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  #31  
Old 04-17-2007, 08:14 AM
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fodrv7 fodrv7 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VH-VRN
Is the RV8 any different to other RV tailwheelers when it comes to landing?
How about some specifics.

Pete.
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  #32  
Old 04-17-2007, 08:49 AM
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Sounds like the answer is "YES" the -8 is different than the other RVs when it comes to landing. Or, the answer could be "NO". I have never flown one but I can imagine that the same principles of tailwheel landings apply.
In learning to properly land my -9, I just applied what I learned during TW instruction in a Citabria. That is, don't flare until you are really close to the runway then hold it off and position for either a wheel landing or 3 pointer.
Usually, I land in a level flight attitude but lately I have been applying the tail low wheel landing practice and have found it to be very comfortable.
BTW, my first flight was with the pitot cover on! Fortunately, my GPS provided some ground speed reference but it still took 3 attempts to get to the right speed on final. You should see the tape!
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  #33  
Old 04-17-2007, 09:28 AM
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flyeyes flyeyes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VH-VRN
Is the RV8 any different to other RV tailwheelers when it comes to landing?
Yes and no.

The only difference in the -8 is the stiffness of the landing gear.

The round gear legs on the other models are much "softer" and more forgiving of a little extra vertical rate at the touchdown. In this way they are more like the cubs and champs that many of us transition in.

None of the RVs have much damping like the oleo struts on a champ or a T6.

The RV-8 has very stiff, springy flat steel gear legs, like any number of tailwheel Cessnas. IMHO it touches down exactly like a Cessna 120/140 when wheel landed. The Cessna 3-points better because it sits at a higher angle on the ground.

In every other possible way, the RV-8 is utterly different from the Cessna, but if you can smoothly wheel land the Cessna, you'll have no trouble with the RV-8. The RV has mush greater controla authority, more power, etc.

I find the RV-8 very satisfying to land. It can be consistently landed very smoothly and precisely, it just takes a little more attention than its brethren.

As an RV-8 owner, I find RV-6s harder to land, because the gear feel slightly "wiggly" to me.
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  #34  
Old 04-17-2007, 09:32 AM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyeyes
Yes and no.

The only difference in the -8 is the stiffness of the landing gear.

The round gear legs on the other models are much "softer" and more forgiving of a little extra vertical rate at the touchdown. In this way they are more like the cubs and champs that many of us transition in.

None of the RVs have much damping like the oleo struts on a champ or a T6.

The RV-8 has very stiff, springy flat steel gear legs, like any number of tailwheel Cessnas. IMHO it touches down exactly like a Cessna 120/140 when wheel landed. The Cessna 3-points better because it sits at a higher angle on the ground.

In every other possible way, the RV-8 is utterly different from the Cessna, but if you can smoothly wheel land the Cessna, you'll have no trouble with the RV-8. The RV has mush greater controla authority, more power, etc.

I find the RV-8 very satisfying to land. It can be consistently landed very smoothly and precisely, it just takes a little more attention than its brethren.

As an RV-8 owner, I find RV-6s harder to land, because the gear feel slightly "wiggly" to me.
Second this. -8 has a stiffer "system", making the responses a little faster.

With the more springy gear of the -8, the bounced landing will require some positive corrective action. Add power, well timed the elevator corrective input, etc. For the new -8 pilot, the 3-pt landings would be a good start. Moving to wheel landings, you either need to be able to grease it on or be very well tuned at adding elevator input to plant the mains and stop any bounce/oscillation. Otherwise, you're going to be going for a big bouncy ride - and hopefully the front stays in the front.

I have found that once you tune your brain to providing the right input to plant the mains when wheel landing, it's no problem. Just takes a little practice.

Never flown a -120 or -140, but if you can make a nice wheel landing in a -170, a -8 would be a piece of cake. Sorry - already mentioned, but worth repeating.

Last edited by Low Pass : 04-17-2007 at 09:49 AM.
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  #35  
Old 04-17-2007, 11:49 AM
chappel chappel is offline
 
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Location: Resident of Perham, MN; contract in Terre Haute, IN - commute in the RV
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Default wheel landings for me

I've got about 400 hours in my -8, (O-360 & cs prop) and only do wheel landings. I've found that a little steeper than normal descent angle at about 80-85 (with full flaps) works well. You don't get much of a window to level off in ground effect, but the airspeed drops nicely, and a tail-high attitudes 'feels right' and the controls remain crisp. It works well in cross-winds, and I generally fly on pretty small paved strips (4-5000') and don't have any problems - I rarely use the brakes. I have done high-speed no-flap landings (touch-and-goes following practice 120kn ILS approaches) and they work well enough on a really long runway - just fly it on - but I don't think it does much for the longevity of the tires. I've also done 3-pointers, but they are really tough. I recall only one that I've greased on; it's definately something I need to do some more practice on. I've been told using ballast will help, but I don't normally (I'm about 235lb on my own).

I haven't flown enough other tail-wheels to be able to do comparisons.

Chris Happel
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  #36  
Old 04-18-2007, 02:56 AM
Skyhi Skyhi is offline
 
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Default Black and White ?

Danny, It is interesting that very few independent flight reviews that one reads in the aviation press "tell it like it is". Most of them are positive about the aircraft under test, and talking to an editor of one of the leading aviation publications, this has more than a little to do with advertising revenue. Likewise many forums of builders are extremely "pro" their own aircraft type because they have a lot invested and like positive reinforcement from their peers.

In my opinion the 8 fly's well from A2B, it rolls well but is heavy in pitch (control harmony is not great). It lands OK solo with weight in the back & doesn't so well without, the pilot ergonomics are poor and so on.....

Like any aircraft it has its good and bad points, I just prefer to tell it as it is, and I don't go along with the myth that the RV8 is the best plane ever designed. I think that builders who are likely to spend a few years of their lives bashing rivets should have the benefit of inside knowledge from all perspectives.

As regards the 8's "communications" - Yes, it is loud and clear, and cant be faulted for that, it just lacks subtlety, and that is a question of experience and feel.

Talking to open minded RV8 owners, one soon gets a clear picture of all the points (good and bad) involved in flying an 8, and I think that is the great benefit of a forum like this.

Rgds, Nic



Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny King
Well said Robby,

I don't believe Nic likes the RV-8, and I have never heard him say anything good about the aircraft. That's fine. Everyone's opinion is respected here. I can't speak for Nic's 8 but the Doll communicates just fine. The pilot has to be listening I guess.

N80434 does not have any kind of electronic stall warning. i.e. horns, bells, lights, or even AOA, but she is so good about communicating with me, non of those things are needed. The much talked about tail shake is there just before stall, and I can fly her right on the edge of it with no fear of departure.

With experience, even the airspeed indicator could be inop, and safe approaches and landings could be made. One day I landed with no A/S indication because of a poor preflight. I failed to remove the pitot cover, and was climbing out before I figured it out. It was really no big deal. I flew the aircraft by feel, and made a normal landing.
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  #37  
Old 04-18-2007, 06:43 AM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhi
..........Likewise many forums of builders are extremely "pro" their own aircraft type because they have a lot invested and like positive reinforcement from their peers.

In my opinion the 8 fly's well from A2B, it rolls well but is heavy in pitch (control harmony is not great). It lands OK solo with weight in the back & doesn't so well without, the pilot ergonomics are poor and so on.....

Like any aircraft it has its good and bad points, I just prefer to tell it as it is, and I don't go along with the myth that the RV8 is the best plane ever designed. I think that builders who are likely to spend a few years of their lives bashing rivets should have the benefit of inside knowledge from all perspectives.

As regards the 8's "communications" - Yes, it is loud and clear, and cant be faulted for that, it just lacks subtlety, and that is a question of experience and feel.

Talking to open minded RV8 owners, one soon gets a clear picture of all the points (good and bad) involved in flying an 8, and I think that is the great benefit of a forum like this.

Rgds, Nic
Nic -

I'm trying hard to temper my pride of ownership, but do wonder if your comments about the heaviness comes from the fact that you flew with extreme fwd cg. Solo, with fwd cg, yes - it's heavy. With someone in the back seat of any reasonable size, there's nothing heavy whatsoever about the pitch control. As a matter of fact, with a 200-lb person back there it's almost too light in pitch. Which points out the fact that, for a two-seat tandem sport plane, it compromises very well between the various flying missions. Better than anything out there I'm aware of (under $500,000).

If the heavy pitch is a problem, fly with ballast strapped in the back.

Best plane ever built?! Hardly. A plane that can be had for $50-100,000, operated for $50-100/hr, does very reasonable light acro, has predictable & consistent stall/snap/spin characteristics, carries a reasonable load, carries two people, conventional construction, robust (kit) factory supported design - it's top 5, no doubt.

2 very biased cents

Last edited by Low Pass : 04-18-2007 at 06:45 AM.
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  #38  
Old 06-17-2007, 08:56 PM
steveKs. steveKs. is offline
 
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Location: Fowler, Kansas
Posts: 162
Default Thanks for the input

Being new to the RV8 (one month and 15 hours) I appreciate all the landing hints.
I previously owned a RV6a (400 hours) and a Supercub (450 hours) and noticed most of all, the pitch heaviness compared to the 6a when solo.

Compared to the Supercub the rudders in the 8 are much more responsive, with just a touch needed for alignment compared to more of a stab with the Cub. Also the RV6a had a o320 fixed and the 200 horse CS RV8 wants a little more right foot on launch.

The previous owner of the RV8 liked his tailwheel chains loose so to me the rudders felt tight on the mains and loose when the tail came down. I replaced the chains with the silver bullet link and like the results. This RV still commands some attention on rollout mostly just as the tail loses control authority.

I also think the RV8 communicates very well, I tried three pointing on a short field technique and at 15 feet over the threshold the tail buffet recommended I add a touch of power and let off the back pressure.

Thanks again for all the recommendations for the RV8, it's a great airplane! This site is a great resource!

steve
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  #39  
Old 08-16-2013, 03:02 PM
colojo colojo is offline
 
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I'm three solos and three horrific landings into my fledgling RV-8 career, so I took a step back after today's inglorious session to read this old thread. Definitely some useful information here, and everything bad that has been described has happened to me! Fortunately, no damage done except to my pride.

I've tried both wheel and three-point landings. None were good, but the three-pointers were definitely the worst. I'm going to stick with wheel landings for now.

The airplane is so new to me (I didn't build it) that I can't speak with authority about how heavy or light it feels to me in pitch. Frankly, it feels light as a feather in all dimensions compared to my Mooney. I got transition training in an RV-7, and so far my feeling is that the RV-8 feels much more unstable in the flare and on the rollout. I'm guessing the differences in landing gear, tailwheel and payload (there were two of us in the 7) have a lot to do with it.

Anyway, here's my question: I weigh 215lb. and always fly solo. I have a 180hp Lycoming and a Hartzel CS prop. Should I use secured ballast in the baggage compartment? If so, how much?

Thank you.
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Last edited by colojo : 08-16-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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  #40  
Old 08-16-2013, 04:02 PM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colojo View Post
I'm three solos and three horrific landings into my fledgling RV-8 career, so I took a step back after today's inglorious session to read this old thread. Definitely some useful information here, and everything bad that has been described has happened to me! Fortunately, no damage done except to my pride.

I've tried both wheel and three-pointer landings. None were good, but the three-pointers were definitely the worst. I'm going to stick with wheel landings for now.

The airplane is so new to me (I didn't build it) that I can't speak with authority about how heavy or light it feels to me in pitch. Frankly, it feels light as a feather in all dimensions compared to my Mooney. I got transition training in an RV-7, and so far my feeling is that the RV-8 feels much more unstable in the flare and on the rollout. I'm guessing the differences in landing gear, tailwheel and payload (there were two of us in the 7) have a lot to do with it.

Anyway, here's my question: I weigh 215lb. and always fly solo. I have a 180hp Lycoming and a Hartzel CS prop. Should I use secured ballast in the baggage compartment? If so, how much?

Thank you.
Don't know anything about adding ballast but will volunteer this comment regarding your disappointment.

I assume your landings have been bounces.

Perhaps what is going on is the CS prop is slowing the airplane too quickly making it difficult to control the final sink and touch down. I had the same problem trying to teach myself to land the 7 with a CS prop and the Subby engine. The prop was like a speed brake. I never had a chance to arrest the sink rate because the thing was slowing so quickly.

Next time, try adding just a smidgen of power as you go into the flare to better control the final sink and find the runway. It might make a difference.

PS I was so frustrated with the 7, i converted it to a 7A. Should have had a bit more instruction to figure out what was going on.
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