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  #1  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:26 PM
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NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
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Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 55
Default RV Question: A Compiled List

RV Questions: A Compiled List (Unabridged)

Good afternoon VAF,

As a long time reader (and less frequent author), I have learned a great deal about the RV community, the aircraft, and a little about what I would like my mission to entail in the future years. I have had the great opportunity to fly in a couple RV's - including obtaining my TW endorsement in one. I have visited a couple build projects and got my hands dirty, too. There really is no excuse for me waiting to pull the trigger, other than my busy work life for the next couple years. I'm pushing 30, so its nearly time I got started.

I am a longtime fan of the RV-7/8, but have been smitten with the RV-14 since the first pictures were released a while back. More on the -14 later...

I would like to post a list of questions that have been resurfacing in my recent discussions and research. I have found many answers through the search function on VAF, so I apologize for any repeats and I will try to define my questions with previously read content in mind.

Here we go- most questions will be RV in general, or geared toward an RV-14 build.

1. Water Intrusion. The RV-14 is offered in Tip-Up only, I have flown RV's of both canopy categories and I prefer the look of the Slider (), but the tip up will be great in a -14. Regarding water intrusion, should I worry about leaving a tip-up on the flight line for a few days in the rain? (XC, camping, etc).
With water intrusion in mind, are there any other hot spots that warrant attention in an RV? Is it common to seal the empennage/wing roots to prevent any possibility of intrusion?

2. Ejection Handles. I've seen a few -14s with AND without canopy release handles on the panel. I understand the purpose, but are the one without a panel mounted handle simply relocated, or omitted?

3. Flap operation. Do most builders elect to go with a momentary contact switch for flaps that select a predetermined (programmed) flap position? Or is a "push and hold" to select position more common? I can see benefits to both (capability/simplicity), but would be interested to hear some praise toward the preset flap position options. Especially if they're stick mounted!

4. Quick one- I've seen 'ALT Air' source knobs in fuel injected aircraft, what is the purpose or function of that? (I admit this one makes me feel a little dumb)...

5. Caution...Not to start a war... and I have read a LOT on this one... When it comes to primer, has anyone actually experienced surface corrosion on either primed or non-primed RV's? I know theres a good deal of older RVs out there, Im just curious if anyone has seen it. I know theres a bajillion factors that can determine a corrosive timeline on metal aircraft... but I would be interested to hear corrosion stories and how they were tackled. I personally feel like I would build with a mixed method - prime some areas with the crazy "5 step process", and other areas might get a less "permanent" treatment. I've seen Van's test sheet and its impressive what their wash primer has prevented over the years. Enough on primer...

6. Engine options! I've read that the factory -14 has an IO-360 and the A model has the -390. Again, I've flown behind both engines (I got lucky), but other than the fact that Vans prefers we stick to their setup, which engine are most builders going with? I feel like the -390 is a great choice, but the 360 angle valve is a phenomenal engine with decades of history, also. Climb could be better with the extra HP, but I feel both could most likely achieve very similar cruise performance. If this is an airplane I would plan to keep forever, I would pick the 390. If cost becomes a factor, I will just save a little longer. Is there anything else I should consider between the 360/390? Part availability should continue to improve as the engine becomes a little more popular in the future.

7. Cross Country Performance. I've read the -14 wing can perform a little more like a -10 at altitude, rather than closer to the -7. Im curious to read more about higher altitude cruising in the RV-14 as more examples start flying. A great deal of my mission will be taking advantage of the excellent (from what I hear) XC performance of the RV-14. All RV's are great, I know, but too many -14 pilots have praised the -14 comfort in XC for me to NOT take notice... Sorry -7!
Leisure aerobatics are definitely still on the agenda, so theres no -10 in my future! Sorry -10!
So when it comes to performance, it sounds like the -14 is a true 170KT RV on XC flights. Sounds like it'll burn a touch more fuel, is that because of the increased drag when compared to a -7? Again, a 360/390 should 'theoretically' be able to achieve very similar fuel flows when flown at commensurate power settings, but the increased airframe size should see a small TAS penalty. I'm always happy to hear what pilots are getting on XC trips in real world environments. (Carson numbers really get me going...) Great thing about RV's is you have a lot of power to pull back when you just want to show friends their house from a few thousand AGL

8. Last Question! IFR Platform Considerations. So everyone has their idea of what a "good" IFR platform is... I've had the great pleasure of flying 85 hours in a T-6B Texan II (the fast kind) and a lot of that was in simulated or actual IFR. There is definitely an art to flying hands-on while briefing approaches or STARs with the PAPER plates in my non flying hand. I never found any trouble being heavily tasked in the cockpit. That said, I will invest in a fancy autopilot for the RV and probably use electronic plates by the time Im actually flying. I don't plan to go sloshing through SIGMETS and/ or hurricane hunting, but I would like to stay sharp and fly IFR even when the conditions don't require it. I really enjoy instruments and I also like VFR. I'd like an RV that is capable and safe in both rules. SO... Is Van's still planning to offer any sort of quick panel/ wire harness options for Garmin/Dynon IFR setups? Whats the general recommendation when it comes to panel building. Is the quick option worth the larger investment? Or is the piecing and DIY options more common? I feel like Im more suited to wiring than riveting, so theres that. I like the looks of a few 14's I've seen with the full Garmin G3X/GTN IFR setup. Especially since you have ILS/LOC options built into the GTN. Yes, I would plan for a backup AHARS unit, like the G5 or Dynon equivalent. Redundancy is a discussion for when I get there too- theres definitely a happy medium that I will plan/build around.
On the IFR discussion, does anyone regularly fly (actual or simulated IFR...) LNAV or LPV approaches in their RV? If so, will a GTN (or Avidyne) display a CDI (for GPS/LOC/ILS/VOR) on the EFIS also? Seems like a silly question, but I've had a heck of a time trying to figure this one out. I would imagine the autopilot or human pilot would see a NAV style CDI.
Garmin offers an off-panel AOA display, but can this be configured IN to the G3x screen to reduce glare shield congestion?

Ok, well this about brings me up to date with questions. I greatly appreciate the time anyone will invest in reading my novel of a thread!
I currently live and work in Corpus Christi, TX... Theres not a lot of RVing going on down here that I have seen, but if anyone is building a -14 around here I would be more than happy to come give a hand!

Thank You All,
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:43 PM
OkieDave OkieDave is offline
 
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Location: Oklahoma
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No. 4 is in case the main air intake becomes iced over or otherwise obstructed. Typically, it's unfiltered, so it's best not to use it unless you need it (and to verify operation during runup).
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:09 PM
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NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
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Ah- that makes sense, thank you!
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:27 PM
KeithB KeithB is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Granbury, TX
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Quote:
1. Water Intrusion.
I have had the 14 outside at AirVenture last year (it rained), and outside in the rain in Idaho and Bahamas with not a drop of leaks. I do use a canopy cover (Bruce).

Quote:
2. Ejection Handles.
I chose to keep the mechanism for canopy removal (maintenance, painting, etc. - it has been off a half dozen times), but I did not want the handle on the dash, so I truncated it at the sub panel - screw to nut plate mount.

Quote:
3. Flap Operation.
I installed a Garmin GAD 27 which provides preset flap settings. I really like this feature.

Quote:
4. ALT AIR.
Alt Air is a bypass for intake air to the fuel servo - for use if the air filter were blocked by ice or a bird strike, hopefully keeping the spinny thing spinning.

Quote:
7. Cross country performance.
One plane’s performance - 10,500 ft., 170 kts TAS burning 8.1 gph heavy loading, 7.9 gph light loading.

Quote:
8.IFR panel considerations.
Just about everyone really likes the panel they picked - me too. Dual G3X Touch 10”, GTN 650 for IFR plus GMC 307 A/P head, and radios, audio panel, transponder, etc and a G5 to back it all up - all Garmin. You can get standard panels from Dynon/Advanced or custom ones from a Stein or Aerotronics - exactly the way you want it. In my case, a custom panel from Aerotronics would have added about $10k to the component costs, I chose to do it myself and it was one of the most rewarding parts of the project.

You can fly completely coupled ILS, RNAV, LPV, etc. including STARs and SIDS - and the CDI and glideslope display on the G3X, along with the magenta boxes/highway in the sky.

And, I LOVE my RV-14A. Hope this helps.
__________________
Keith Brown

RV-14A Builder - kit #136
N314KC - First flight Mar 8, 2017, >300 hrs
RV-6A sold
Sport Pilot (weight-shift control) - Airborne XT912
Dues paid 11/2017

Last edited by KeithB : 06-21-2018 at 11:40 AM.
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:19 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 5,264
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#8. As Keith said, everyone loves what they chose for a panel. I have a GRT HX as my primary. All the EFIS boxes will display cdi and gs info on their primary display. Being entrenched in the past, I prefer to display an electronic HSI, with ‘conventional’ cdi and gs bars, and an RMI pointer for cross fixes. While I regularly practice ils, vor, and gps approaches (it wasn’t too long ago that NDBs would be on the list too) I think that you’ll find that LPVs to 200’ agl decision heights will quickly become your approach of choice.
As to AOA, I much prefer audio warnings (slow beeps, progressing to a steady tone just before stall).
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:18 AM
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Veetail88 Veetail88 is offline
 
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Location: Hales Corners, WI
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Referencing the flap position question, I have my flap switch on the stick with a three position switch that is on/off/on(momentary). For lowering the flaps I just hold down for a 3 count for each position.(takes around 9 seconds for full travel). At full down I can hear the flap motor churning. I rigged a full up flap limit switch and at touchdown I just flick the switch up with my thumb and forget about it. Kills the lift and shuts off at full retraction. Works great, dirt simple and if I need to know the flap position, I just turn my head and look at the flaps. No position marks on them either. Just a glance tells me what I need to know. For a control board I use the one from Infinity. Bought it with the grips.
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N229Z - RV-8 - Flying - Livin' the dream!
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  #7  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:39 AM
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NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 55
Thumbs up Awesome!

What an awesome forum!

KeithB, BobTurner, and Veetail88 Thank You all very much for your quick and informative replies- I appreciate it and am for once wondering "What to ask next??"!

I have had a couple emails as well and I will be getting back to everyone very shortly - I'm currently trying to get out flying today around some questionable South Texas weather, but am looking forward to studying this forum even deeper in regards to EMP/Tailcone builds, since that will be my next step. Actually, Im hoping to attend a builder seminar/class or two this summer when I get some leave time.
I'm trying to push for Oshkosh, but its unlikely I will be free that week.

I also want to thank Andrew Kilroy for providing such an awesome and informative video log of his build. I am binging on that each evening
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:08 PM
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vlittle vlittle is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
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4) the simplest and most reliable flap positioning is an (on)-off-on switch (momentary in the down position). I'm not a fan of the flaps positioning systems unless they also dial in trim at the same time. Even then, they have some nasty failure scenarios.

I have an (on)-off-on switch in my rocket in parallel with a flaps/trim preset function of my own design. I only use two presets... on for takeoff/go-around and the other for landing. Everything in between is manual flaps and trim. Of course, the trim settings only work for solo operation in a tandem.... which is what I wanted for formation work.

V
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2018, 08:28 AM
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Jared_Solomon Jared_Solomon is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 85
Default Love my 14A

Quote:
1. Water Intrusion.
If you follow the plans for the 14 the tip-up does a pretty good job of keeping the water out. For my first 100hrs I had done a poor job applying the canopy seals and had some leaks when flying through rain. I re-did the seals and added some sealant in a few spots I neglected previously and now the canopy doesn't leak when flying in the rain. As far as parked in the rain, I use a canopy cover over it as extra insurance.

Quote:
2. Ejection Handles.
Excellent for maintenance, including the canopy seal re-do that I mentioned above. I put mine in the panel, per the plans. I figured better to leave my options for in-flight ejection available, in case I plan to wear a chute and more aggressive aerobatics. Other builders have come up with solutions to keep the handle behind the instrument panel.

Quote:
3. Flap operation.
I have a Garmin G3X Touch system with the GAD27. I use the momentary push button feature that deploys the flaps to my pre-set location. I really enjoy the convenience of the feature.

Quote:
4. Quick one- I've seen 'ALT Air' source knobs in fuel injected aircraft, what is the purpose or function of that? (I admit this one makes me feel a little dumb)...
In case the filtered intake gets clogged or iced. It's for emergency use only, and is not designed to be "re-settable" in flight like carb heat (doesn't get tested as part of your run-up).

5.
Quote:
Caution...Not to start a war... and I have read a LOT on this one... When it comes to primer, has anyone actually experienced surface corrosion on either primed or non-primed RV's? I know theres a good deal of older RVs out there, Im just curious if anyone has seen it. I know theres a bajillion factors that can determine a corrosive timeline on metal aircraft... but I would be interested to hear corrosion stories and how they were tackled. I personally feel like I would build with a mixed method - prime some areas with the crazy "5 step process", and other areas might get a less "permanent" treatment. I've seen Van's test sheet and its impressive what their wash primer has prevented over the years. Enough on primer...
The way the 14 plans are laid out it's very convenient to prime in batches (prime everything for each section all at once). If using the Wash Primer Van's uses (I did) it dries very quick. By the time you clean up and put the spray gear away your ready to assemble and rivet. I used rattle-can SEM EZ-Coat on small parts I may have forgotten to prime during batch priming. Priming added a negligible amount of time to the build. I think priming provides piece of mind and helps in the resale process. It's one of those things that's not practical to change once the plane is finished.

Quote:
6. Engine options!
In my opinion there's only one way to go here, IO-390. The performance has been excellent. Van's did an excellent job designing everything firewall forward for the IO-390. Everything fit's excellent.

Quote:
7. Cross Country Performance.
I do a lot of X-Country. The extra room in 14 the cockpit is much appreciated. Below are some numbers I got on some recent trips. I always cruise with the mixture around 50LOP. I'm also aiming for good economy as I'm flying long flight direct. I could go a bit faster with higher fuel burn. The numbers below represent operating for good economy and range.

Code:
ALT      OAT       TAS         GPH      %PWR        EGT
15K      28F       160kts       8.1       50         50LOP
10K      34F       170kts       9.5       62         50LOP
06K      56F       163kts       8.9       64         50LOP
Quote:
8. Last Question! IFR Platform Considerations.
I have Garmin G3X Touch W/ a GTN-625 (GPS-Only) and GMC-307. I fly LPV approaches regularly, both simulated and actual. The setup is excellent. I almost always fly AP coupled approaches unless I'm practicing for failure scenarios. The setup is awesome! The with a press of a button (TOGA) AP will climb and fly the missed approach procedure. The airframe has been very stable for IFR flying compared to how my 7A performed. It's still less stable then Cessna though. I consider an AP required equipment for any IFR flying I do.
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Jared Solomon
A&P, EAA Technical Counselor

Powder Springs, GA
2018 Dues Paid
RV-14A (N214WJ) - Flying since Sept 2017
RV-7A (N211WJ) Flying since 2009 (SOLD)
RV-7A (N132RD) bought flying 2014 (SOLD)

KPUJ (Silver Comet Field)
Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/jmsolomon2000

RV-14 Build Log: http://rv14.jaredsolomon.net

Last edited by Jared_Solomon : 06-22-2018 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Adjusted formatting
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2018, 02:52 PM
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NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
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Jared Solomon,

Thank you for the answers- very informative and helpful. This is the 3rd or 4th time Ive heard the -14 is designed to be prepped and assembled/built in a batch system. I think that will make the kit very builder friendly.

Having LPV approach capability will be excellent - I imagine with the growing number of GPS approaches, those will be a majority of what I will choose to fly. Having the GTN625/635/650 (or whatever is best) will have to be evaluated against the GPS only equipment once I am ready to pull the trigger on a panel/electrical/avionics setup. I do really like the simplicity of GPS only, but I’m so used to flying terrestrial that it will be a new thing to get used to.

Thanks!
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14
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