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left over angle & some advice

J

jwilbur

Well Known Member
Can someone tell me if there is any leftover 125 x 3/4 x 3/4 angle when you finish the rv10 fuse? And if so, how much? I'm thinking of redoing one of the longerons because I messed up a hole real bad while drilling.

While I'm here, I might as well ask for some advice. How did you drill this longeron to the gussett (page 29-9 step 3)? Basically, you have to drill 5 holes up from the bottom of the gussett into 1/8" angle and you can't see what you're doing - not to mention clamps interfering with your every move. I set up a mirror and used a 90 degree drill. ..... 4 of the holes went fine, but on one the drill wandered A LOT before I realized it, and the bit popped out of the longeron on the inboard edge. It's not easy at all drilling while looking through a mirror. .... Anyway, maybe I can deal with the issue by cleaning up the bad holes and using a doubler on the bottom of the gussett and on top of the angle. I'm sure this would be strong enough, but I'm not sure if nesting a section of angle into the damaged angle as a doubler will interfere with something later. Anyone remember?

Thanks,
 
I don't recall if I had any significant amount left over. If I did it certainly was not enough to re-do the entire f1046. Pictures will help in providing advice, but simply ordering some new angle from Vans, ACS, or Wicks, and fabricating a new gusset seems like the right thing to do based solely on your description. I believe I would pre-drill pilot holes in the 1046 prior to match drilling into the gusset.
 
I looked back into my construction log but I don't have much detail on this step (I got a lot done that day and my log had to summarize). However, my fuzzy memory tells me that not only did I pre-drill the gusset, but I also removed the skin once the longeron and gusset was clamped. Then I did my final drilling with a long big (angle attachments are hard for me to control). No mirrors or interference.
 
Bill.Peyton said:
I don't recall if I had any significant amount left over. If I did it certainly was not enough to re-do the entire f1046. Pictures will help in providing advice, but simply ordering some new angle from Vans, ACS, or Wicks, and fabricating a new gusset seems like the right thing to do based solely on your description. I believe I would pre-drill pilot holes in the 1046 prior to match drilling into the gusset.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's what I figured - about not having a lot of angle left over. I'm leaning toward correcting with doublers at the moment. The problem is that the holes are already in the gusset. You use those to match drill into the angle.
 
flion said:
I looked back into my construction log but I don't have much detail on this step (I got a lot done that day and my log had to summarize). However, my fuzzy memory tells me that not only did I pre-drill the gusset, but I also removed the skin once the longeron and gusset was clamped. Then I did my final drilling with a long big (angle attachments are hard for me to control). No mirrors or interference.
Click to expand...

I'll try it this way for the right side. I hesitated to take off the skin because That's one of the things I was using to clamp the angle to the right spot.

Thanks for the reply.
 
If my scrap bucket could talk you would hear about how many longerons and angle were removed and re-done properly. Last thing you want is to wonder if that patch or repair was the best thing to do. For me, it was better to just replace something as critical as those.
 
CharlieWaffles said:
If my scrap bucket could talk you would hear about how many longerons and angle were removed and re-done properly. Last thing you want is to wonder if that patch or repair was the best thing to do. For me, it was better to just replace something as critical as those.
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Thanks Mark,

Just replacing everything with any damage at all would be best, of course, but I think sometimes a good, solid repair is appropriate depending on circumstances. Opinions may differ but in general I'm finding that a lot of errors are easily repaired without too much worry.
 
Joe,
I believe that the edge distance created by the mis-drilled holes in the longeron is insufficient. If this were my build, all of the parts would have been replaced. This is a major structural member. Just like many others, I have my own pile of oops scraps! I would run this by Vans tech support for another opinion. Trust me, when you look back, you will regret not replacing this very inexpensive piece.
 
Bill.Peyton said:
Joe,
I believe that the edge distance created by the mis-drilled holes in the longeron is insufficient. If this were my build, all of the parts would have been replaced. This is a major structural member. Just like many others, I have my own pile of oops scraps! I would run this by Vans tech support for another opinion. Trust me, when you look back, you will regret not replacing this very inexpensive piece.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bill. I appreciate the note and advice. The top doubler is to deal with the bad edge distance. Do you think this is insufficient to reduce stress on the damaged hole?

I'm still debating whether or not to scrap it and the gusset and redo. But it's a tough spot to drill and I might have the same issue again. And you can believe me. I've already got my own sizable pile of scrap. Redoing something isn't my problem here. I'll redo if not convinced of a good repair. ... Parts are cheap, as you say, but shipping charges are very high. And in general I just think it's wise to consider a repair before sending something off to the scrap heap.
 
Joe,
I purchased extra sheets of aluminum both 6061 and 2024. I also purchased various angle and hinge material. That way it was easy to re manufacture a piece. The longeron that you are contemplating repairing is a major element of the structure. Pick your repairs carefully, and you will sleep better down the road! Anytime you are in doubt, have your EAA tech counselor drop by and take a look. I can tell by your words you have some doubt about proceeding with the repair. I have been there and it took many times longer for me to replace what could have been done easily if I had just backed off and listened to the little guy in my head!
 
Bill.Peyton said:
... I can tell by your words you have some doubt about proceeding with the repair. I have been there and it took many times longer for me to replace what could have been done easily if I had just backed off and listened to the little guy in my head!
Click to expand...

Yup. Trying to discern when that voice is paranoia about every little scratch or legitimate. This one seems like a good candidate for scrap and replace. But still, if I find out the repair is acceptable I gain some confidence and if it isn't I learn I was right to pay attention to my doubts. Either way, I have to defer this one to the experts so I sent a full write-up to Van's with 25 8x10 color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one telling what each one was to be used as evidence against me.

Here's to flying a safe aircraft in two years,
 
At this point in the build, I'd order new parts. Also ensure you have a long drill bit, a snake with short bits and a compact 90 head attachment. That repair, even with Van's blessing would be a no-go due to my painted lightweight interior. Now if the plane was already riveted together, I may look into repairing per Van's.
 
I suggest you move on to another item and wait for the new parts to arrive. Focus your energy moving forward, you will be glad you did!
 
Uncle

" ... I will live in the past, the present, and the future ... The spirits of all three shall strive within me ... and the Christmas time be praised for this! I say it on my knees ..." - Mr. Scrooge after seeing the error of his ways.

OK. I've succumbed to the obvious. After a good night's sleep and speaking with my Tech counselor, I'm just reordering everything including the gussets and I'm going to do again. So Van's if you read this just disregard the email I sent you with all the color glossy pictures. By the time you see it I'll have reordered everything anyway.

I asked for criticism in this post and I genuinely appreciate it. It's a little embarrassing to realize something is so obvious to everyone else, but oh well. Swallowing pride isn't so bad once you get used to it. I hope I never feel so confident about something that I'm unwilling to put it up for scrutiny.

Thanks again for the comments everyone, and Merry Christmas.
 
Done

Just for the record, Van's did get back to me saying the repair looked "tidy" and would "probably never give me a problem." Naturally, there was a disclaimer about never being 100% sure by looking at pictures. It's a moot point, however, since I reordered the parts and redid the whole thing. It now looks great and I admit I am much happier.

Documented here.
http://airplane.athomeinthewilburness.com/2013/12/30/side-skins-section-29-part-2/

Thanks again to all who piped up,
 
You made the right decision replacing the part. It probably won't be the last. Just start a wall of shame:(, that's what I did. It serves as a reminder to slow down and enjoy the build:rolleyes:
 
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