What else do I need to save for with wings??

My wing kit will be here early September (hopefully)... Im curious... aside from building the wings, do I have to order all the **** to go with it such as lights, autopilot and servos, pitot, fuel lines, conduit, etc? Or can all that be done later in the build? Im not made of money, so the more I spend buying toys, the longer it will be before I can order that fuse!!

I would put in the pitot lines and the conduit but the rest can wait. Leave provisions or holes open for your pitot mount depending on how it mounts.

Mounting the roll servo without the outboard skin in place is a nice thing. It can be done with the skin in place.
Normally, the roll servo goes in the right wing.
Build the wings, do not rivet the right outboard wing skin till you are ready to install the servo (you can buy the servos serperately from the programmer head, ~$2100 for a roll and pitch).

If you're using leading edge lights, you'll want those now. You can also order the Whelen wiring kit if you're going with strobes. If you are and you're going with single power supply (behind baggage compartment), then that's all you'll need, otherwise you'll want the power supplies so you can mount them. Conduit notwithstanding, it's handy to run wiring and do equipment mounts while you have access. Which brings us to your planned avionics: will you have AOA or other sensors that need to be in the wing? My EFIS uses a magnetometer that I mounted out in the wingtip, along with Bob Archer wingtip NAV and marker beacon antennae. Don't run power (strobe, lights) runs with sensor/antenna wiring. So, you may need more than one conduit plus some lines for AOA. You can generally get the sensors by themselves. Finally, if you're putting a bunch of stuff in the wingtips, you probably want the hardware to make them removable. You don't have to get the stuff that will be in the tips right away, but I found that installing the antennae or lights made a refreshing change of pace when I needed a break from the main sequence of building.

Finally, if you're not ready to decide on you avionics package yet, just leave generous provision for installing it later and build on. 14 years ago, I intended a simple steam gauge panel and only ran lighting runs through my wing. It was difficult, but I managed to get my plane plumbed for the EFIS so there is always room to change your mind.

One thing not mentioned is the proseal. This is a relatively heavy item. If you order it with the wing kit, shipping will essentially be free. You might also order extra 1/4" alumimum fuel line and if you think you will go with a fuel injection system and you might wish to install a fuel return line, order what you need to do that.

I'm building a QB so take my post with a grain of salt. But aside from the proseal which you will need for the tanks and the conduit which is a good idea to lay out before you close the wings, the rest of the stuff can wait. You will have plenty to do until you get there. Leaving the bottom outboard skins off until the very last minute still gives you plenty of access to install all your goodies later on. By then you will have a clearer picture of what you want hanging out there on your wings.

Hope this helps.

PS: I will say one more thing tho, knowing whether you are going with an angle of attack system early on will help you decide if you need to make multiple holes for the pitot tubes. Not impossible to do later on, but it can be a PITA to drill those extra holes once you have the inboard skins riveted on.

Not sure if I want an AOA meter or not... guess I dont really understand the point of it? I know it obviously shows the AOA the aircraft is in, but why would you care?

danielhv said:

Not sure if I want an AOA meter or not... guess I dont really understand the point of it? I know it obviously shows the AOA the aircraft is in, but why would you care?

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Think of the AOA meter as an early warning stall horn. It basically tells you how far you are from stalling the plane. RV's don't come with a stall horn, so without one you are relying solely on IAS for stall prevention.

jmartinez443 said:

Think of the AOA meter as an early warning stall horn. It basically tells you how far you are from stalling the plane. RV's don't come with a stall horn, so without one you are relying solely on IAS for stall prevention.

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Ah! Makes sense now! Ok, so... I am pretty vague as far as what I want in the plane... but here is the "preliminary list" that I think would affect the wings portion of the build:

Wings:

EFIS (Not sure what kind yet, but most have some sort of AOA meter… do I need different static lines etc? or do they come in the kit?)

Autopilot (2 axis, heading hold/altitude hold, gps/vor track, intercept, etc. Altitude preselect would be nice, but not required)

IFR Day/Night capable…

COM/NAV wiring/antennas (not sure if they have anything to do with the wings!)

ADF (undecided…)

NAV Lights (kinda like LED, but not sold quite yet, may just be traditional)

Stobes

Wingtip landing lights with wig-wag (possibly HID?)

Conduit (What's it made out of and where do I get it? How much is enough?)

Marker Beacon

Electric Flaps (wiring etc included in the kit?)

APRS Tracking (still undecided, but it would be cool for people to be able to track me on my flights… With an On/Off switch of course! )

Havent decided on engine... havent even thought about it actually... I'd have to research the pros & cons of carb'd vs fuel injected...


So, with all that being said, what am I going to need in the wings, and what is required to be installed during the build process of the WINGS? Like I mentioned before, I cant afford to dump a bunch of money into stuff Im not going to need until way down the road... but then again, I dont want to build the wings, and then find out I left something out and have no way of installing it if that makes sense?

danielhv said:

Wings:

EFIS (Not sure what kind yet, but most have some sort of AOA meter… do I need different static lines etc? or do they come in the kit?)

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The AFS system relies on differential static ports, IIRC you need to plumb three lines: one static port above the wing, one below, and one for the pitot tube. The standalone AFS systems require an external box to interpret AOA. No idea how their EFIS does it.

The Dynon system requires two lines, both plumbed to their proprietary pitot tube (there are two holes in the pitot tube itself offset by some angle). Not sure if Dynon requires a separate box or if the math is done at the efis.

The MGL EFIS will work with either system and the AOA is computed at the EFIS.

Regardless of system, you will have to plumb these lines to the wing. Van's will include enough plastic tubing to plumb their "excuse for a pitot tube" and the static ports. Anything above and beyond is on your dime. The Safeair pitot/static tubing looks really nice but I have no experience with it.

danielhv said:

Autopilot (2 axis, heading hold/altitude hold, gps/vor track, intercept, etc. Altitude preselect would be nice, but not required)

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Where the servos live will depend on your choice of vendor and the model of RV you are building. I know that for the 8 with the TruTrak AP, all servos live in fuselage (one near the elevator bellcrank, and one near the center control column). Not sure about the 7 but I seem to recall that the pitch servo connects the same. The roll servo may go on the wing and you would need a different aileron bellcrank bracket to install it. TruTrak (not sure about other vendors) will let you buy just the brackets and postpone the purchase of the servos.

Again, do some research on what you want to put out there before you close the wing. Putting servos in the wing after the fact is not impossible but a little more complicated. I think that if you leave your options open by not rivetting the outboard lower skin until you absolutely have to, you can postpone this decision until later.

danielhv said:

IFR Day/Night capable…

COM/NAV wiring/antennas (not sure if they have anything to do with the wings!)

ADF (undecided…)

NAV Lights (kinda like LED, but not sold quite yet, may just be traditional)

Stobes

Wingtip landing lights with wig-wag (possibly HID?)

Conduit (What's it made out of and where do I get it? How much is enough?)

Marker Beacon

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Make provisions for all of this wiring before closing the wings. Have Van's throw a roll of this in your wing kit ($10 for 25 feet) and plumb it in your wing. Run a string thru it and leave it alone until you know what you want to run thru it. If you are going to use a centrally located strobe controller, you will want to run that (high voltage?) wire separate from your other wiring.

COM and NAV antennae will be location dependent, I've seen some builders put wingtip mounted antenas and obviously you would have to run coax out to the tip. I will mount bent whip antenas under the fuse so I didn't account for that in the wing. I'm no electrical whiz but I don't think I want a strobe next to my antena. Maybe those that have successfully implemented that can chime in.

danielhv said:

Electric Flaps (wiring etc included in the kit?)

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Flaps are wired in the fuse so not a factor for your wing kit.

danielhv said:

Havent decided on engine... havent even thought about it actually... I'd have to research the pros & cons of carb'd vs fuel injected...

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Not relevant for your wing kit. You can worry about this when you order your finishing kit where you'll have to select your mount.

danielhv said:

So, with all that being said, what am I going to need in the wings, and what is required to be installed during the build process of the WINGS? Like I mentioned before, I cant afford to dump a bunch of money into stuff Im not going to need until way down the road... but then again, I dont want to build the wings, and then find out I left something out and have no way of installing it if that makes sense?

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For now I would only add the proseal and the conduit. But do start thinking about all the other goodies as you build and don't close the wings until you absolutely have to. Do everything up to riveting the lower-outboard skins.

I hope this helps.

danielhv said:

EFIS (Not sure what kind yet, but most have some sort of AOA meter… do I need different static lines etc? or do they come in the kit?)

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The static kit goes in the fuselage, not the wing. I highly recommend the SafeAir1 kit.

danielhv said:

Autopilot (2 axis, heading hold/altitude hold, gps/vor track, intercept, etc. Altitude preselect would be nice, but not required)

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This can be installed later, not a big deal. It is easier to do while building but I installed mine after it was flying. If you plan on installing a Dynon AP, run five 20 AWG wires out to the right bell crank. I left a pull string in my conduit and used that to pull the wires for the AP servo. BTW, a Dynon AP is less than $2K.

danielhv said:

COM/NAV wiring/antennas (not sure if they have anything to do with the wings!)

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Not required, you can put all the antennas in the fuselage. However, some install a com antenna in the wing and then there is the wiring for the APRS tracking we have been reading about. Your call.

danielhv said:

NAV Lights (kinda like LED, but not sold quite yet, may just be traditional)

Stobes

Wingtip landing lights with wig-wag (possibly HID?)

Conduit (What's it made out of and where do I get it? How much is enough?)

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Run all the wires down the conduit. Van's sell's the conduit and it doesn't cost that much. Check out my wing page for how I drilled the conduit holes in all the ribs.

danielhv said:

Marker Beacon

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No clue, I don't have one.

danielhv said:

Electric Flaps (wiring etc included in the kit?)

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As said above, this goes in the fuselage. However, no wire is included in the kit so you will have to buy that from a source of your choice. (Stein, Affordable Panels, Van's, etc.)

You can install the landing light later but it is best to do it now. I went with the Duckworth 100W lights as I hope to upgrade them to LED's when they become reasonably priced in the future.

AOA is best installed now. If you are going with a Dynon EFIS and want to use their pitot w/ AOA port, DO NOT drill the hole for the Van's pitot.

more two cents

You've gotten a lot of great advice. I'll add the following.

1) Don't bother with alum tube pitot lines. I went through a lot of 1/4" tubing fiddling with pitot plumbing. Then I just ripped it all out in favor of safeair pitot/static tubing. It is lighter, less chance for leak, easier to install and service.

2) You don't need to buy the servo for autopilot, you may be able just to buy the mounting brackets, which would be convenient to have. Trutrak offers the mounting brackets.

3) I think it would be a lot easier to install the pitot during wing construction.

4) Everything else can be done fairly easy after the wings are done.

(If you think you're buying a lot of **** now, just wait. I think my RV grin will be partially induced by not seeing the UPS truck so much anymore, but still thank heavens for web ordering. Can you imagine building a plane before the web?)

Thanks for posting the question - Daniel - and thanks for all the input. My wings are on order, too, and I have the same issues... I don't even know where to start on all of this stuff.

Proseal does have a shelf life... if you order it with the kit, plan to work fast. Also, you can store it in the fridge and extend it's usefulness (thanks Mel!), Definitely do not store it in the garage in TX


I had one engine concern...if your FI system will have a tank return line, it has to be plumbed when you build the tanks (duh)

Joe

Nah, easy to add a return later. Now, the plumbing through the fuselage will be a pain.

As for the suggestion a couple of posts above about not needing the servo, the BMA servo did not come with brackets, nor a connection to the controls. I had to fabricate my own mounting brackets and also the connections, which would have been impossible without the servo. Also, the roll servo in my RV is under the seat, not something I wanted to add after closing up the floors even though it can be done. I'd imagine it would be a lot easier to install a wing-mounted servo before closing the wing, too.

flion said:

Nah, easy to add a return later.

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I guess. My set up has the return line go out to the 3rd or 4th outboard bay, so not sure I could have done that once the rear baffle was on.


Joe

Hmmm, since my FI doesn't include a return line I'm just guessing. Is that located high on the rear baffle so that if the return develops a leak it doesn't drain the tank? If so, all you really need right now is the AN fitting; you could do the line as you fit wing to fuselage. Or, you could plan on the Airflow Performance FI, which doesn't require a return to the tank.

jferraro16 said:

Proseal does have a shelf life... if you order it with the kit, plan to work fast.

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I'll ditto's Joe's response. Wait until a week before you KNOW you are going to be riveting the tanks to order the sealant. It'll cost you like $10 more to buy it when you need it, but it will be fresh and in the grand scheme of things, that's peanuts.

As far as all the other stuff... there really insn't much that needs to be done other than the conduit and any other holes for wiring/tubing runs.

Sure, installing the TruTrak bracket is easier during the build, but it can be done later. Besides, what if you change your mind on which A/P. Trio is looking into releasing their own bracket (it was at OSH), otherwise there's the SafeAir1 kit for the Trio roll servo, which can be added later. Actually, SafeAir1 suggested I wait when I asked them about it.

As far as lighting... This seems to be one of the fastest moving areas in experimental aviation. I cut my LEs for the duckworks lights, but If I had to do it again, I would wait. My tips are untouched, and I will make a decision on which navs/strobes to install when I get to that point.

The only other thing I think you really must decide on is the pitot, but even that can wait if you decide to hold off riveting the bottom-outboard wing skins. I am not recommending you do, but it is an option.

As a data point of someone who is there:

I'm building my first tank right now. I am doing one wing at a time, and won't do the other tank until I'm done with the wing I'm working on.

I just purchased pitot/static/aoa plumbing and the aluminum Dynon pitot mast from SafeAir1. I just purchased conduit, proseal, and one flop tube from Van's. I'm about to purchase the Dynon heated pitot/aoa from SteinAir. I think I'm going to wait quite a while on my lights - I will definitely go LED though. I live very close to ACS, so I'll just buy all my wire from them. AP will be determined later in the project, so I won't do that until after the wings are complete.