Is A/C Spruce selling bogus fittings?

RV4er · #1 02-26-2007, 06:59 PM

Here is the scoop. I ordered two AN822 fittings from A/C Spruce. When they arrived I noticed something very different then any AN or MS fitting I have seen before. The fittings had no markings of any kind on them. I went to my junk drawer and started looking through all the fittings I have and all of them are stamped with either AN or MS.

I called A/C Spruce to inquire about a certification tag for them. The lady was very kind and assured me that she would call me back the next day to let me know what she found out. A week later after she didn't call me back I called them back. A different gal this time. She informed me that they buy these fittings by the 1,000's and not to worry about it. They were fine. After explaining that these were going into my fuel system in the cockpit I explained the importance that these were the real thing. She informed me that they were not going to provide a certification tag to me for every time I had a question about their hardware. That is where the conversation ended.

Am I wrong here? This is the first time I have ever inquired about something I have bought from them. I am not 100% sure they are bogus but believe I have a right to ask for a cert tag if something is in question.

The photo shows a fitting I already had and the new one. What do you think?

Kyle Boatright · #2 02-26-2007, 07:11 PM

I wouldn't worry about it. The 14,000 rivets in my airplane didn't have stamps, and neither do maybe a third of the A/N fittings in my miscellaneous fitting pile (I just took a look).

But, in the end, you are the person who decides what goes into your airplane. If you insist on your fittings having stamps or a clear paperwork trail, you get to make that decision. I think you'll have a hard time finding a reasonably priced supplier who will provide a certification tag for every nut, bolt, and fitting, but I could be wrong. ;-)

Paul Eastham · #3 02-26-2007, 07:14 PM

I agree that that fitting looks quite different from every other AN fitting I've seen. I have no idea what that means, though.

JDAviator · #4 02-26-2007, 07:21 PM

When a suppler purchases hardware, fittings, etc. in quantity, the "lot" has certification paperwork with it. They should be tracking what "lots" they're selling from, and be willing to provide you a copy of the certification paperwork associated with that lot.

Does your invoice or packing list make a statement that the parts sent to you are not intended to be installed on a certified aircraft? Unless a supplier has made this disclaimer, then they can and should provide you some type of certification paper trail.

Just my .02.

GAHco · #5 02-26-2007, 07:24 PM

Aircraft Spruce sends customers to me, and us to them, and we have an appreciation for each other, but back to the fitting.

To be certified it needs to have "MS" on the flat side for that one "MS20822-6D"

The later spec (yup they are changing again) will require an "AS" on the flat.

Sometimes the marking does get missed in a large batch.

The finish looks more like a commercial anodize from an auto supply product line, BUT, I have not seen the papers that they received with the lot of parts that they bought, so I cant make a firm statement.

There are times when traceable packaging is nice, even to us experimental guys. With it they would be able to produce such paperwork.

They seem to be easy to work with, I would ask them if they would kindly exchange it for one with the required markings on it.

NYTOM · #6 02-26-2007, 08:02 PM

Hey Tim what kind of camera did you use for these pictures? There sharp as a tack and the color is extremely vivid. Really nice close-up.

terrykohler · #7 02-26-2007, 08:18 PM

"I wouldn't worry about it" and "you are the one who decides what goes into your aircraft".
When I buy aircraft fittings and fasteners, I want to be certain they are made to spec. This ensures than AN fittings are forged rather than cast (where porosity may be a problem) and fasteners such as spar bolts have proper heat treatment and strength. In the 1990s, congress passed a fastener quality and identification act. This was in large part the result of military aircraft experiencing structural failures that were tied to sub-standard fasteners. Today, structural fasteners must not only contain source and grade markings, but must be manufactured with material and manufacturing lot tracability. While end users (builders) are unlikely to have access to certifications (or be able to understand them), the distributors to companies such as AC Spruce must have these on file. Failure to do so can result in some substantial penalties to both the business and its principals.
As aircraft manufacturers, it's in our best interest to make every effort to be certain we're using proper AC hardware and materials.

tx_jayhawk · #8 02-26-2007, 08:28 PM

Tim,

Please keep us posted on what you find out. I just bought a lot of AN822s and AN823s, and they all look like yours (no AN or MS markings, shinier than normal, etc.)

Thanks,
Scott

svanarts · #9 02-26-2007, 10:11 PM

That second fitting looks like a cheap import to me. The "import" part doesn't bother me as much as the "looks cheap" part. I'm building an experimental airplane but the fuel system, engine, and structural members all get "real live" airplane parts. I'd get it exchanged.

Low Pass · #10 02-26-2007, 10:49 PM

Ask/look for a specific brand. I.e., Aeroquip.