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NTex

Well Known Member
I'd like a second set of eyes and maybe some good advice on my panel.

My mission will include IFR.

The equipment list includes:
G3x touch system
Audio Panel
GTN 650 (eventually)
G3X autopilot
Dynon/GRT/other vendor backup EFIS

ipad for copilot seat. It is also sized to handle another G3X touch if I win the lottery. Ideally, the old school G3x 370/375 would go there but I guess they are not backwards compatible with the new system.



Some things I'm considering that maybe y'all can weigh in on:

  • keep the ray allen trim or use the G3x for indication
  • combine the taxi/landing light to one DPDT switch (if possible)
  • move the lighting switch group to the right
  • move boost pump to center above throttle
  • move avionics and AP disconnect to left near mag switches
  • control cabin lights with a dimmer only (is this possible?)

Revised layout:
panel_r2_zps0b8d59da.png


Big version:
Click here for revised layout

first draft:
Panel_R1_zps7011735f.png


Click here for big version

If anyone has any comments, fire away!

Thanks
Chris
 
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NTex said:
[*]combine the taxi/landing light to one DPDT switch (if possible)

[*]control cabin lights with a dimmer only (is this possible?)
[/LIST]
Click to expand...

Combining taxi/landing on one switch is possible - did it in my RV-4. Check out AeroElectric Connection for wiring diagram of proper switch.

On my panel lights I have a pot/switch combo that first turns the light circuit on then adjusts the level of the lights if that is what you mean. I made my own dimmer with a large power transistor and a couple of resistors but more sophisticated units could operate the same way.
 
rbibb said:
Combining taxi/landing on one switch is possible - did it in my RV-4. Check out AeroElectric Connection for wiring diagram of proper switch.

On my panel lights I have a pot/switch combo that first turns the light circuit on then adjusts the level of the lights if that is what you mean. I made my own dimmer with a large power transistor and a couple of resistors but more sophisticated units could operate the same way.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I meant. I'll probably look for a commercial version. My goal is to minimize the amount of switches.
 
Chris, you might want to check out PilotLights.net. They have dimmers that do exactly what you need. I purchased the 4 channel dimmer product they have for my 9A.

Darin
 
I would move the autopilot controller to the bottom and raise the audio panel and GTN (just my preference).

Have you considered a PAR100EX audio panel which will give you a second comm? (Marker beacons are being decommissioned anyway)

You might need a spot for cabin heat on your throttle quadrant. (And carb heat and alt air if you're carb)
 
Zuldarin said:
Chris, you might want to check out PilotLights.net. They have dimmers that do exactly what you need. I purchased the 4 channel dimmer product they have for my 9A.

Darin
Click to expand...

Darin,

Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. Glad to see they're compatible with LEDs

I would move the autopilot controller to the bottom and raise the audio panel and GTN (just my preference).

Have you considered a PAR100EX audio panel which will give you a second comm? (Marker beacons are being decommissioned anyway)

You might need a spot for cabin heat on your throttle quadrant. (And carb heat and alt air if you're carb)
Click to expand...

I'm 50/50 on moving the autopilot controller. Seems to be standard practice for airliners and some panels here. The only issue I can see is that the a/p controller is not deep, but the audio panel is so it might interfere with the canopy latch hardware/subpanel if I move it up to the top.

Already have a GMA 340, so want to stay with that even if the MB are going away.

The alt air is next to the alt static in the left corner. It might be hard to see because I can't figure out how to make the photo larger, if you click on the link it will download the pdf which can zoom in. Fuel injected so no need for carb heat.

What are thoughts on keeping all the cables on removable subpanel? If I need to remove the panel it might be a pain with the cables. Maybe put cabin heat and alt air next to the throttle?

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
 
In regards to cables; the throttle quadrant is removable from the bottom of the panel and the cables are adel clamped to the bottom of the sub panel, so they all can be dropped off the panel and sub panel.

I ran a ton of wiring "through" my sub panel but if I were to do it again I would avoid running through the sub panel and try to run everything under the bottom of the sub panel. (Just like the cables are adel clamped to the bottom of the sub panel)
 
Been thre done that

Move all switches from under the G3X to prevent turning them off while operating the touch and controls in turbulance.
 
I second moving the autopilot to the bottom of the stack.

I would use the trim/flaps indicator on the G3X instead of the Ray Allen Indicators. Nice thing about the EFIS every indicator/guage etc is in 1 spot.

Reference the cables, great idea to keep them on removable brackets from the panel. My alt air is re-settable in flight and is to the right of my mixture, Cabin and seat heat are on the far right of the panel away from all other controls.
 
Move the flap switch to the right so you can toggle it up and down without removing your hand from the throttle.

I agree with the others, use the EFIS for all your warning and position lights.

On my first panel I had a green LED at the top center of the panel to tell me when the fuel pump was on (or off) and at night it was way too bright!

I would add a USB power port next to the 12 Volt cigarette outlet. (It looks like you might already have that in there but I can't tell from the picture.)

Unless you are going to put in redundant pitot and static lines, I would replace the D10A with a D2 PocketPanel. They don't require static and pitot lines and they have their own internal battery that will last over four hours.
 
One little detail that I thought of when planning my panel and switch locations is the placement of the cabin light switch. I decided that I wanted to be able to reach in and easily find it to turn it on. I placed mine up in a separate spot from the other lighting switches.
 
Make sure you have clearance behind your center stack. Keep in mind you can see, read, and touch almost the entire width of your panel from your pilots seat. Moving the stack over and making more clearance between your main screen might help with mounting too.
 
Guys,

Thanks for all the feedback.

Need to give credit to SteinAIr, they're the ones actually "designing" my panel. Of course the equipment list and layout comes from me (and input here).

Also note that the GTN 650 is not going to be installed for a while (expensive box!).

The GTR 20 remote comm radio is going in as my main radio until I can afford the 650.

I think the ray allen trim position light is gone. I wasn't sure how the G3x would display it, and since I only have 1 PFD it wasn't sure if it would be too busy on the screen.

Think I'll move the autopilot controller to the bottom after all. Seems like it would be closer to the engine controls. Just can't help but ignore the ergonomic studies of the major airliners who put them all on top?

The key switch is a theft deterrent, but I will use that to test the p-leads, and the toggle switches to test the 12V signal to the mags (eventually I'll have 2 electronic ignitions).

And finally, I'm going to move the alt air and cabin heat to the quadrant area.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Chris
 
NTex said:
The key switch is a theft deterrent...
Click to expand...
More than 8000 RV's flying and i've never heard of someone stealing one... :)

Heard lots of people jokingly say they'd like to after seeing a nice example, but that's another thing...
 
NTex said:
Think I'll move the autopilot controller to the bottom after all. Seems like it would be closer to the engine controls. Just can't help but ignore the ergonomic studies of the major airliners who put them all on top?
Click to expand...

Hello Chris,

This is an excellent panel that you will really enjoy.

As you allude to, there are some definite advantages to mounting the GMC 305 at the top of the stack as long as you can rest your hand on the glare shield and use your thumb to push buttons and roll the wheel.

Being able to rest your hand there while making wheel commanded changes to vertical speed, airspeed, and pitch while flying through turbulence is one reason you see so many airplanes installing it there, but the RV-7/9 guys here tell me that the glare shield may protrude too far forward for this to work well, so the bottom location may be the best and most convenient.

I may have missed it on your panel, but one other panel control you might consider if you haven't already is the TO/GA button. As you probably know, the G3X autopilot is tightly integrated with the GTN 650 so you can push a single button at the missed approach point, add power, and execute the coupled missed. The autopilot will fly you to the missed approach hold and capture that altitude without further pilot action.

You can set the selected altitude to the missed approach hold value at some point well in advance of reaching minimums to prepare for executing the missed if needed. There is a separate setting for approach minimums, so you are free to change the selected altitude during the approach.

The TO/GA button is wired to both the G3X (via a GEA 24 discrete) and the GTN 650. The GTN will activate the missed approach procedure when this button is pressed, so you don't even have to touch the GTN at this typically high workload portion of the approach.

Most of the certified Garmin autopilot installations put the TO/GA button on the throttle, but you can locate it anywhere convenient to the throttle since that will be the other pilot action required when executing the missed approach.

Let us know if you have questions.

Thanks,
Steve
 
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Panel

My 2 cents, I agree to move the 650 up more in line of sight. Also, I have my ELT switch on left side, I get nervous that an inexperienced right seater would inadvertently hit the switch, plus easier to reach by pilot in case of an incident. My panel revision will be very similar to your design with he addition of a right 10 in screen :D
 
NTex,
When complete you will love this panel and it's operation. You have received many good recommendations.
My thoughts.
I would move the Alt Air and maybe eliminate the Alt Static.
This allows you to move the key switch up.
This allows you to move the switches over and get better separation.
You have done switch grouping which is good but you have the fuel pump switch way too close to a critical switch. Put the FP out by itself which you can do after getting better separation to the left. Flap sw is in a great location so you can work it with your thumb while your hand is on the throttle. Lose trim indicator. I found no need to separate the ldg/taxi lights although I have them on a double throw so that I have a Wig/Wag. Cabin lights on a dimmer that will positive turn off. No need for a toggle.
As Steve says you will want a To/Ga but I do like the GMC on the bottom.
Cabin Heat far right as this also make a better cable run.
You will get disagreements all day about the back-up but I like the D6 with internal back-up battery. D10A seems a little much. I also run a IBBS for a EFIS/GTN back-up.
 
Chris, When you have your panel cut, you might want to have the opening for your future G3X cut on the right side of your panel. You can then use that opening to give you access to the sub-panel for mounting other boxes and wiring. You can also fasten a Ram Tab-Tite I-Pad mount directly to the cover panel for the co-pilot side to give you a nice balanced look until the lottery money comes in.


Frank Huber
RV-7A under construction
2014 dues paid
 
This forum is really helpful - thanks everyone for your help in optimizing the panel layout. As Mark said I have many good recommendations so I hope to capitalize on those.

To wrap up a few loose ends - I'm going to put a TO/GA button (cool feature) on the throttle quadrant (if possible). If not I'll do a mini-mushroom momentary switch just near the flaps.

The center stack location is pretty much set in stone because if it is shifted right I could not fit a second G3X screen if I ever wanted to. Maybe garmin will make the smaller screens compatible? In any case, an ipad will live there and I'll look into cutouts (or access panel) with a mount installed.

I'm working on making some layout changes based on the feedback, which will include:


-better grouping of switches, move as many away from PFD as possible to prevent inadvertent actuation during turbulence
-in the lighting switch group, only 2 dpdt switches for taxi/land and nav/strobe. Dimmer will control cabin lighting.
-remove spares (for clarity, room will still be allotted)
-remove ray allen trim indication
-shift light group to where dimmers are
-relocate boost pump near flaps (by itself kinda)
-remove alternate air and put on throttle quad area, along with cabin heat
-move alternate static to above backup EFIS (brand TBD - dynon 10a just a placeholder for now, may do D2 or even GRT mini)
-in the new vacated space move the 12 VDC power switches over away from screen
-put GMC 305 controller at bottom of stack

Hopefully this will make a nice, clean, functional arrangement. I'll share the updated design when I get it.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

Chris
 
Lookin' good, Chris! A great thread here for people in mid-panel mode, or guys like me still bucking empennage rivets but dreaming of the perfect panel! :)
 
rightrudder said:
Lookin' good, Chris! A great thread here for people in mid-panel mode, or guys like me still bucking empennage rivets but dreaming of the perfect panel! :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Doug, keep on buckin!

The funny thing is that I'm sure this will be outdated technology in 2 years!
 
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