Landing the RV-8 (more:)

I try to fly every day, if for just an half hour, and today shot a 20 flap approach and landing to be doing something different.

It has been 40 flaps since day one with consistent results depending on pilot input. The airplane slows quickly in flare, after landing and it works just fine.

So why try 20 flaps? Why not?

The issue is deceleration with power at idle, in flare and on runway. With no wind it is an issue and the fixed pitch prop doesn't help at all. So 40 flaps works fine. But I find it usually takes some power on final to stay in visual slot, 40 flaps is all drag.

With 20 the aircraft will descend down glide path with almost no power, depending on wind of course. That's cool.

Today with 14 knot wind mostly down runway was good time to see how 20 flaps would work. It was ok, but did not slow up as quick as with 40. The aircraft is easier to control finding he runway as it is changing velocity slower, dropping a wing just a bit to get one wheel on works, a little forward stick to keep it there and let the other wheel touch. I guess it took 200 feet more distance to clear runway over same approach and landing yesterday with 40 flaps. Not sure about that as made the same turn off taxi way easily.

Years ago I owned a C-150. As everyone knows, it had barn door 40 flaps that made it fly like a brick, great for clearing trees on short runway. With no obstacles 20 flaps was normal for me as it simply flew more like and airplane.

It's not that pronounced with the 8, but the 8 does seem to fly better with 20 flaps rather than 40 on approach and landing.

David-aviator said:

I try to fly every day, if for just an half hour, and today shot a 20 flap approach and landing to be doing something different.

So why try 20 flaps? Why not?
.

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You might want try 0 Flaps sometime as well. It's a good thing to be familiar with on the off chance the flap motor fails. Which is not unheard of in RV's (or other airplanes)

John RV8 said:

You might want try 0 Flaps sometime as well. It's a good thing to be familiar with on the off chance the flap motor fails. Which is not unheard of in RV's (or other airplanes)

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Excellent suggestion, had to do it in the 7 with a failed motor. The flaps were almost fully retracted when it quit.

What's really a quick challenge when that happens is to not exceed flap extension speed.

Nice analysis. Good read.

Glad to hear you're trying to fly everyday. That motivates me.

The times I've landed with less than full flaps, I made similar observations.

* Easier to control
* Longer ground roll
* Less power required
* Different attitude and sight picture

After my main wheels are down, with the tail-wheel still up, I raise the flaps to zero as the speed bleeds off. The reduction of drag makes my ground roll longer, sans brakes.

Interested to know how you (all) do it. Do you raise the flaps once once the wheels are down? Do you keep the tail wheel up or go to a tail wheel low (but not touching) attitude to induce drag and slow the roll more quickly?

Chkaharyer99 said:

Interested to know how you (all) do it. Do you raise the flaps once once the wheels are down? Do you keep the tail wheel up or go to a tail wheel low (but not touching) attitude to induce drag and slow the roll more quickly?

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I never move the flaps from whatever setting I used for landing until I am clear of the runway. If full flaps were not used for landing (my most frequent setting) I go to full down to make it easier to get off the wing when I climb out of the plane. Also I don't care to add all the extra cycles on the flap motor. My home runway is rather rough, so after engine start for the next flight I raise the flaps to 20 degrees and use that for take-off.

Chkaharyer99 said:

After my main wheels are down, with the tail-wheel still up, I raise the flaps to zero as the speed bleeds off. The reduction of drag makes my ground roll longer, sans brakes.

Interested to know how you (all) do it. Do you raise the flaps once once the wheels are down? Do you keep the tail wheel up or go to a tail wheel low (but not touching) attitude to induce drag and slow the roll more quickly?

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I do not understand the benefit of raising the flaps on a tail dragger to zero after touch down.

I do raise them immediately on a trigear if landing off of pavement because it makes it possible to hold the nose wheel off longer.
The trade of less drag for more weight on the mains and the ability to brake harder makes the landing distance pretty much equal either way.
This is actually the primary reason I like the manual flaps on my RV-6A... I can change from full flaps to zero flaps in an instant.

rvbuilder2002 said:

I do not understand the benefit of raising the flaps on a tail dragger to zero after touch down.

I do raise them immediately on a trigear if landing off of pavement because it makes it possible to hold the nose wheel off longer.
The trade of less drag for more weight on the mains and the ability to brake harder makes the landing distance pretty much equal either way.
This is actually the primary reason I like the manual flaps on my RV-6A... I can change from full flaps to zero flaps in an instant.

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Dumping the flaps seems to be a common technique among back-country pilots who fly taildraggers, but I have no idea how much difference it makes. I suspect that the longer retraction time of electric flaps reduces whatever benefit there might be.

As to not touching the flaps until clear of the runway, I think this was originally a concern because early Bonanzas had flap and gear handles that resemble each other. I don't see how it could be a problem in an RV. If raising the flaps is really going to cause a significant distraction then perhaps more familiarity with the aircraft is needed?