Show us your (custom?) center console...

I posted some progress shots of my 7 on the forums a couple of weeks ago and I have had a fair bit of interest in my center console / throttle quadrant set-up so I figured I would start a new thread on the subject....I am sure there are lots of builders out there thinking about throttle quadrant set-ups and the possibilty of center consoles. Here's mine almost finished (accommodating keyswitch, Andair 4-way LR fuel selector and Vans RV-8 Throttle quadrant)........show us a picture of yours.....











Drop me an email if you want detailed info or reply with simple Q's for the benefit of all....

Cheers,

JON.

I would really like to know how you built you console and where you got your material.

Nice work!!!!

PJ

Very nice work!

Beautiful work and I like where you have the quadrant But one thing you should really rethink is the lower panel extension. That two inches or so you added on really makes it a PIA to get in and out and also restricts the person not flying from putting their feet flat on the floor as your upper legs get jammed up under the panel. Just a suggestion as i fly a couple of other 6s that have a lower panel than my 7. Don

yakdriver said:

Beautiful work and I like where you have the quadrant But one thing you should really rethink is the lower panel extension. That two inches or so you added on really makes it a PIA to get in and out and also restricts the person not flying from putting their feet flat on the floor as your upper legs get jammed up under the panel. Just a suggestion as i fly a couple of other 6s that have a lower panel than my 7. Don

Click to expand...

I don't find a problem with the 2" extensions on my 6A, but then there is no center console, and knees can bend some. However the type of quadrant setup in this thread, does look appealing.

edit: I should make note that my 2" extentions angle slightly forward at the bottom. Probably doesn't make much difference, though...........but sure looks good!

L.Adamson

Jon - great work! You have your interior in and have very likely sat in it to make airplane noises - to you and anyone else that has a center console, is there a problem with lateral crowding in regards to your legs? I'm 6'2" and am a little concerned.

cnpeters said:

Jon - great work! You have your interior in and have very likely sat in it to make airplane noises - to you and anyone else that has a center console, is there a problem with lateral crowding in regards to your legs? I'm 6'2" and am a little concerned.

Click to expand...

I'm 6'1.5 and there is somewhat of a problem for me. I think the best answer is to sit in the plane and decide if it's more comfortable to have the ability of swinging knees sideways when on those long A/P controlled cross countries. I bagged my console ideas for that reason (after 40 hours in a 9A with a center console), but for others, it's probably a great way to go.

L.Adamson

Naruto said:

I would really like to know how you built you console and where you got your material.

Click to expand...

Same here. I intend to put a throttle quadrant in my 7A, and am looking for solutions. This looks nice...

How do you plan to get under the panel when time comes? I have spent many hours on my back during a rewire project, and I would lay right where that consol is. Brake cyl maint will be a problem.

BUT IS SURE DOES LOOK SEXEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....................

answers to above queries....

Responses to the posts above follow as best possible.....

First I need to say something that is food for thought. I am an architect by profession and two things (other than safety) matter to me above all others - aesthetics and practicality. Many clients ask us to design houses and then begin briefing the architect placing a high priority on the guest bedroom for the in-laws / friends etc hoping to impress the visitor. I am quick to tell them that we should be designing the house to accommodate the owner (client) rather than the guests.

The same applies for aircraft. Experience tells me that my 7 will be flown by myself 80% of the time. 15% of the time my wife will be beside me and the other 5% of the time I'll have a guest on board. So I'll design my plane to accommodate the two who make up the 95% and the guests can consider themselves lucky just to sit in an RV-7 cause 99.9999999999% of the world will never get the chance!!!

So the above theory plays weight to the following responses / comments:

FIRSTLY WHY DID I BUILD A CENTER CONSOLE:
It looks "SEXEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....................." (per comment above) but most importantly it makes the ergonomics of the interior more functional and comfortable - elbow on the arm rest while operating the quadrant during aerobatics or long trips.....nice! Another important issue is that it provides additional panel space for switches etc if required and a practical map box at easy reach. The fuel gauge is easily reached and better located for visual scans.


PANEL EXTENSION (the hot topic!) AND LEG ROOM GENERALLY:
My panel will be IFR capable accommodating dual GRT HX displays with EIS, Garmin GNS430W, AVMAP EKP-IV, TT Digiflight VSGV, Garmin GTX 327 (later to upgrade to 330), GARMIN SL-40, PMS9000EX. Back-up ASI, VSI, TTADI, ALT. Vert Card compass, G-meter, AOA........Try fitting all that plus switches, breakers, indicator lights etc on a standard Rv-7 panel....not happening. I decided to explore a recessed panel extension to provide functional space for switches, dimmers and breakers. My extension is 2 inch but is recessed and fitted with an angle behind the bottom edge of the panel (so it is 3/4 inch back). It is mounted in such a way that it is 1 3/4 inches lower in effect. This is NOT an issue for ME (or my wife) however this is not the case for everyone. Note that that some people who are 6'2" have short legs - not everyone is the same. I m 5'11" however I have reasonably long legs.

I have PLENTY of clearance above my knees and you will note that the centre console tapers inwards behind the top surface folds of the triangular area to provide improved knee space. Getting in and out is not an issue for me but it is fair to say the RV's are not easy to enter or exit unless you are familiar with them. Most important though is to be comfortable when you are in the seat.

Note also that the center console is the same width as the channel that covers the flap actuators between the seats so it fits easily between standard seats or (in my case) the Classic Aero aviator seats. This width continues all the way through to the front of the console which terminates at the front end of the fuel pump cover (for those who have got a fuel pump!). The top cover which accommodates the fuel selector and keyswitch spreads outwards from the horizontal line upwards to meet the panel extension on the underside. It is fixed to the panel extension for stability. This maximizes the available knee space on each side and you can still extend your legs into the space between the pedals in front of the console when you want to stretch out.

Best way to know what will work for you (not your guest!) is to make some templates from fiber board or cardboard and install them in place so you can get a feel for the space relevant to your personal requirements.

I plan to do LONG trips (There is a lot of open desert in Australia and I have converted the outboard leading edges to become LR fuel tanks) and will have over 8 hours endurance - believe me when I say I want to make sure I will be comfortable.....


HOW DID I MAKE IT:
I started by making templates for the sides out of cardboard initially then MDF (medium density fiber board - not sure what you guys call it over there but it is similar to masonite). This is a trial and error process until you get the shape right. Get the profile right with cardboard pieces stuck together with tape and then when it is reasonably good trace it on to 3mm fiber board. That becomes your good template. Trim and sand it until its fits neatly. I then purchased some standard aluminium (aluminum in your neck of the woods) sheet ($60 got me enough to make two in case i stuffed the first one up!) and traced the final template on to that. Cut with high speed cutter. Fold up some channel to the same width as the channel which sits between the seats and cover the flap actuator. This gets riveted between the side panels when everything is done to provide structural integrity. I purchased a standard RV-8 quadrant from VANS ($180) which fits comfortably (yes - a bit lucky) between the side panels allowing the thread for the friction lock to extend out through the side panel - see photo. You will have to make up some packers etc but all pretty common sense stuff. The friction lock is then fitted on the outside of the side panel for easy access - works great. I have also fitted an ANDAIR fuel selector (expensive but definitely worth it - $300 to $450 depending on spec and accessories). You will need to order it with a 6 inch extension and a single uni-joint. The fuel valve is located in the standard vans position to achieve gravity feed - the extension arm goes up vertically and deviates through a suitable fixed angle via the uni-joint up to the back of the selector unit - very simple.
Ally angles at the bottom of the console are drilled off to match the anchor nuts in the floor so it is fixed in place with the floor panels for easy removal.

MAINTENANCE AND UNDER PANEL ACCESS:
This is the clever bit. The mini-panel as I call it (triangular piece on top of console which leads up to the bottom of the panel) is fixed by six screws/anchor nuts. Two to the underside of the panel extension and four to the main center console unit. Undo the screws and it simply lifts out and up wards (the Andair extension arm is machine sleeved - so it "slots" into place - brilliant). I will put a loop of extra wire in the leads to the key switch for this purpose. Once the mini-panel is removed four screws on either side of the top plate of the center console can be removed allowing the quadrant to be lifted upwards and inspected. It can also easily be moved out of the way for easy removal of the main center console (screwed in place with floor panels) to make "climbing in upside down" for maintenance a lot easier. You can easily remove it all in under 10 mins for this purpose.

If anyone wants to see more photos - shoot me an email.

Cheers,

JON

Jon,

That is some very nice work! I'm sure the rest of the plane will be first rate!

With 170 hours in my -9 in the first year I have learned a few things that I thought I might pass along.

Access under the instrument panel with the sub-panel in place isn't that bad. Yes, it is tight but you can work with it in place.

The DJM throttle quadrant is first rate and you will REALLY like flying with it! Same goes for the Andair fuel valve. Both are good products.

Here is the big one; switches on the sub-panel are a problem for me. I used toggle switch-breakers and while they work great, climbing in with long pants on can be a problem. It turns out you and your passenger have to be very careful not to snag the switches with your pant legs. This is true, even with the recesseded sub-panel. If you can do it, I HIGHLY recommend using rocker type switches and switch-breakers. Yes they cost more but they look cool and eliminate this minor problem. Just my $.02.

Here's my center console

I fly a 6A and wanted the center console. I personally haven't had issues with space or width but it is a little tight for very large people. I am 5'9", 175lbs., and it works fine for me. I fly 90% of my cross countries alone though for the breakfast runs I almost always have a passenger.

I agree with Bill Repucci who commented about the toggle switches along the bottom of the panel. I continually get my pant cuffs caught on the switches so I would opt for rocker style also. Perhaps I'll do that over one day.

I purchased this console from Aircraft Extras, designed and manufactured by Bryan Fillman.

I kept the Van's fuel valve but had to design the articulated extension for the fuel lever.

VERY NICE! I am so far from this point in the build, but love the design. By the time I get ready to build something like this, you will have several hundred hours on it, and can give me the skinny on what you like/dislike about it! Thanks for the inspiration!

Here's mine

This is the center console and arm rest for my RV-7A. I wanted a center arm rest, but it could not come too far forward because I have the manual aileron trim. I was going to make the arm rest out of aluminum, but, I could not figure out how I was going to get nice rounded corners at the front of the arm rest. The logical solution was to do it in fiberglass. Also, have you checked the price of aluminum lately?

After the arm rest was done, I decided to build a fiberglass center console. I need a fuel return for my rotary, and I did not want to spend $200 for an Andair dual valve. The manual elevator trim, makes it hard to put the two fuel valves within reach without adding a center console. The back cover for the center console allows me to hide the cable loop.

Tracy.

Nice work, guys. Keith - how did you do the leather covering with the nice stitched welt? Done professionally? Tracy - what did you do to make an initial blank (or what technique did you do to make the fiberglass parts if no blank and mold)?

ours is work in progress, almost finished.
armrest made out of the temporary stabilizer bar that held the qb fuse together.

modded a DJM throttle quadrant to be used for throttle and prop.
mixture will be a vernier in the big hole on the right side in the console.
left holes are parking brake and oil cooler shutter.
fuel selector and touchpad are placed in the center.

rgds bernie

Carl,

I made blocks from 3/4" pieces of blue foam glued together. Then, I shaped the blue foam blocks and fit them in place. Finally, I layed fiberglass over the blue foam shapes. Not really the right way to do it, but it works.

BTW, I'll probably do all three pieces over again. I think I want the arm rest to be a little longer (I'll have to do something to bring the aileron trim to the top of the arm rest), and I probably want a map box or coke holder inside. Also, I need to raise the tunnel if I am going to put two fuel pumps inside.

Tracy.

i have a center console in the -7.

I wouldn't ever do that again.

Its just way to tight to lay under the panel and get to anything.

As someone said --brakes --- they are nearly impossible to repair/maintain

I started that way, and then chaged my mind.........

Jon Clements said:

I posted some progress shots of my 7 on the forums a couple of weeks ago and I have had a fair bit of interest in my center console / throttle quadrant set-up so I figured I would start a new thread on the subject....

Cheers,

JON.

Click to expand...

JON............

The seats are 16" wide, and I wear W33 L32 LEVIS non shrink. I am 173# and I overlap the 16" seat. There is 3"+ between the seats. My point is, you can't have any part hang over the sides. In your pictures above, you can see where the problems are. Not only will your passenger bang the stick now and then, but their leg will conflict with the controls.

In the lower pictures,(the throttle handle is not installed) you can see what I did to solve that problem. The throttle and prop was trimmed at the bottom. The mixture and prop was trimmed at the top. In the side view you can see where the orig. holes were. Orig. is the lower ones. The unit comes with all three holes in line. The throttle must be drilled just above (or under) the others to avoid a conflict with each other.

For the friction knob......... Remove it. It is in the way. In the place of the knob, just use a nylock nut. SET IT AND FORGET IT.

In the center picture you can see what I did to hold the cable liner. With this, you make adjustments right at that location. It uses 3 nuts

This is just another item that is in the box of STUFF TO SELL because I changed my mind....... It gets expensive..... I currently fly a very lite 6A 320 fp. And am building another 6A 360 and it will be fp and KISS all the way and be lite...lite......lite..... But you see that's what I WANT.

As far as starting......... With your right hand on the throttle, you are then going to reach over with your left hand to work the key switch.. can you do that?

Center Console in RV-6A

I put built a center console out of aluminum to house many things and place controls in the location I wanted them (manual pitch trim, fuel pump, primer solenoid, fuel pump switch, primer switch, two fuel valves, four fuel filters, all interconnecting fuel lines, all wiring and coaxes routing aft of the spar and "cigarette lighter" power outlet). Access has not been a problem. lateral movement of legs toward the center of the plane is restricted but these all look OK. I actually rebuilt my console because the original was too wide and restrictive. It is definitely something you want to keep narrow. I had to rotate my fuel valves 45 degrees and reindex the knobs to accomodate the narrower console.

Bob Axsom

Great job - quick question....

Jon,

This looks great. Is there any concern about bumping the throttle with your elbow when you switch tanks?

Also - does center armrest double as a sectional box.

Kevin

Stitching...

Carl:

The stitching was professionally done by Flightline Interiors. It looks like leather but it is actually a vinyl. I have been quite happy with it. I had several colors to choose from. The gray I chose is a very close match for the existing colors. When I redo the interior, who knows if I'll change it? Flightline's work is included in the purchase price.

N941WR said:

Here is the big one; switches on the sub-panel are a problem for me. I used toggle switch-breakers and while they work great, climbing in with long pants on can be a problem. It turns out you and your passenger have to be very careful not to snag the switches with your pant legs. This is true, even with the recesseded sub-panel. If you can do it, I HIGHLY recommend using rocker type switches and switch-breakers. Yes they cost more but they look cool and eliminate this minor problem. Just my $.02.

Click to expand...

Hi Bill -

I have previously flown in Peter James RV-7 (Riveting Experience aka Riv-Ex) and he has a centre console made from glass. He addressed the same issue by installing switch guards on either side of the toggle switches (small aluminium "d"shaped loops which protect the switch). I will be doing the same or alternatively installing rocker switches.

The issue in that case was relevant to the centre console as well.

In regards to my sub-panel I am installing the EXP-BUS which has rocker switches so hopefully this won't be too big an issue.




Your comment is an important consideration so I may move the proposed toggle switches on the center console further inboard as well.

Thanks/regards,

JON.

or make it easy to remove..

caryr said:

i have a center console in the -7.

I wouldn't ever do that again.

Its just way to tight to lay under the panel and get to anything.

As someone said --brakes --- they are nearly impossible to repair/maintain

Click to expand...

This is a good reason to design the console as a modular system for easy removal......

kbonline1968 said:

Jon,

This looks great. Is there any concern about bumping the throttle with your elbow when you switch tanks?

Also - does center armrest double as a sectional box.

Kevin

Click to expand...

Hi Kevin -

Yes - the center console provides a LARGE map box under the arm rest. The arm rest lifts up with a hinge point at the rear.

Throttle is not in the way for changing fuel because the selector is relatively elevated in front of the throttle arm. I don't see any issues in this respect. The Andair has a very positive action yet is easy to turn and you have to lift the button on the selector arm to turn it off so it can't be "bumped" off.

Regards

JON

Gasman has identified some important points for consideration...

gasman said:

JON............

The seats are 16" wide, and I wear W33 L32 LEVIS non shrink. I am 173# and I overlap the 16" seat. There is 3"+ between the seats. My point is, you can't have any part hang over the sides. In your pictures above, you can see where the problems are. Not only will your passenger bang the stick now and then, but their leg will conflict with the controls.

In the lower pictures,(the throttle handle is not installed) you can see what I did to solve that problem. The throttle and prop was trimmed at the bottom. The mixture and prop was trimmed at the top. In the side view you can see where the orig. holes were. Orig. is the lower ones. The unit comes with all three holes in line. The throttle must be drilled just above (or under) the others to avoid a conflict with each other.

For the friction knob......... Remove it. It is in the way. In the place of the knob, just use a nylock nut. SET IT AND FORGET IT.

In the center picture you can see what I did to hold the cable liner. With this, you make adjustments right at that location. It uses 3 nuts

This is just another item that is in the box of STUFF TO SELL because I changed my mind....... It gets expensive..... I currently fly a very lite 6A 320 fp. And am building another 6A 360 and it will be fp and KISS all the way and be lite...lite......lite..... But you see that's what I WANT.

As far as starting......... With your right hand on the throttle, you are then going to reach over with your left hand to work the key switch.. can you do that?

Click to expand...

Hi Gasman -

The design of the top mini-panel (triangular) section is critical to achieve good knee clearance. I tried various options and this set-up works really well. It is critical to fold the sides of the triangular section well back underneath themselves to realign with the main console inboard. This allow you to spread your knees under the return because it is elevated well above the main console profile. These images should help make sense of this approach...







You are right about the overhangs of the Throttle Handle, Mixture and Pitch controls. I had planned to shorten them in the same way that you have so that they don't get in the way - it's just a job that will follow further down the track. This is important because they will be in the way otherwise.

Interestingly my holes (for cable connections) in my throttle quadrant were already offset so I don't need to re-drill them as in your case....obviously they can't be aligned or the cables connections will clash due to the limited clearance between the actuating arms.

In regards to the friction knob - dimensionally it was basically luck but it fits so neatly that it is essentially out of the way. I would prefer to be able to adjust the friction in flight which is possible the way I have set it up.

An important consideration in relation to understanding my panel layout and console set-up is that I will be flying PIC from the right seat. I'll post a panel shot in a couple of weeks which will make things clearer however in a nutshell my panel is essentially symmetrical however priority analogue instruments for aerobatics are located on the RHS - these being back-up ASI, VSI and G-meter. The GRT dual screens are great for this purpose because you can show whatever page you want on either screen. AVMAP (VFR GPS) is in the center (as are comms, xponder, intercom panel) and the GNS 430W is to be located on the LHS below the GRT. If I ever sell the plane it makes the set-up suitable for PIC on either the left or right side. In reality I will probably fly it from both sides but I prefer to fly aeros with my right hand on stick (I am a glider pilot also...).

To address the start switch issue I am installing a starter button on both infinity stick grips (with a separate isolation switch on panel) so you don't have reach the key switch over the other hand whilst grasping the stick between your knees.

Good feedback Gasman - important considerations for anyone who is considering heading down this path.....

Thanks

JON.

Different approach

Hi RVators,

During the process we shifted to a design which has no connection with the panel, mostly to create room for legs and maintenance. This works very well and is still quite sexyyyyyyyy It has an armrest with a map box and a verrry nice throttle cover plate.
You can see the full design&build process on http://websites.expercraft.com/PHVII/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=11824 and beyond.
If anyone needs the cad files, they are available (for free) in Solidworks and in Acad.

Here's mine



I've been doing some work under the panel, and it's not too bad. With the seats removed, I can wriggle my way between the stick and the center console and do what I need to...but I'm thin.

I know this doesn't meet some people definition of a center console, lacking throttle quadrant, but I like the push/pull power knobs.

here's mine

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think maintenance

Bob Axsom said:

It is definitely something you want to keep narrow.
Bob Axsom

Click to expand...

...or eliminate altogther, or at a minimum, make them very easy to remove and get them out of the way. I don't have a center console in my -6, and I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had to lay across the seats to work on stuff underneath the panel. Having a center console in the way would make things a major pain.

The #1 design priority I've had building my rocket is to make it easy to work on.

Those are some beautiful consoles, though.

my custom job

My custom centre console and homemade modular panel frame.

Very nice

Did you make that your self? What did you use for a mold? Nice work!

Panel Update

Have made some minor mods to the centre console since the last pics - I moved the Ignition Key Switch to the bottom LHS of the panel (and committed to installing starter switches with isolator to the Grips). This allowed space for the Ray Allen Trim indicators to be located mid upper in the centre console. Essentially the Centre Console now provides all the fuel management (switches/indictors/selector) for the four tanks with the addition of the trim indicators.

Quadrant and cables have been fitted but now removed - centre console is about to go in for powder coating (matt black).

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Nice cockpit Jon C

You have choosen the fuelselektor with 4 inlets. 2 aux tanks? Witch tanks are you using an how big are they? Pictures?
Thanks
OlaM
Norway

EFIS panel cutouts on tip ups

Jon: I was wondering how you did the structural work on your panel to install the EFIS units. I have RV7a with a tip up and am wondering how to get around the forward fuselage ribs that attach to the instrument panel where your EFIS units are located. If you have some pictures showing how you did it I would appreciate if you could E-Mail them to me.
Thanks,
Ken Eisemann [email protected]

rvnor said:

You have choosen the fuelselektor with 4 inlets. 2 aux tanks? Witch tanks are you using an how big are they? Pictures?
Thanks
OlaM
Norway

Click to expand...

Hi Olam -

Send me an email for more info. I converted the outboard leading edges to Long Range Tanks with assistance from an Aviation Maintenance Engineer. An extra 70L each side...a lot of work but probably the best solution in consideration of engineering and quantity issues...

cheers

JON

pile-it said:

Jon: I was wondering how you did the structural work on your panel to install the EFIS units. I have RV7a with a tip up and am wondering how to get around the forward fuselage ribs that attach to the instrument panel where your EFIS units are located. If you have some pictures showing how you did it I would appreciate if you could E-Mail them to me.
Thanks,
Ken Eisemann [email protected]

Click to expand...

Hi Ken -

Shoot me an email to my office address [email protected] as a reminder (I am away from my office at the moment). I'll take some more shots to show you my approach. Pretty simple modification.

Regards

JON

Yes I agree - my entire concole is fwd of the seats

rocketbob said:

...or eliminate altogther, or at a minimum, make them very easy to remove and get them out of the way. I don't have a center console in my -6, and I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had to lay across the seats to work on stuff underneath the panel. Having a center console in the way would make things a major pain.

The #1 design priority I've had building my rocket is to make it easy to work on.

Those are some beautiful consoles, though.

Click to expand...

I have worked on the instrument panel a lot in the past seven years and my access is always to fall in on my back across the two seats. Any obstruction there is going to make work behind the panel very much more difficult. My entire center console is forward of the spar and seats, and below the level of the seats until it passes the plane of the instrument panel. The angled panel is positioned to conform to the natural position of the curved back manual pitch trim cable. The width of the original console was to accomodate the basic fuel selector valves with two 90 deg. fittings (one on each side). It was too restrictive on the inboard leg and I had to rotate the valves and reindex the handles to enable making it narrower. The plate with the engine controls originally had the carb heat in there as well and the width of that little sub panel made it very uncomfortable for my 99.9% of the time passemger so I moved the carb heat control up into the panel (1st photo), moved the remaining three controls as close together as practical and reduced its width. I later found I could squeeze the carb heat into the sub panel between the prop and mixture controls (2nd photo) after one mod. access requirement forced me to disconnect the carb heat cable and pull it back through the firewall. That experience forced me to see the error of my ways. The small sub panel is removable with three screws and this is a necessity for some of the behind the panel work I've done. Not directly related but another free piece of information, the tiney little PPT switches didn't hold up over time and I replaced them with more substantial switches.





Bob Axsom