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Latest chapter in my Garmin autopilot story

Dugaru

Well Known Member
It was kind of annoying when my brand new Garmin GSA28 pitch servo died not long after it was installed. It was more annoying to learn, from the distributor, that there had in fact been a "rash" of such failures.

To me, that qualified as "information that would have been nice to know before installing the servos."

In any event, I began waiting for the replacement pitch servo. Given the "rash" statement, I asked Garmin if they would also replace my roll servo. It was a consecutive serial number with the pitch servo, and it sounded like there was some sort of problem with the devices.

Garmin declined. I asked them, in a post here, how many servos had failed. Garmin said it was only a "low number." Garmin did not identify the number. For anyone interested in the exchange, it's here:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=148740

After someone in that thread suggested I contact Garmin offline, I did that. I was told the following:

"We have thousands of servos in the field, so if we put a percentage to servos in the field, to servo failures, it would probably be less than 1%.
Problem has been resolved on our end and I am confident this will not happen again."

So I got the pitch servo replaced, and left the roll servo as is.

Well, apparently I was lucky enough to hit a 1 in 100 chance two times in a row. Despite Garmin's confidence, today my roll servo died. Same error message, same apparent fault.

Note that I am not the only person that has had both Garmin servos die:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=1173408#post1173408

So that's at least two people who hit 1/100 odds twice in a row. We should head for the track.

The thing is, none of this hassle had to happen. If I had known that there had been a "rash" of failures, then I could have postponed my installation and installed reliable servos when Garmin had them ready. After blowing that opportunity, if Garmin had simply recalled these servos, then I'd have both of them replaced by now, and I would be happily heading for Cape Cod with a working autopilot.

Anyway, I thought somebody might find my story useful. I know I would have loved to have known this information before doing my panel upgrade.
 
Bummer for the Garmin servo's. My neighbor is also fighting with his Garmin autopilot and has been for long time. I like my Trio Gold servo. Totally disconnects when not in use. No friction in the linkage.
 
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Bummer for the Garmin servo's. My neighbor is also fighting with his Garmin autopilot. I like my Trio Gold servo. Totally disconnects when not in use. No friction in the linkage.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd be looking hard at the Trio.
 
Just in case it is implied otherwise - Garmin servos do the same.

The overall design and capabilities seem pretty good. I'd actually have no complaints about my Garmin autopilot if it worked reliably.

I also like the G5, although it needs a better way to dismiss the servo fault message. When a servo fails, the warning blocks a big chunk of the screen, and the message doesn't go away until you turn off the unit, turn it back on in configuration mode, and disable the servo(s).
 
It was kind of annoying when my brand new Garmin GSA28 pitch servo died not long after it was installed. It was more annoying to learn, from the distributor, that there had in fact been a "rash" of such failures.

Anyway, I thought somebody might find my story useful. I know I would have loved to have known this information before doing my panel upgrade.

It appears to me that you are just venting your frustration about the failed servos and Garmin's handling of the situation rather than posting "useful" information.

Having been around avionics for a very long time, anyone who believes failures don't happen hasn't been around very long, or has just been plain lucky. In todays world where software drives almost everything 'glitches' crop up from time to time, they are usually addressed with software updates.

I don't think its fair to bash a company for not replacing a working unit as 'precautionary' measure just for your convenience.

Nobody likes failures but they do happen, its not the end of the world.

PS: Having flown behind most of the AP's out there, I happen to think the Garmin in best of the bunch and the easiest to use.
 
just saying----

Doug---it might be worthwhile to have WALT look this over--

Tom
 
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It appears to me that you are just venting your frustration about the failed servos and Garmin's handling of the situation rather than posting "useful" information.

I am absolutely frustrated with the failed servos and Garmin's handling of the situation. If you think my frustration is unreasonable, or that I should keep quiet about it, or both, so be it.

But if I was choosing an autopilot right now, I'd find the information useful.

I must have missed the part where I called it "the end of the world."

I note that you are an authorized G3X dealer. Have you had any Garmin servos fail? My installer has seen three fail that I know of -- my two, and also one that he installed in another aircraft.

A surprising number of us seem to be hitting that 1 in 100 chance.
 
I'd actually have no complaints about my Garmin autopilot if it worked reliably.

I know it stinks to be one of the lucky ones but once you get these issues behind you, you will be amazed and will soon forget about all these initial issues... I know it does not help you but the vast majority of us have had stellar performance.
 
I note that you are an authorized G3X dealer. Have you had any Garmin servos fail? My installer has seen three fail that I know of -- my two, and also one that he installed in another aircraft.

A surprising number of us seem to be hitting that 1 in 100 chance.

I understand your frustration and I don't like failures anymore than anyone else, maybe even less becuase I don't get paid to troubeshoot system faults and/or replace failed units under warranty!

I've installed quite a few G3X systems not to mention my own which I installed a number of years ago.

With that being said, I have only seen one Garmin component failure for any of those installs which was a servo that failed on power up a couple of years ago, zero failures or problems with all other LRU's.

For what it's worth I've seen much higher problem rates with some other manufacturers that shall remain nameless.
 
The point that seems to be missed in the back-and-forth of this conversation is that Garmin KNEW about this error and corrected it, without even so much as a peep to the list of customers who might have affected units. THAT's the rub.

While I agree with much of what Walt has written in his position as an experienced avionics installer, I disagree strongly with the concept that a known defect might not be communicated to the field.

Having lived on the other side of the fence as an avionics manufacturer and having written the Service Bulletins which mandated very expensive work to be done on air carrier aircraft, I know firsthand the pain involved in finding a defect and falling on one's sword by admitting that defect to the world. Garmin has a strong history of not wanting to fall on their sword and this is just one more example of their failure to communicate safety-related information to their customer base in a clear, concise and timely fashion.

Team G3X, if your'e reading this please understand this type of corporate practice is why I do not recommend Garmin equipment. The cost to correct the fault is almost always considerably less than the cost of defending the presence of a fault before a court of law following an aviation tragedy. If you think announcing a product fault via a service bulletin makes the Garmin name look bad, just think of what that name would look like in newspaper headlines following a court finding of culpability and the subsequent award of damages.
 
From my point of view there is no safety issue. The fault appears to protect someone from a safety issue. From my understanding the servo detects a possible (in this case false alarm) failure of some sort and prevents itself from being used. The position that an INOP AP somehow constitutes a safety issue is not something I am signing up for. Inconvenience yes, safety issue no.

Since the aviation division of Garmin has been deeply invested in several law suits, I would say that we can all rest assured that their legal department is heavily involved in these type of issues/decisions.
 
For me it's primarily a financial and customer-service issue. I thought I was a customer, but unfortunately it turns out that I am an unwitting beta tester, at my expense, of servos that are or were known to be suffering a "rash" of failures.

It's not crazy, however, to think of the problem -- whatever it is -- as a potential safety issue. Both my servos have failed on the ground. But unless that's the only place they can fail (who knows?) we're talking about gadgets that could go belly up while controlling an aircraft at 100 knots near minimums in the clag.

Yes, I know it's my job to recover from such a failure, and I like to think I could do so. I train hard to maintain those skills. But I'm also certain the event would increase risk, and make life more interesting than I preferred.

If failures of Garmin servos were merely speculative, this would be a largely academic discussion. But my rate is exactly 100% failures so far -- and we know that I'm not the only one batting .000 with these things. If the same situation were happening with S-Tec servos in certified aircraft, I have little doubt that the FAA would take note, and that their motivation would be safety concerns.

Finally, you may be right -- Garmin's legal department may well have signed off on Garmin's refusal to recall any of these servos. But my 26 years in the legal business strongly -- strongly -- suggests that we cannot "rest assured" of that. :)

From my point of view there is no safety issue. The fault appears to protect someone from a safety issue. From my understanding the servo detects a possible (in this case false alarm) failure of some sort and prevents itself from being used. The position that an INOP AP somehow constitutes a safety issue is not something I am signing up for. Inconvenience yes, safety issue no.

Since the aviation division of Garmin has been deeply invested in several law suits, I would say that we can all rest assured that their legal department is heavily involved in these type of issues/decisions.
 
Let's not spread "bad info"

Bummer for the Garmin servo's. My neighbor is also fighting with his Garmin autopilot and has been for long time. I like my Trio Gold servo. Totally disconnects when not in use. No friction in the linkage.

I did some checking. Steve's neighbor built a beautiful Glastar and had a well known avionics dealer in Fla. supply the harnesses and all the avionics for his aircraft. Legacy G3X screens, and GSU 73. His autopilot that he has been fighting with is a TRU TRACK GX PILOT!!!!!!!!

I have helped this neighbor configure his GTX 330 to an ES and the avionics shop supplied him with good schematics. In talking with him recently about his autopilot woes, I believe it is all operator induced and I will make some time to help him with it.

The Tru Trak GX pilot works wonderfully with the G3X. I had it originally in my airplane and thought of it as my backup attitude solution when I had a single AHRS.
 
Photos

The new post in this thread reminded me: In the category of "in case it happens to you," here's the relevant error message, and the page on the G5 that identifies WHICH servo has failed.

The latter was a key discovery for me since, the first time around, I of course accessed the wrong one. :)

[/IMG]

[/IMG]
 
The new post in this thread reminded me: In the category of "in case it happens to you," here's the relevant error message, and the page on the G5 that identifies WHICH servo has failed.

The latter was a key discovery for me since, the first time around, I of course accessed the wrong one. :)

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

So, are you saying that it was the roll servo that had failed initially?
Are you saying that you removed the pitch servo and had it replaced when in fact it was the roll servo?
 
So, are you saying that it was the roll servo that had failed initially?
Are you saying that you removed the pitch servo and had it replaced when in fact it was the roll servo?

He said the pitch servo failed initial. He asked Garmin to replace the roll servo at the same time since the serial numbers were off by one. Garmin refused, after getting the new pitch servo, soon after the roll servo failed.

Tim
 
He said the pitch servo failed initial. He asked Garmin to replace the roll servo at the same time since the serial numbers were off by one. Garmin refused, after getting the new pitch servo, soon after the roll servo failed.

Tim

How about letting him answer!

He states, he accessed the wrong one!
 
He said the pitch servo failed initial. He asked Garmin to replace the roll servo at the same time since the serial numbers were off by one. Garmin refused, after getting the new pitch servo, soon after the roll servo failed.

Tim

This is correct.

When the first servo failed, I didn't know which one it was. I guessed roll, but that was incorrect. I then discovered that the G5 would identify the failed one.

Garmin agreed to replace the pitch servo under warranty. There was a delay since they didn't have the part available. I asked them to also replace the roll servo, given my discovery (from a source other than Garmin) that there had actually been a rash of Garmin servo failures. I figured that the defect in my pitch servo would likely also exist in my roll servo, which was an identical gadget with a consecutive serial number. Garmin declined, ultimately giving me the assurances I quoted above.

A short time after I got the pitch servo replaced, I fired up the panel and saw the familiar error message. This time I knew how to identify the culprit, and it was indeed the roll servo, as I had predicted. Those are the photos above.
 
Servo

I just replaced two GSA 28 servos in my RV8 . It was an intermittent hardware fault , showed up twice . Emailed the G3 experts , discussed it over a few emails , they sent me two replacement servos. Garmin did charge me for them but instantly credited me back upon receiving my old ones .
I could not be happier with the way Garmin has handled any of my questions /problems or warranty .
I'm sure they strive for 99% customer satisfaction............guess you are the 1%
 
I just replaced two GSA 28 servos in my RV8 . It was an intermittent hardware fault , showed up twice . Emailed the G3 experts , discussed it over a few emails , they sent me two replacement servos. Garmin did charge me for them but instantly credited me back upon receiving my old ones .
I could not be happier with the way Garmin has handled any of my questions /problems or warranty .
I'm sure they strive for 99% customer satisfaction............guess you are the 1%

In terms of customer satisfaction, I'm not sure what percentage of Garmin servo owners I represent (and neither are you). :)

But if we're talking statistics, here's an interesting issue: From what I can tell, there are at least three of us that have had both servos die -- you, me, and Bob Meyers:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=1173408#post1173408

If Garmin is right that each servo in the field has "less than one percent" chance of failing, what are the odds that three people would each roll snake eyes on both of their servos?
 
Servos

Garmin had some " quality control issues " , they fixed my problem in a timely manor . Nothing in this world is perfect , fix it and go on with life . It's an Experimental Aircraft ,consider your plane a flying experiment .
 
Garmin had some " quality control issues " , they fixed my problem in a timely manor . Nothing in this world is perfect , fix it and go on with life . It's an Experimental Aircraft ,consider your plane a flying experiment .

Look, this isn't the biggest issue on earth. You'll be relieved to know that I'm already going on with my life.

I'm actually more concerned right now with a new nosewheel shimmy....

And your perspective makes sense. Garmin did not describe its autopilot as a "flying experiment" when Garmin sold it to me, but that has indeed been my experience with it so far!
 
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