current flow induces a magnetic field, moving a conductor through a magnetic field induces a current, a rising & falling field (strobe feed) will induce a current in a stationary conductor nearby. Using coax, and properly grounding the shields will help, but might not be the whole solution. A small amount of separation goes a long way. Putting the strobe feed through grommets just aft of the spar and running a conduit per the Van's SB aft of the first lightening hole for the radio coax will be better than running both together.

Clearly Dan's system does not need the additional separation. Maybe others will not be so fortunate? I'm going to run an additional conduit through one wing for VOR & marker beacon feeds.

Pete
 
I agree with Dan. I have also heard Bob Nuckolls say the same thing.

From an electrical standpoint, around every current carrying conductor, there is a magnetic field. Induction could take place if it were not shielded. This is not the case. We are discussing shielded conductors.

Moot point, really. Dan is right, but you are not wrong for separating them. Keeping distance between them won't hurt a bloody thing.

Me? I am using a shared conduit.

Keep in mind, I am an idiot.

:D CJ
 
Captain_John said:
I agree with Dan. I have also heard Bob Nuckolls say the same thing.

Me? I am using a shared conduit.

Keep in mind, I am an idiot.
Click to expand...


It doesn't bother me what you do, I'm only trying to share the experience of people who have been designing military airplanes for 20 years. The topic happened to come up at work the other day. I have to run another conduit through the wing as the grommets are not large enough to take 2 coaxs, so I'm going to route them separately from the strobe feed.

Pete
 
My RV Will Not Meet MIL-Specs!!!

penguin said:
I'm only trying to share the experience of people who have been designing military airplanes for 20 years.
Click to expand...
Sure, if you follow all of the MIL-Specs you're system will most likely be very robust, but it'll also be really heavy. ;)

Shielding on a wire effectively creates a Faraday cage around the conductor blocking the electric field. Granted, shielded wire is not a perfect Faraday cage since the shield is generally mesh, and the ends of the wire have to have some sort of termination.

Anyway, Dan was not just fortunate to have noise free radios. They are noise free because he properly grounded and shielded his wiring. Sure, if you hook his radio up to a super-duper oscilloscope you can probably dectect some noise, but in this case the only noise that matters it what can make it through the radio's tuning/filtering into your ear.
 
Then we will have to agree to disagree. BTW we do not build to MIL-SPECs any more - the govt cannot afford it, there are only a very few called out on the program I am working on. I think you are putting too much faith in the abilities of coax and the filters in the radios. A shield cannot block out a magetic field, which is what is inducing the noise. Shielding will block extraneous RF, but that's not the problem here.

Pete
 
Just to clarify

1) The shield on your strobe leads is there to block the magnetic field. You are also correct that it is blocking RF. RF is just a magnetic field that is changing at a given frequency.

2) You may not build to MIL-Specs anymore, but they are still very much in use including where I work, and the govt does pay for it.
 
I'm pretty uninformed when it comes to the physics of magnetism, but I don't see how a metal mesh can block a magnetic field. All the magnets I played with as a kid pulled just as hard through darned near anything you put in front of em.

Steve Zicree
 
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