Reno Air Race Oops

Sunday while visiting with a friend in the Sport Class hanger at the Reno Air Races he told us about an incident that happened on Saturday. While servicing the oxygen on the P-51 Merlins Magic somebody made a pretty bad mistake. The bottle was a built in and apparently WW11 vintage, composite/glass, or whatever they used back then and was rated at 400 or so PSI. While filling the bottle to 2000lbs it exploded and blew the airframe into two pieces right behind the pilots seat. What a freak thing to happen!
Luckily nobody was hurt, not even the person who was servicing the bottle.
The plane was tucked away and out of view Sunday so I didn't see the damage. Most likely the pictures will be hitting the net soon.

Other news is that a Lancair took the gold with the Nemesis NXT not to far behind. The thunder mustang was pushing hard in second for most of the race but had to pull up and out about 2 laps before it ended. In the Unlimited Gold Sept. Fury won with Strega (P51) had to mayday and pull out after 5 laps.

The fastest lap time of the day was an F-18 Hornet that did one lap for a demonstration and ran 679mph. He was basically in a steep turn for most of the course. I don't think I ever even saw him with wings level.

All in all a neat day. For those of you who haven't attended it would be a great trip in your RV.

What was the word on why Darryl Greenamyer did not race? The Sport Class guys had it easy this year! Sad to hear that Strega had to pull out again this year. Someone needs to keep those round engine guys worried. Sad day in Merlin land.

Poor Merlin's Magic. First a blown engine and then a blown fuselage. She was sitting in the pits on Sunday and I had a chance to look the sorry bird over. She wasn't exaclty torn in half, but it did look like something definitely blew up inside the fuselage. Big hole torn in both sides of the fuselage and the rear fuselage beneath the horizontal stab. was pretty bent and twisted.
Darryl did race in the Sport Gold Sunday and he won it ( no surprise there) with Sharp in 2nd and Parker in his Mustang in third. Parker had 2nd but had to pull back and take 3rd for some reason. Too bad Dago is still in hiding and Rare Bear ate a valve during qualifying. They really battled it out 2003 and put on a great show!
I agree, that f-18 was awesome going around the pylons! I really enjoy watching the Cessna jet fly the pylons though..just looks so funny to see a biz jet rounding the pylons! If you haven't been it's definitely a must see next year!-Todd

Not exactly, but close. Darryl's plane did cross the line first in the Sport Gold, but it was being piloted by Rod Von Grote. They made a big deal out of the airplane being equiped with telemetry so the ground crew, including Darryl, could tell Rod how much to push it.

I didn't say he won the race because he cut a pylon, which dropped him into second behind John Sharp in Nemesis. I'm still not sure why Darryl didn't fly.

Not so fast in the Sport Class

I read this in a couple of places on the internet so I assume there is some truth to it.


Bob Axsom

Ohh, your right. Now that I think about it I do remember seeing John on the fire engine. I as wondering what he was doing there. Thats strange that Darryl didn't race. I was in the pits all day Sunday so I didn't get a chance to hear if the announcer said anything regarding it. Hope all is ok with him.

Reno Air Race results

Folks,
This event is a must see for those that have never been. As far as I know, these races are the fastest motor sport racing event in the world. It's also a great place to fly your RV to, and it is also easy to become a repeat attender. Although you cannot land at Reno-Stead Airport (K4SD) due to the TFR where the races are actually held (unless you are a competitor), there are a number of other airports fairly closeby (KRNO, KTRK, KCXP) that you can land at and rent a car. Fairly cheap rooms, eats, and gambling in the city of Reno also.... And of course the sound of those Merlins and huge radials being pushed faster than they were designed to go....WOW!
The airshow segment of the races always draws the top acts, (Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Snowbirds). During the sunday show, we even got a flyby from John Travolta in his B-707 as he was headed into Reno. Too cool!

http://www.airrace.org/indexJS.php

I've listed the top 3 finishers in the Unlimted and Sport Gold races from Sundays Reno Air Races. You can find the official race results here:

http://www.airrace.org/2006ResultsQuery.php

Sport-Gold (Top 3 Finishers)

1. Nemesis NXT - Jon Sharp 368.389 mph
2. Lancair Legacy - Rod Von Grote 358.557 mph (cut pylon 6, lap 1, 12- second penalty)
3.Thunder Mustang - John Parker - 350.340 mph

Unlimited-Gold (Top 3 Finishers)

1. September Fury - Michael Brown - 481.619 mph
2. Dreadnaught - Matt Jackson - 453.559 mph
3. Czech Mate - Sherman Smoot - 445.817 mph
(After closing to 2nd place Strega Mayday'd out in lap 5)

Hope to see you there next year...

Joe Blank
RV-6
N6810B

Need Pictures!

I'd like to see some pictures of the damaged P-51. Anyone got some?

Joe,

I'm sure it was an oversight, but you didn't post the results of the best class.

Friend, mentor and RV-8 builder Gene McNeely walked away with 3rd place Gold.

T-6 Class, Gold:
1: #6, Six Cat, Nick Macy, 235.609
2: #43, Midnight Miss III, Dennis Buehn, 229.100
3: #90, Undecided II, Gene McNeely, 222.926

n8zg said:

Joe,

I'm sure it was an oversight, but you didn't post the results of the best class.

Friend, mentor and RV-8 builder Gene McNeely walked away with 3rd place Gold.

T-6 Class, Gold:
1: #6, Six Cat, Nick Macy, 235.609
2: #43, Midnight Miss III, Dennis Buehn, 229.100
3: #90, Undecided II, Gene McNeely, 222.926

Click to expand...

Didn't know. My apologies and congrats to Gene! My questions is, when are they going to open up an 'RV' class? They'll probably have to add another day to the races and more ramp space for 400-500 RV's though ....

Joe

rv6ejguy said:

What was the word on why Darryl Greenamyer did not race? The Sport Class guys had it easy this year! Sad to hear that Strega had to pull out again this year. Someone needs to keep those round engine guys worried. Sad day in Merlin land.

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Ross,
Darryl is going into retirement. No real problems, he's just getting older. His plane was flying. The nxt finally showed some of it's promise, flying much better. I was there crewing for Scott Alair flying sport class #77 "Obsession" a beautiful, but stock Legacy. Sadly Scott was DQ'ed Sunday morning by the race officials for an infraction that I certainly couldn't see. Hope the weniees haven't taken over Reno too. I thought John Parker might take it all this year in the Thunder Mustang, (sport class) but he had problems Saturday.
While I love the sound of a Merlin too, you better get used to the sound of a 3800 winning Reno. The Merlin is simply pushed too hard to produce the HP of the much larger Pratt. Plus there are many more parts available for the more recently produced round engines. The sad destruction of Merlin's Magic was caused by a oxygen cylinder bursting! The onboard O2 system in MM was an older 400 psi type. The ramp guys hooked up the 3000 psi cylinder! There is an amazing amount of stored energy in a pressure cylinder, MM's tail was almost blown off. (no fire or other resultant explosion thank god!) I was on the flightline for the Silver Sport class race when the cylinder exploded and almost dove to the ground when it went off.
Bill Jepson

Rotary10-RV said:

Ross,
I thought John Parker might take it all this year in the Thunder Mustang, (sport class) but he had problems Saturday.
While I love the sound of a Merlin too, you better get used to the sound of a 3800 winning Reno. The Merlin is simply pushed too hard to produce the HP of the much larger Pratt. Plus there are many more parts available for the more recently produced round engines.
Bill Jepson

Click to expand...

Looks like Parker went way faster than last year. Did they have nitrous or the much hoped for supercharger on the V12 this year? Love the sound of that thing.

I think the Furies other than Dreadnought use Wright 3350s? I don't agree that the Merlin is tapped out. Ever since Dwight Thorn retired, the other Merlin builder's engines have popped like corks. Thorn was the Merlin master and built the most powerful and reliable race Merlins ever seen/ heard. These were the most awesome sounding engines ever conceived by mankind IMHO. Can he be bribed back to build a couple more for Strega? I know the money is not really there but with some new CNC'd parts, materials, EFI, methanol and turbos replacing the superchargers, they could make more power, more reliably on less boost and less thermal stress. At this point, I guess it really wouldn't be a Merlin anymore. I'm game to start if someone comes up with a couple $M.

I hate to see a field with no pointy noses!

The engine builder is perhaps more important than the pilot or airframe at Reno these days.

Look at the specs, it is pretty obvious

Could it be one engine is twice the displacement?



The Wright is 3350 cu inches. Last versions (DC-7) where rated at 3,400 hp @ 59.5 inch boost, which was not working that hard for that engine. The earlier versions where rated at 2,200 to 2,700 HP. Fuel distribution problems where solved in 1944 with fuel injection. Thru the development life of the engine, the typical engine life / TBO was typically about 3,500 hours. (Much of the history and experience of all Lycs comes from this Legacy, so please don't get me started how crude Lycs are.)




Merlin: Displacement 1,647 cu inches and last official rating 1,565 hp (1,170 kW) at 3,000 rpm at 12,250 ft (3,740 m)

So just on paper you can see twice the displacement. The 3350 is just chugging along, and the Merlin has to scream. It reminds me of the Lycoming 360 cu-in (5.9 liter), verses a Subaru or other alternatives with much smaller displacements. The hot rod guys had it figured out long ago:

"There ain't no replacement for displacement"

A big engine running easy or small engine wound up like a watch. Also, even though the water cooling system drag on the P-51 is as good as you can get, the cowl on the Bearcat is very efficient. Any parallels to RV's with Ly comings and Subaru's? Sure

rv6ejguy said:

Looks like Parker went way faster than last year. Did they have nitrous or the much hoped for supercharger on the V12 this year? Love the sound of that thing.

I think the Furies other than Dreadnought use Wright 3350s? I don't agree that the Merlin is tapped out. Ever since Dwight Thorn retired, the other Merlin builder's engines have popped like corks. Thorn was the Merlin master and built the most powerful and reliable race Merlins ever seen/ heard. These were the most awesome sounding engines ever conceived by mankind IMHO. Can he be bribed back to build a couple more for Strega? I know the money is not really there but with some new CNC'd parts, materials, EFI, methanol and turbos replacing the superchargers, they could make more power, more reliably on less boost and less thermal stress. At this point, I guess it really wouldn't be a Merlin anymore. I'm game to start if someone comes up with a couple $M.I hate to see a field with no pointy noses!
The engine builder is perhaps more important than the pilot or airframe at Reno these days.

Click to expand...

You are right 3350'S. Merlin parts are gettin' few and far between. Your right about the posibilitiy of new CNC'ed parts, but I can't think of a more limited market I think there were two types of bottom end as well, one used a forked rod, like a Harley. The other used a master and secondary rod like a radial. The latter seems to hold up better. Merlin's Magic blown example used the forked rod. (for those that are confused by these references, the Merlin didn't have offset cylinder banks like a regular V-8.) I don't know which were made in greater quantities. I love the mustangs too but they need an active (read money spending) team. Also be aware that the engine in September Fury sounded reallllly strong. Lots of work done there.
Bill

Size does matter

Rotary10-RV said:

You are right 3350'S. Merlin parts are gettin' few and far between. Your right about the posibilitiy of new CNC'ed parts, but I can't think of a more limited market I think there were two types of bottom end as well, one used a forked rod, like a Harley. The other used a master and secondary rod like a radial. The latter seems to hold up better. Merlin's Magic blown example used the forked rod. (for those that are confused by these references, the Merlin didn't have offset cylinder banks like a regular V-8.) I don't know which were made in greater quantities. I love the mustangs too but they need an active (read money spending) team. Also be aware that the engine in September Fury sounded reallllly strong. Lots of work done there.
Bill

Click to expand...

I don't agree with respect. No matter how much money, see comments about displacement above. The R-3350 does not have to even work hard to make the same HP. Sure it may be "tuned" but a stock R-3350 makes more HP than a wild strung out short fuse Merlin.

Reliability is key to winning as well.

As far as drag, the P-51 does have a smaller fuselage, with the in-line/V-12. I am not saying the P-51 can't win but the equation is simple, more thrust (HP), less drag. It is hard to beat an engine that is twice as big on a very low drag airframe. May be, just may be they figured out a lot about engines and airframes back in the 1940's that still apply today.

As far as CNC or how ever they make the parts, I am not sure that's the key to more power, but one thing for sure is they can't keep blowing up engines, there are just so many parts. They will need to make parts to just keep them flying, much less faster. I think the rods are forged steel.

If you could just whittle some better rods out, that would be fine, but at the RPM's they turn, the recip mass, envelope, there is only so much you can do. A new design, materials or CNC machines will not make it a much better part.

I think people just forget that this stuff, even old, was the state of the art for the time and still holds it own, even today. The limitations are in the physics, which has not changed. That is why the Lycoming is hard to improve on, the laws of physics and design parameters have not changed. New manufacturing techniques can only do so much, mostly in production volumn not better quality. Heck they made precision watches in the early 20th century. There is no substitute for workmanship, which is timeless.

Bob Axsom said:

I read this in a couple of places on the internet so I assume there is some truth to it.

Sport Class

First-place finisher Rod Von Grote in Race 33 cut a pylon to give Jon Sharp in "Nemesis" the win with an official speed of 360.389 mph. The cut put Von Grote in second with an official speed of 358.557.​

Bob Axsom

Click to expand...

As a small, but pointed point of reference. Rod Von Grote, ran the fastest time ever in Darryl's Legacy. In the Gold, which he lost because of a pylon cut, he was running some 380+mph laps. He finished the race *way* ahead of Sharpe, and Parker, but 12 seconds is a huge penalty at those speeds. While he was easily 1/8 to 1/4 of a lap ahead, that still didn't cover the 12 seconds of penalty.

They had agreed the night before that they were going to either win or break the engine. Normally, they run about 62" of MAP in that IO-550 twin turbo, but during the first 2 to 3 laps, while making sure they stayed ahead of the TM (when its SC belt was still functioning), they ran close to 66-67" of MP. It was during those times that they turned those fastest laps.

We'll see what next year brings. Rumors suggest that the class will be split into an "unlimited" version and the others. The unlimited sport class may get up to 720 CI (it's 650 currently), and the use of NOS.

Meanwhile, even tho Sharpe won, he did not show any significant potential in the NXT. All week he only ran in the 325 range, while the Legacy and the TM were turning 350's. He then won at 350. I later heard that he was running NA, and not a turbo Lycoming. But I don't know where reality is around this stuff.

I also hear a rumor that if needed, the Legacy could run up to 80" of MAP, but that engine probably wouldn't be long for this life at those pressures.

Either way, it was a fun week, we'll see what next year brings.

I was about 30 feet away from Merlins Magic when the tank blew, I ducked! When I looked up I saw peices of stuff flyin about 40 feet in the air. I ran over to see what happened and the O2 was still pouring out. By the time I figured out everyone was ok, and remembered to pull out the camera there was a bunch of people there and the view wasn't so good. I'll say that she is hurt bad, looks like a broken back as when the tailwheel collapsed the tail slammed to the ground and I figure the damage to the stringers and fuselage skin was so bad it bent the rear fuselage pretty bad.

Rotary10-RV...I am friends with Mike Barnes and was following Scott, what was the infraction? You guys were running real good, I was disappointed to not see you in Sunday's show.

Rotary10-RV said:

You are right 3350'S. Merlin parts are gettin' few and far between. Your right about the posibilitiy of new CNC'ed parts, but I can't think of a more limited market

Click to expand...

Naw, any Merlin or airframe part is a phone call away. Nearly every part in a Mustang is being produced today, from scratch, by a number of shops. I have a friend who has a D model. Parts are not a problem as he has another TF-51D going together from scratch. There are enough spares in Mike Nixon's engine shop in Tehachapi, CA to build a hundred engines from scratch. Jack Roush also makes all sorts of new Merlin parts. I have another good friend that maintains an F8F, P-51D, F-86, and a T-6. Parts are only hard to come by for the 86 and the Bearcat; in fact parts are non-existant and are only available by swapping/bartering from other owners of those types. I've been fortunate enough to spend many hours working on these airplanes, they are amazing machines. I helped do an engine swap in May on the Mustang, it took us a week to get everything done, we were humpin the whole time as the airplane had to be flying by the following Saturday to overfly the Indy 500 on Sunday. What's even more impressive to me is how these aircraft could have been maintained outside in inclement weather by tired war-weary ground crews working 18 hour shifts. Heck I was wore out every night working in an airconditioned hangar. Makes you really appreciate the effort it took by those who kept these aircraft flying in times of war.

Regards,
Bob

Rare Bear Strategy

About a year and a half ago while my wife was attending a tax seminar at the Hilton in Reno I made my way out to Stead Field for a day of tire kicking. I met several nice RV'ers among others, but eventually ended up in the Rare Bears hanger with a beer in my hand. On this visit they let me sit in the Bear and close the canopy which was great. Sitting there in this beast I was thankful that it was safely parked and that there was no chance that it was going anywhere. Here are some observations for anybody that is curious about the airplane and what it feels like. The first thing that I noticed is the height of the fuse while stepping from the wing over the side into the cockpit. I'm 6'2" and I had to use both hands to keep from high centering myself while one leg was inside and one was on the wing. Once sitting the view out the front was the next item of note. Simply, there isn't one! There were two prop blade tips sticking up over the montrous cowl and then there was the top of the hanger doors. Without question there is no forward visibility. Once settling in a little bit the cockpit became the focus of my attention and while the radios were modern the rest was very old and looked to be of some concern to its servicability. For instance the hose that hooked to the oxygen mask was original and was rotten. This was typical of the interior. This machine is exactly that, a machine. It didn't appear loved or pampered. The canopy was shortened and replaced with very thin plexi. It was so thin that it surprised me that they flew with it. It is a guess, but it would surprise me if it was more than 3/16" thick. As I sat there the pictures of RV'ers who had experienced bird strikes crossed my mind and they are flying nowhere near 500mph. This struck me as something that exhibited bunches of intestional fortitude to fly behind at these speeds. Also there are fresh air vents down near the shins that are closed off. I was told that years ago when Lyle Shelton was racing the Bear his fire suit leg almost caught on fire and his leg got pretty hot underneath because the heat coming from in front of the firewall is excessive in the race configuration. The cockpit is supposed to be around 130 degrees F while the plane is being raced. One of the mechanics said that when John Penney was standing with a crew member on each side of him after winning two years ago with his arms around their shoulders it was because he didn't have the strenght to stand on his own yet. He said the G's and the heat leave him physically spent. The stripes on the airframe sides are supposed to go out of alignment between the cowl and the fuse at race power by several inches from the extreme torque. After hearing all of this I asked if there is a strategy to this racing since they race Wed.-Sunday with the Sunday race counting for the event. They laughed and said that their strategy was pretty simple and goes something like this.

For the most part the Bear, and the other radials can run the power settings that they race at more reliably than the Merlins. They said that if you look at the years when they are racing the speeds are up to 50mph faster than the years when they are not. They claimed that this is because the mustang owners aren't willing to kill their engines, or they are less eager to push them to destruction to race other mustangs. The plan for the Bear is to push the mustangs all week to stress the engines and break the ones that they can as the week progresses. They figure in order to beat them the winning mustang will destroy their engine, it is just whether it will last for the length of the race. They said that as the race progresses the top mustangs which have been Dago Red and Strega historically will start to climb and dive on the course which indicates cooling problems. It is at this point that if close, with two or less laps left the Bear gets a little shot of nitrous. Now when the mustangs are at their most critical moment they must run even harder to win. It is at this point that the rods start to come out of the cases and cowls and the mayday is called. It doesn't always work they said, but they also said it is a 1/2 million decision for the mustang pilot whether to eat his engine up to win a small prize compared to the price of the engine. An example this would be about 3 or 4 years ago when Dago won the race and the Bear was running 72% power to finish a not to distant second. They were also having a problem and couldn't make any power. After the race Dago took off to try to set a new record on the course because the conditions were so good and they had run over 500mph already. Not long after rotation the engine gave up. Exactly per the plan Dago had eaten itself alive, just not fast enough that year for the Bear to win. This year on lap 5 after some climbing and diving gyrations by Strega it mayday'd on lap 5. This year it wasn't the Bear, but it was a radial. Both mustangs in the Gold race this year mayday'd and last year only one qualified and it mayday'd also. It is looking like the Bear has written the book on how to get mustangs out of air racing, or at least the gold race. Now if you don't have a radial the odds are you won't finish. Time will tell. Regardless, I love watching this!!!

Best,

Interesting stuff guys. So the TM had the much needed supercharger, that explains the big speed jump. I say the Conti and Lyco days are numbered in the Sport Class soon. (Out on a limb).

Sharp had a turbo Lyco last year as I spent an hour looking at it with cowlings off. I don't think he could run those speeds without turbos. The Legacy is a very slippery airplane with probably the highest tech Conti ever built. If Sharp can run 350mph atmo, he'll obliterate the field with turbos.

Historically the best races and fastest speeds have been when a few pointy noses push Rare Bear and the other round nose aircraft. I hope some will be back next year. When nobody pushes the Bear, he pulls back the throttle also and the excitement is over. They have had their share of melted pistons and dropped valves when pushed hard. The Merlins have won a good portion of the Gold races at Reno over the years but with Dwight Thorn out of the picture, I expect wins will be harder to come by for the V12s.

Small engine stuff with technology can whup the big radials, you just need the right guys on the project and the $$$. This has been shown in many other forms of motorsport (IMSA, F1, Trans Am, Champ Car, endurance racing etc). I watched the 2.1L AAR Toyotas slay the best 6L V8s and 3.5L F1 atmo engines race after race even after inlet restrictors were mandated for them in GTP. The big engined guys always laugh at first and end up crying the blues later. Every time.

The Merlins run up to 125 inches and are highly stressed all right. The main problems are reduction drive ratios not available to safely run the props (rpms around 4000), bearings shedding layers, pistons failing from poor mixture distribution, connecting rods, flexing cranks and supercharger drives. Lots of areas to address. The Griffon has shown great promise in the past with it's much bigger displacement, we need a couple of those back out to stir things up. Variety of hardware and sounds makes it interesting.

The 2 stage supercharger is the big hp killer. I bet that unit is sucking up 1000 hp at 125 inches. Get some turbos on there. The new Garretts can spin up the same MP way more efficiently and reliably. These lads need to think outside the box a bit more. Building the same engine that blew up last time and crossing your fingers is a poor substitute for a proper engine development program.

I second the notion that these guys are EXCEPTIONAL pilots. When you watch the speeds, altitude and propwash these guys fly at/in, it makes you appreciate their skills. Awesome stuff.

If you've never been to Reno, you are missing a show like no other. The sights and sounds are like nowhere else. Fire up the RV and put the 2007 race on your calendar.

Long live the Mouse Motor!!

aadamson said:

Meanwhile, even tho Sharpe won, he did not show any significant potential in the NXT. All week he only ran in the 325 range, while the Legacy and the TM were turning 350's. He then won at 350. I later heard that he was running NA, and not a turbo Lycoming. But I don't know where reality is around this stuff.

Either way, it was a fun week, we'll see what next year brings.

Click to expand...

Alan,
I can assure you that the NXT was running 2 turbos and intercoolers as I was standing next to the plane as they buttoned up the cowling. The speed of the modded Legacy's is amazing though. The engine setup on Darryl's plane is impressive and a classic example of "stuffing 10# of S**T in a 5# bag! The anti detonation fluid and spraybar cooling water fill the entire passenger bay of the plane. Needed to handle the VERY HIGH boost they're running.
Bill Jepson

gmcjetpilot said:

I don't agree with respect. No matter how much money, see comments about displacement above. The R-3350 does not have to even work hard to make the same HP. Sure it may be "tuned" but a stock R-3350 makes more HP than a wild strung out short fuse Merlin.

Click to expand...

George,
Just curious, did you or did you not read the earlier post in which I mentioned that the Merlins were getting pounded because the 3350's were twice their displacement? The engine in September Fury was pounding the other 3350 ci engines AND Merlins. I know a good running engine when I hear one. The mustangs days are somewhat numbered at Reno. I would like to see a radical departure like the Pond Racer again. As an aside the PR was going to run rotaries originally, but when Nissan came through with sponsorship they switched the engines to the turbo V-6's. They were a plumbers nighmare and wound too tight as well. Too bad.
Bill Jepson

oldscuts said:

I was about 30 feet away from Merlins Magic when the tank blew, I ducked! When I looked up I saw peices of stuff flyin about 40 feet in the air. I ran over to see what happened and the O2 was still pouring out. By the time I figured out everyone was ok, and remembered to pull out the camera there was a bunch of people there and the view wasn't so good. I'll say that she is hurt bad, looks like a broken back as when the tailwheel collapsed the tail slammed to the ground and I figure the damage to the stringers and fuselage skin was so bad it bent the rear fuselage pretty bad.

Rotary10-RV...I am friends with Mike Barnes and was following Scott, what was the infraction? You guys were running real good, I was disappointed to not see you in Sunday's show.

Click to expand...

The race officials waited until Sunday MORNING to say that Scott had somehow cut in too soon after the guide pylon. No indication that there was ANY problem Saturday. (Nor could I really see any problem) No indication that anyone protested, the stewards decided themselves I believe. Very low class IMHO. Scott is a low buck guy who really has been straining the budget too "follow the dream." I didn't like the decision of course, but the way it was done seemed very vidictive, no real explaination, just, "You can't run cowboy, sorry" No appeal, every thing to that point wasted. Also the fact that while it isn't much Scott lost out on about 2K in prize money that would have helped pay for the weekend. Leaves a bad taste in your mouth on what would have otherwise been a real good weekend.
Bill

Rotary10-RV said:

George,
I would like to see a radical departure like the Pond Racer again. As an aside the PR was going to run rotaries originally, but when Nissan came through with sponsorship they switched the engines to the turbo V-6's. They were a plumbers nighmare and wound too tight as well. Too bad.
Bill Jepson

Click to expand...

The Pond was very cool and I saw it run. Probably the wrong airframe layout though. I'm thinking a push pull like the DO 335 would have reduced the flat plate area substantially and it would have gone faster. The Nissan VG30s in IMSA form were bulletproof and powerful but the switch to mismatched turbos, small intercoolers, different rads and methanol fuel gave it dreadful reliability. I have never seen cowlings packed so tight in my life. You couldn't get your hand in anywhere.

The turbo technology at the time was not suitable for a Wankel effort and even 26B 4 rotor naturally aspirated engines would not have produced anywhere near enough hp to be competitive. It was a concept which looked good on paper but not enough time was spent working out the bugs. Unfortunately when Rick Brickert was killed in the Pond, the project ended also.

Interestingly there was a push/ pull Wankel powered racer started many years ago. I haven't heard of anything new in the last few years about it but it looked like a great concept.

In the Sport Class, I look forward to the Algie LP1 with Chev LS turbo engine. This might be ready to race in 2008.

A day late dollar short again

Rotary10-RV said:

George,
Just curious, did you or did you not read the earlier post in which I mentioned that the Merlins were getting pounded because the 3350's were twice their displacement? The engine in September Fury was pounding the other 3350 ci engines AND Merlins. I know a good running engine when I hear one. The mustangs days are somewhat numbered at Reno. I would like to see a radical departure like the Pond Racer again. As an aside the PR was going to run rotaries originally, but when Nissan came through with sponsorship they switched the engines to the turbo V-6's. They were a plumbers nighmare and wound too tight as well. Too bad.
Bill Jepson

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Sorry I am always a day late and dollar short, you said it first. I was responding to the post directly above mine, so he did not read your post either. Darn posters, rats, Doha!

I promise, I'll be sure to read your post first next time. Forgive my redundant post, at least I posted pretty pictures of engines.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see a modern Reno racer that is competitive, but the pond racer, not to steal your thunder, was not only tragic (RIP Rick Brickert), it was not really competitive and had lots of problems (cooling for one, like the P-51).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_Pond_Racer

See my previous post: "Ain't no replacement for displacement"

This brings up the auto engine thing we have fun debating all the time. The pond racer used a racing V6 turbo Nissan. Normally rated at less than 300 HP.

Honda, Lexus, Nissan and aerospace giant conglomerate Bombardier all have tried their hand in "modern" watercooled aircraft engine prototypes; all have abandoned the market (I think). Why? That's subject to conjector. Honda now makes 100% of the IRL (Indy car) engines (Toyota was not competitive), so they at least get some prestige and advertisement mileage out of it. It clearly is not money making for them. Honda spends 100's of millions to support racing. Does supporting racing make moms mini van engine better? I guess that is true. I don't fully buy it, but it may sell a few more Honda's or Acuras.

Production airplane engine's, is a loosing proposition to car manufactures. Would any big company do a Reno Racer engine? When the Pond crashed from an engine failure, I'm guessing Nissan felt the exposure was not a good thing, no doubt. All auto manufactures probably will not pursue factory airplane racing support for that reason alone. It will also not likely sell more cars. Hard to beat a +65 year old engine, the Wright R-3350, like the Lycoming, hard to beat. Old is not bad. : ) ha ha ha ha I love putting holes in the argument that Lycomings are OLD technology, which is a direct descendant of the Wright R-3350. If they are than why do they dominate in the 21st century. Talk is cheap, lets race. Car racing and airplane racing are two different things. Car race engines are awesome, IN CARS. They also get rebuilt sometimes every race, not with standing the Rally cars.


Was suppose to be rated at 1000hp a side but probably never made more than 600HP a side (1200 hp total). Even though the Bearcat is a big plane it is making the better part of 4000 hp? I am going to convert you do a BIG BORE air-cooled guy Mr. Rotary10-RV. What is the displacement of a rotary? Kidding, best of luck with your project. RV6ejguy is doing some cool stuff with his RV-10, Subaru. Its all good, just some are better.

rv6ejguy said:

Interesting stuff guys. So the TM had the much needed supercharger, that explains the big speed jump. I say the Conti and Lyco days are numbered in the Sport Class soon. (Out on a limb).

Small engine stuff with technology can whup the big radials, you just need the right guys on the project and the $$$. This has been shown in many other forms of motorsport (IMSA, F1, Trans Am, Champ Car, endurance racing etc). I watched the 2.1L AAR Toyotas slay the best 6L V8s and 3.5L F1 atmo engines race after race even after inlet restrictors were mandated for them in GTP. The big engined guys always laugh at first and end up crying the blues later. Every time.

Click to expand...

Why are Lycs and TCM days numbered? Seems like that is all that is in the class and winning. What you got? I hear that limb your standing on cracking.

Comments like, he could not win without a turbo is moot, it is racing. What ever "helpers" you put on a subaru or rotary, work on an aircraft Lyc or TCM engine just as well. The only diff is Lycs usually don't need it for daily flying. Many car engines in planes need a turbo or supercharger to keep up, at expense of weight, complexity and sometimes cooling problems. Hey! No one is running a Lyc IO-720, 8 cylinder, yet, or a turbo-ed the IO-720, yet.

The comment about small engine stuff technology can whoop big radials. ha ha ha ha ha. Spoken like a man with a small ahaa .......... 3.0L engine. Mine is bigger than yours. A Lyc 360 is almost 6 liters and twice the displacement, direct drive, low rpm. Ain't no replacement for displacement.