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A leaf in the wind...

jeffkersey

Well Known Member
Sometimes I feel a little like a leave in the wind in this little plane. It keeps it from getting boring. I enjoy the challenge. My wife, not so much... I still have not had her on a smooth flight in the new RV yet. She thinks it is always bumpy and it is because the pane is so light. I have to remind her we get bounced around in big jets too. I look forward to a fun trip with her that is like glass... Oh well. Gusting to 20kts, 90 degrees to the runway. My little plane handled it just fine. I love this thing!:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I3HtLJ4OWY
 
She obviously has never flown in a Champ. My wife has dozens of hours right seat in the RV. She almost cried on her first flight in the Champ.
Way to fight through the gusts and get stabilized. Ground effect seems to have calmed things enough for you to be wings level in the flair. Wait until you treat her to that kind of gusting cross wind on the ground. YeeHa!
 
My wife used to be uncomfortable in the bumps too. But one day in a C-177 we flew through a nasty rotor and both our heads hit the roof. I turned to her and said calmly: "well, this sucks." After that she realized it was not the end of the world she mellowed out. Now she sleeps through all but the worst of it.

Give her time, and make sure you remain calm and relaxed. She will key off of your reaction.
 
At least she is willing to fly in small airplanes. Mine? Not. She gets motion sickness easily.

But bouncing around on a horse is just fine...
 
I'm gonna stir the pot and say this is a perfect example of why we should take tall x-wind landing tales with a huge grain of salt. OP, I'm not calling yours a tale, just noting that based on your crab angle on short final that there was a right x-wind. But once you got below that tree line, you needed no crab or bank to control heading or drift. There was very little x-wind exposure at the time of touchdown. Heck, you even touched down on the left wheel. So you did more of a x-wind approach than a x-wind landing...but it did appear gusty/turbulent. :)
 
She obviously has never flown in a Champ. My wife has dozens of hours right seat in the RV. She almost cried on her first flight in the Champ.
Way to fight through the gusts and get stabilized. Ground effect seems to have calmed things enough for you to be wings level in the flair. Wait until you treat her to that kind of gusting cross wind on the ground. YeeHa!

She got that on her first ride. She buried her head in her lap. I told her to look at the horizon but she does not always listen to me...
 
this is true

I'm gonna stir the pot and say this is a perfect example of why we should take tall x-wind landing tales with a huge grain of salt. OP, I'm not calling yours a tale, just noting that based on your crab angle on short final that there was a right x-wind. But once you got below that tree line, you needed no crab or bank to control heading or drift. There was very little x-wind exposure at the time of touchdown. Heck, you even touched down on the left wheel. So you did more of a x-wind approach than a x-wind landing...but it did appear gusty/turbulent. :)

There is a line of trees on the right side that does help block the wind on the uphill part of the runway. Then it is wide open. You can see the sock if you look close. I landed left main because of a gust that lifted the right wing a little . I should have been more aileron into the wind. I'll keep working at it.
 
There is a line of trees on the right side that does help block the wind on the uphill part of the runway. Then it is wide open. You can see the sock if you look close. I landed left main because of a gust that lifted the right wing a little . I should have been more aileron into the wind. I'll keep working at it.

I figured. I'm not trying to pick on you, just using your video as a good example of the difference between x-wind on approach vs. x-wind on touchdown for those who have seen past x-wind landing discussions turn into man-measuring contests, and thinking they're inadequate. :) Reported wind speeds can be pretty meaningless, depending on other factors. If you'd had much x-wind at touchdown, you'd have needed to carry either significant bank or crab right down to the grass, which wasn't needed here. You did a good job, and flew the conditions. Not trying to take away from your ability to handle x-winds, which I'm sure is perfectly fine.
 
that darn wind

nausea: meclezine. OTC and non drowsy. Wives love it.
Once got my head knocked so hard in a 185 on floats in Alaska... my head was bleeding. And that is not a light aircraft compared to my RV.
Wives get used to it.... or they maybe don't. Mine got a PPL and still is not the happiest camper on windy days. So I watch the forecast pretty close.
 
Smooth Flight

One thing you might try is flying early in the day when the air is much smoother. Even early airline flights are much smoother.
 
I do RV nose wheel transition training in my -9A. So with that said, that landing was nice if it had been on pavement but on a sod field that appeared to be somewhat soft as indicated by the wheel depressions in the grass, I cringed. IMHO, the nose gear needed to be held off the surface as long as possible before lowering to the non-paved surface. And yes you can brake moderately while the nose wheel is off the surface, if done with finesse and yes, it takes practice. The first time you need to do it shouldn't be your first time. Just a thought, if you think your pax was uncomfortable in turbulence, imagine how much more unhappy the pax would had been if that nose gear had folded. Just one guy's opinion. It was a nice approach to touchdown. And I enjoyed the video. Dan from Reno
 
Came here to post this

I do RV nose wheel transition training in my -9A. So with that said, that landing was nice if it had been on pavement but on a sod field that appeared to be somewhat soft as indicated by the wheel depressions in the grass, I cringed. IMHO, the nose gear needed to be held off the surface as long as possible before lowering to the non-paved surface. And yes you can brake moderately while the nose wheel is off the surface, if done with finesse and yes, it takes practice. The first time you need to do it shouldn't be your first time. Just a thought, if you think your pax was uncomfortable in turbulence, imagine how much more unhappy the pax would had been if that nose gear had folded. Just one guy's opinion. It was a nice approach to touchdown. And I enjoyed the video. Dan from Reno

I, too, cringed when I saw the nose touch at the same time as the mains. The Vans gear has got to be treated more gently than this. Broken gear can lead to broken necks - ask Chuck and Gail Hagerty, who lived to tell the tale. Bleed off all the speed you can before letting that nose wheel touch. Flare fully. It takes practice. I've done it thousands of times on my home turf, and still don't get it right every time. I do find the longer it's been since I went up and practiced some full power off stalls, the less perfect I get the flare and the more my landings suffer.

-Stormy
 
One thing you might try is flying early in the day when the air is much smoother. Even early airline flights are much smoother.

I have flown most of my hours before 10am and Always fly early with the wife. She thinks the RV is smooth as silk compared to other stuff she has flown in because those are typically in the STL summer afternoon. When doing cross countries we leave early and have smooth ride.

Dawn flying is the best kept secret in flying as never a sole out there but me in the perfectly smooth air.
 
When it is really bumpy, you can use your feet to smooth out the bumps by alternating them back an forth, just a little bit.

Not big movements, just small ones and keep them moving all the way to touchdown.

That technique can be the difference between landing and finding a different airport.
 
Smooth air flying

Finding a smooth ride ? 5 things to look for




As a student pilot, my flight instructor spent a lot of time teaching me how to fly safely. That?s important, but it?s not the only thing you should learn to become a good pilot. As I started flying cross-countries as a private pilot, I realized I had never really learned how to fly comfortably.

That may sound like a really minor point, but it?s not. When you take passengers up for a flight, especially if they?ve never been in a small airplane before, comfort is a major determinant of how much fun they have. They expect you to be safe; minimizing the bumps will keep them coming back.

If you?ve ever talked to an airline pilot ? or heard them on the radio ? you know how much effort they put into finding a smooth ride. They?re constantly asking Air Traffic Control (ATC) for reports of turbulence, and they?ll go so far as to change their route of flight or altitude fairly dramatically to find smooth air.

In general aviation airplanes, we don?t worry much about the jetstream or mountain wave at 37,000 feet. Instead, here are five things to look for:

Haze layer
The haze layer is a good indicator of where the smooth air starts.
?The haze layer. This concept is incredibly important for light GA airplanes, but it?s rarely taught as a part of primary training ? even though it?s there almost every day of the year. If you climb out on a typical summer day, you?ll bump along for the first 2-5000 feet in hazy air. Then, if you?re paying attention, you?ll notice there?s almost a line in the sky: above is clear blue, below is murky. That?s the top of the haze layer, and below it you?ll almost always find a few bumps and restricted visibility. Above it will most likely be smooth air and a nice ride. In the cooler seasons, you may find the top of the haze layer as low as 1500 feet; in Texas in the summer it might be 9000 feet, and it rises as the day heats up. Learn to find this layer and plan to cruise above it (if possible) when you?re flying cross-country.
?Gusty winds. Strong winds by themselves don?t necessarily mean turbulence, but gusty winds almost always do. This is usually the worst within a few thousand feet of the surface, so again, higher is better. In particular, watch for those gusty days following the passage of a cold front. The combination of cooler air overrunning warm ground and a wind shift often make for a bumpy takeoff and landing.
?Terrain. If you fly in Kansas, you may not worry much about hills and mountains, but if you fly in Colorado it should be very high on your list. The combination of strong winds or full sun over uneven terrain can create some memorable turbulence, so be alert if your departure or destination airport takes you over rugged terrain. This doesn?t have to mean the Rockies, either. Small hills on short final or even large buildings can act like rocks in a stream, creating just enough turbulence to jostle you as you prepare to land.

Thermals
Higher is usually better.
?Thermals. Ever flown over a Walmart parking lot? Then you?ve experienced thermals, the rising columns of air that are created by the sun?s heating of the earth and then the release of that heat back into the atmosphere. Large, flat, dark spaces like parking lots and freshly-plowed fields are the best thermal creators, while wooded areas don?t absorb as much heat. So if you fly from a parking lot to a forest, you?ll notice it when you bump from a rising column of air to a stable or descending column. Glider pilots learn to use these thermals to climb, and they get very proficient at spotting thermals before entering them. You can too; it just takes a little practice.
?Cloud type. If you?re a VFR pilot, you shouldn?t be flying through any clouds, so why should you care what they look like? The type of clouds, particularly whether they?re cumulus or stratus, is a good indicator of the stability of the air aloft. And stability is what we?re really talking about with most turbulence. Big, billowing cumulus clouds usually mean there?s some lifting action in the atmosphere, while flat stratus clouds often indicate more stable air. If you?re an instrument rated pilot, consider the cloud type before you go busting through them. Just because you?re legal to fly through clouds doesn?t mean you have to. I?ve deviated around clouds plenty of times, even on an IFR flight plan, because I didn?t want to find out what the inside felt like.

None of these factors are necessarily dangerous, so just because there?s a breeze doesn?t mean you need to cancel your flight. But consider your route of flight, your altitude and your passengers. A few adjustments, or even just a good pre-takeoff briefing to set expectations, can make a difference. If you do encounter turbulence, be careful to to fight the bumps. While you want to maintain positive control of the airplane at all times, don?t make it worse by overcontrolling. Fly a basic attitude and let the natural waves in the air do what they will.

One other thing you can change is the time of day you fly. A constant throughout this list is that morning flights are usually smoother: the thermals haven?t built up yet, the wind usually isn?t as strong and the haze layer may be lower. If you can fly at 8am instead of 5pm, you can key the mic and do your best airline captain impression. ?Approach, N12345, 5500, smooth ride??
 
I wish they could all be text book...

I do RV nose wheel transition training in my -9A. So with that said, that landing was nice if it had been on pavement but on a sod field that appeared to be somewhat soft as indicated by the wheel depressions in the grass, I cringed. IMHO, the nose gear needed to be held off the surface as long as possible before lowering to the non-paved surface. And yes you can brake moderately while the nose wheel is off the surface, if done with finesse and yes, it takes practice. The first time you need to do it shouldn't be your first time. Just a thought, if you think your pax was uncomfortable in turbulence, imagine how much more unhappy the pax would had been if that nose gear had folded. Just one guy's opinion. It was a nice approach to touchdown. And I enjoyed the video. Dan from Reno

Dan,

I appreciate your comments. Before I bought this plane I did take an RV training course and I do understand how fragile this landing gear can be. I've seen the videos and read stories about the unfortunate endings of some RV nose wheel flights. Some days I can do better. I am operating out of 1150 ft. One way in, one way out. Some parts of the strip drain better than others. Near the end of the useable part on the approach end, someone had driven across and dug a couple muddy ruts shortening my runway. I was not comfortable rolling through it and had to land beyond. Coupled with a little more speed because of the sheering wind potential, I had to get on the binders almost instantly and brake fairly aggressively to stop on the remaining runway. Full aft stick but no way hold the nose off any longer. I'm always working at it. I wish I could make every landing text book. I know that is not possible but I try.

To answer to some of the other comments. My wife was not on this flight. She has only been up once so far in this plane and it was even worse conditions. Severe clear but really bumpy. I do understand mornings and evenings are usually smoother. Flights with her usually have a Mission to go somewhere on her time schedule. She does not say take me flying today just for fun.

Anyway, I am having fun with this plane, making videos, and analyizing my flying and the planes performance.

Blue sky's and tailwinds,
Jeff
 
Interesting

When it is really bumpy, you can use your feet to smooth out the bumps by alternating them back an forth, just a little bit.

Not big movements, just small ones and keep them moving all the way to touchdown.

That technique can be the difference between landing and finding a different airport.

Interesting Bill. In a tail wheel, I certainly do a constant dance on the pedal.
I think on approach in any plane I uncontiously do a little dance just reacquaint myself with what the rudder is capable of to be more connect to the plane.

I'll experiment with it....
 
You are a lucky man..

I have flown most of my hours before 10am and Always fly early with the wife. She thinks the RV is smooth as silk compared to other stuff she has flown in because those are typically in the STL summer afternoon. When doing cross countries we leave early and have smooth ride.

Dawn flying is the best kept secret in flying as never a sole out there but me in the perfectly smooth air.

I am glad hear your wife moves on your schedule. I try with mine but sometimes I can't rush her. She is ready to leave when she is ready to leave... Busy, hard working, woman....

I love early flights too :)
 
Another pilot in the family...

nausea: meclezine. OTC and non drowsy. Wives love it.
Once got my head knocked so hard in a 185 on floats in Alaska... my head was bleeding. And that is not a light aircraft compared to my RV.
Wives get used to it.... or they maybe don't. Mine got a PPL and still is not the happiest camper on windy days. So I watch the forecast pretty close.

Congrats on your wife getting her PPL. I wish mine was interested. She can ride a motorcycle but is too busy and maybe a little scared to be a pilot. I've never been able to get her to take the controls in 13 years of flying....
 
I concur

I, too, cringed when I saw the nose touch at the same time as the mains. The Vans gear has got to be treated more gently than this. Broken gear can lead to broken necks - ask Chuck and Gail Hagerty, who lived to tell the tale. Bleed off all the speed you can before letting that nose wheel touch. Flare fully. It takes practice. I've done it thousands of times on my home turf, and still don't get it right every time. I do find the longer it's been since I went up and practiced some full power off stalls, the less perfect I get the flare and the more my landings suffer.

-Stormy

Stormy,

I agree with everything you said. This was not my best. I just thought the video was interesting and entertaining. Some things about the conditions of this day did not allow me to stay off the brakes for any amount of time. On calmer days and the full 1150 ft useable. I can come in under 55kts and just hold the nose wheel off and hardly use any brakes. I'll keep working at it....
 
happy spouses and girl friends

One more comment regarding female psychology, (I know, that is dangerous territory) One of the earlier comments mentioned burying her face in her lap. A natural reaction when we don't like what we see looking forward. As most pilots know, just the 90 shift in orientation of the inner ear makes it much much worse. We should all do whatever we can to convince passengers to stay heads up and looking as far to the horizon as possible. One of my students, a surgeon was the first to suggest Meclezine. It used to be a prescription drug but was made OTC. My wife even used it yesterday flying off a Colorado River airport that was windy. It works well, leaves no after effects, but like any similar drug must be taken preventatively.... not after you feel crummy.
The other thing we did was turn the autopilot off. Hand flying in bumpy conditions seems to keep the brain/hand/feet connections busy enough to help out. I don't know if the anti-nausea is on the approved FAA list, but I don't take it, so legally I am PIC for the flight.
In the certified world, it is common to find "pinch hitter" courses offered for spouses. I have never heard of it here on Van's. Maybe someone does such a short course, and I have just never heard of it.
 
Stormy,

I agree with everything you said. This was not my best. I just thought the video was interesting and entertaining. Some things about the conditions of this day did not allow me to stay off the brakes for any amount of time. On calmer days and the full 1150 ft useable. I can come in under 55kts and just hold the nose wheel off and hardly use any brakes. I'll keep working at it....

Thank you for posting this video and braving our comments. You are doing everyone here a favor including yourself by participating in this discussion. There is a good video from England of an RV-7a that was running out of runway and had to put the nose down to try to get stopped. It didn't end well. The answer is that we can't put ourselves in that situation. If you can't start braking while keeping the stick back you are landing too fast for the field left available.


-Andy
 
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