What to consider prior/during my wing construction?

I have been cleaning my wing ribs for the past few days and reading the plans and instructions for about 3 weeks. I am trying to get my courage up and start counter sinking the main spars. I want to build an IFR cross country bird that can do gentleman acrobatics once in a while. That said, I have a few questions.

1) When do I decide what voltage system (12V or 24V) to install on my aircraft? Just wondering because of the lighting system and the heated pitot tube (if I decide to install one).

2) Do I really need to install a heated pitot tube if I will have back up airspeed on my GPS unit? I just talked to the FAA office in Lubbock and they told me that I am not required to install a heated pitot tube to be an IFR certified aircraft. Only if I KNOW that I will be flying into icing conditions.

3) I have the old style wing tips. Is it better/easier/faster to install the taxi/landing lights on the wing leading edge and the position lights on the tips vice buying the new wing tips and installing the landing lights and position lights together?

4) Do I need a flop tube?

5) Last, any other things that I should consider while building my wing?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but as many of us, I am learning as I go.

Thanks!

AX-O said:

1) When do I decide what voltage system (12V or 24V) to install on my aircraft? Just wondering because of the lighting system and the heated pitot tube (if I decide to install one).

2) Do I really need to install a heated pitot tube if I will have back up airspeed on my GPS unit? I just talked to the FAA office in Lubbock and they told me that I am not required to install a heated pitot tube to be an IFR certified aircraft. Only if I KNOW that I will be flying into icing conditions.

3) I have the old style wing tips. Is it better/easier/faster to install the taxi/landing lights on the wing leading edge and the position lights on the tips vice buying the new wing tips and installing the landing lights and position lights together?

4) Do I need a flop tube?

5) Last, any other things that I should consider while building my wing?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but as many of us, I am learning as I go.

Thanks!

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AX-O,

I'm almost done with wings and can help with some of these:

1. No need to decide now, you'll just be running conduit for wiring. If you follow Van's file on conduit I suspect it will cover whatever you end up with: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Wiring.pdf

2. I'm building for IFR but have no intention of getting anywhere near icing. I want to be able to get above and below a layer in rare circumstances in order to fly in and out of Southern California. I'm not putting in a heated pitot. I am going to add a Lift Reserve Indicator as a backup to airspeed, but I doubt that will be heated either.

3. I put Duckworks in each wing. The geometry just doesn't look right to me to put landing/taxi lights in the fiberglass tips, the Duckworks were really easy, and there seems to be a lot of folks unimpressed with the tip lights that are presently offered. YMMV

4. Unless you're doing inverted oil and fuel injection, then the flop tube is rather pointless IMHO. I'm sticking to positive G stuff in my 7.

5. Here's the decisions I've made prior & during wings:
Fuel caps? Deluxe locking from Van's (very nice!)
Fuel level senders? Float only
Fuel / vapor return provision? Plumb tanks per http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040704204434728
Landing / taxi lights? One rectangular Duckworks in each wing
Wing wiring? Conduit per Van's http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Wiring.pdf
AOA / LRI? Intend to build a Lift Reserve Indicator to install in right wing
Pitot? per plans
Flop Tube? No, but bought nicer mesh filtered pickups from Van's
Tank Vent? Intend to do it per RV-10 / Rocket, and oriented the 90 deg fitting accordingly.


No worries about the newbie questions, it is usually me asking them. I'm just feeling great that I can answer for once as small payback for the many who continue to help me.

George

AX-O said:

5) Last, any other things that I should consider while building my wing?

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Decide where you are going to put your pitot tube if, for example you are using a Dynon or something other than Van's stock and then decide if you want to be able to access it later. Unless it is right in one of the inspection panel bays, it may be difficult or impossible to service it in the future (either the air or electrical connections). I chose to mount my Dynon pitot w/AOA in the same bay as Van's pitot. (Dynon's generic suggestion is to put it there or just outboard of the bellcrank but I didn't want to have to route around the bellcrank and, more importantly, I didn't want a tie down to have the potential to snag the pitot. I do want to be able to service it later, however, so I added an inspection panel to that bay per my tech counselor's suggestion. It was really easy, but is easiest to do before you rivet the bottom skin, at least if you want that inspection panel to look like the others. Hope this helps. Good luck.

More newbie questions

Happily, I find myself on the verge of faxing an order for the standard RV-8 wing kit and I've got a couple of newbie questions myself. Van's must be very busy these days. In the past, such questions were answered in hours, now it can be much longer before e-mail queries are answered. So I'll post a few questions here while awaiting word from the factory.

#1. I prefer the old style flat top wing tips to the newer sheared style. Is the older tip design still available?

#2. Planning on installing a Dynon....can its optional AOA pitot be teed into and also used with more conventional (backup) steam gauges? In other words, is this the only pitot I will need? Is the promised heated pitot from Dynon now available?

#3. Can I include several accessory items on the wing kit order form that I know I will eventually install and be included in the wing kit crates in an effort to save on future shipping and handling fees? I ask because I could have saved a lot of money in s/h fees over time had I known what accessories to order in advance and not bought piece-meal when I built my 6A. As an example, I paid Van $207 in handling fees alone over a 4 year period. Shipping fees for all items exceeded 2K by a substantial margin.

#4. As far as that goes, is there any price advantage as far as shipping costs are concerned to just go ahead and order the fuselage kit at the same time?

#5. Since the era of prepunched matched hole technology is upon us, is there any technical reason why one could not build the fuselage and finishing kit before starting work on the wing kit?

I purchased an installation kit for a TruTrak autopilot. I mounted the bracket in the wing and ran wires for the servo. I probably won't purchase the ap until after it flies, but when I do, all I have to do is bolt in the servo and plug in the cable.

Hope this helps.

I agree with the other answers given so far.

One additional data point: CreativAir is now selling HID wing tip landing and taxi lights, and soon a mounting kit for them. That should provide plenty of light. www.creativair.com

Rick6a said:

#2. Planning on installing a Dynon....can its optional AOA pitot be teed into and also used with more conventional (backup) steam gauges? In other words, is this the only pitot I will need? Is the promised heated pitot from Dynon now available?

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One pitot tube can feed more than one instrument. Last I checked, Dynon's heated pitot still isn't available (been 3 years in development so far).

#3. Can I include several accessory items on the wing kit order form that I know I will eventually install and be included in the wing kit crates in an effort to save on future shipping and handling fees?

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The wing crate is packed pretty full. Some small stuff might fit.

Don't know about your other questions.

Dave

The FAA just emailed me the Experimental/Amateur Built Aircraft Checklist. The requirements are long. Here is the email and the section for IFR certification.

91.205(d) equipment for IFR operation does not mention a heated pitot tube, but 23.1323 certification rules for type certificated airplanes requires a heated pitot for IFR and an indication system is required by 23.1326.

An Experimental airplane is not subject to 23 certification requirements, but the certificating entity ( FAA inspector or DAR) may require it if you intend to operate IFR, before he will issue an airworthiness certificate.

From a safety stand point I would follow the 23 certification requirements if you intend to operate IFR.

attached is a checklist that we use to certificate experimental aircraft, and for IFR operation it lists a heated pitot tube.

IFR Requirements Day & Night VFR, plus:
____ Working two-way radio (See Checklist explanations Page)
____ Gyroscopic rate of turn indicator (Turn & Bank or Turn Coordinator)
____ Slip / Skid indicator
____ Sensitive altimeter
____ Artificial horizon
____ Directional gyro
____ Clock
____ Vacuum gauge, if vacuum powered, or volt and amp meter, if electric (See Checklist Explanations Page)
____ Heated Pitot
____ Generator or alternator
____ Alternate Static Source (See Checklist explanations Page)

Rick6a said:

#5. Since the era of prepunched matched hole technology is upon us, is there any technical reason why one could not build the fuselage and finishing kit before starting work on the wing kit?

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On the old fuse you need the wing spar center section to get very far on the fuse. I would think even with the matched fuse it would be the same.

briand said:

On the old fuse you need the wing spar center section to get very far on the fuse. I would think even with the matched fuse it would be the same.

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My thinking is predicated on ordering the wing kit and the fuselage kit at the same time. Van's confirmed to me that shipping costs to my zip code would be $320 for the wing kit alone, $301 for the fuselage kit alone or $450 if both are shipped at the same time.

Shipping

Obviously I'm in NZ so shipping is a big factor for me. I try to get as much sent to Vans as possible and included all in one shipment. I'm saving hard at the moment so I can order fuselage kit, accessories, grove airfoil landing gear, Tom Clarke fastback kit and Classic Aero seats. I'm hoping to get all this lot sent to Vans and then shipped here. It's a bit of a cost and project management kind of exercise. It also means extra delay since I have to save more money to cover it all. BUT, I roughly calculated a potential couple of thousand NZ dollars in freight, GST & customs charges doing it this way.

With my wing kit I also ordered accessories from Vans (conduit, lighting, proseal, etc, etc), and the tanks built by Evans Aviation were shipped in there, along with some additional tools from Avery.

Of course, frustration of having nothing to build for a few months might get the better of me and maybe I'll end up ordering stuff separately anyway. I'm trying my very best not to take on finance: gonna need that joker for the engine!

Cheers,

As my question would be pretty near this thread let's keep this going even it's hardly going to help the AX-O anymore...

grjtucson said:

1. No need to decide now, you'll just be running conduit for wiring. If you follow Van's file on conduit I suspect it will cover whatever you end up with: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Wiring.pdf

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Does Van's provide these conduits with wing kit? As far as I have been able to fiqure out, they come with wiring kit. But I quess it would be easiest put them when wings are still open? So ordering some nylon corrugated tube (Van's Part Number = DUCT NT5/8-50) with wing kit would be bad at all?

The corrugated conduit does not come with the wing kit ... I ordered separately and installed before the bottom skins went on...

T.

Heated pitot not needed?

Interesting. I had always assumed that a heated pitot was required for an IFR experimental bird but never considered that we don't technically have to follow Part 23. A definitive answer from some DARs would be nice here. I'm in a similar situation where I'll have a full glass panel, GPS etc, and airspeed is about as interesting as dirt for 99% of the flying I do. Even in the highly unlikely case that I accidentally fly into icing conditions and loose it in hard IMC, IMHO flying "by the numbers" really is good enough to be within a couple of knots. For VFR flight the only instrument I glance at is the altimeter from time to time (and how do you get pitot icing in VFR conditions anyhow?).

It would be great savings in terms of expense and more importantly WEIGHT to do without a heated pitot (smaller alternator, smaller battery, less wiring etc). I was just about to order a pitot too. I'm anxious to hear what the real story with this is.

The DAR does NOT certify the aircraft for night/IFR. That is up to the pilot. Your operating limitations issued by the DAR simply states that for night/IFR operations, you must comply with FAR 91.205. I don't think that 91.205 lists a heated pitot as a requirement.