RV-8 Airshow Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWam82inEeU&feature=youtu.be


A video of my solo performance at the Morehead-Rowan County Kentucky 2013 Air Show. When Team AeroDynamix does not have an air show scheduled, the "Yankee" contingent must amuse themselves otherwise. Fellow Team AD member and Cincinnati native Ken Rieder and I have formed a 2 ship airshow act to keep our skills honed. We bill ourselves as "Redline". I'll have more videos when I get Ken's Gopro footage. We had a pretty good "on crowd" wind, so that's my excuse to you experts!

I REALLY enjoyed that, THANKS!!!

I agree with Chris! That was wonderful to watch. Thank you!

Show

Looks good , enjoyed it . Made me miss my Skybolt , oh well the 8 is almost finished !
Tom

Great sequence

SUPER Jon, and well made. Recommend adding a dark gray ND filter to the video camera to reduce that prop bending and jelloing effects. Of course that close to the ground scares me since I haven't pursued the ACE card.
Cheers,
Bill McLean
RV-4 Slider
lower AL

Very Nice Show

Thanks for the video . . . very nice show . . . I?m certainly no expert, but that 4-point roll looked to me like it was as good as can be done.

Enjoyed the video, Jon, nice job flying the 8

Hey Jon, in the interest of fair and balanced response...you have inverted systems..."slow" rolls are meant to be done straight and level. Yep, breakin' your balls. Nice to see some more RV airshow flying. Why don't ya come out to our contest in Morganton, NC. Should be just over an hour flight for you.

WillyEyeBall said:

Of course that close to the ground scares me since I haven't pursued the ACE card.

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Bill, you don't need no stinkin' ACE card to fly that low - just move up to Unlimited.

Nice work Jon! It was fun to watch!

sandifer said:

Hey Jon, in the interest of fair and balanced response...you have inverted systems..."slow" rolls are meant to be done straight and level. Yep, breakin' your balls. Nice to see some more RV airshow flying. Why don't ya come out to our contest in Morganton, NC. Should be just over an hour flight for you.



Bill, you don't need no stinkin' ACE card to fly that low - just move up to Unlimited.

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Eric,
I knew I would catch some flack from the experts, it's OK! I was talking with Kahuna about the fact that at most airshows, an awful lot of performers "cheat" on the slow roll. He suggested, I be the guy that does them right. I have the desire to do that, all it will take is GAS! The inverted systems went on in March, and I've put about 200 hours on since then. We've been focusing mainly on formation aerobatics with an occasional solo practice prepping for ACE evals.
I'd love to start competing, and would be at Morgantown, but I think we have a show that weekend. I always enjoy your comments and critiques, keep them coming.

nice demo

Jon,
very nice demo flight. Its nice to see more RVs out doing airshows. I think its a nice change from the 10G gyroscopic model airplane maneuvers that seem to have taken over the airshow scene.

Chris M

jthocker said:

Eric,
I knew I would catch some flack from the experts, it's OK! I was talking with Kahuna about the fact that at most airshows, an awful lot of performers "cheat" on the slow roll. He suggested, I be the guy that does them right. I have the desire to do that, all it will take is GAS! The inverted systems went on in March, and I've put about 200 hours on since then. We've been focusing mainly on formation aerobatics with an occasional solo practice prepping for ACE evals.
I'd love to start competing, and would be at Morgantown, but I think we have a show that weekend. I always enjoy your comments and critiques, keep them coming.

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Very nice Jon,

WRT slow roll, watch the others........ Most of the interesting displays - i.e. not CAP's or Extra's will pitch up and barrel the slow roll. From a spectators point of view, I think it is preferable because you tend to get a better projection of the aeroplane as it rolls - you see more of the plan view and after all, you are performing for them, not for judges.

IMHO, one of the best on the circuit at the moment is Jim Pietz in his Bonanza, plenty on You Tube - he was at Sun n Fun, and last week we enjoyed him at Reno.

I do a similar set to yours with friends, but as our 7 doesn't have inverted, the slow, 4 and 8 point rolls all have to be barrelled !!!

Great display and looking forward to seeing the other footage.

Your original Vimeo vid still does the rounds over here in the UK - always use it to inspire people to look at Vans as a project.

Christopher Murphy said:

Jon,
very nice demo flight. Its nice to see more RVs out doing airshows. I think its a nice change from the 10G gyroscopic model airplane maneuvers that seem to have taken over the airshow scene.

Chris M

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Hear, hear!! Very nice, and also very nice to see RVs getting more attention on the show scene. I'd rather watch someone fly an "imperfect" slow roll with an RV than a perfect one with a flip-flop acro plan ANY day!

jthocker said:

I was talking with Kahuna about the fact that at most airshows, an awful lot of performers "cheat" on the slow roll. He suggested, I be the guy that does them right.

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Yep many do, and I think it boils down to the fact that they don't need to fly it perfectly, when even the average pilot on the ground doesn't know the difference, much less the average airshow spectator. And some never put in the effort to learn to do good level rolls with the comfort and ease needed during airshow flying. Lots of airshow rolls are allowed to end in a descent for airspeed purposes for the next figure. And for the guys who are flying right on the deck, it may add a little dramatic flair to descend a little toward the ground at very low altitude. But I'm not convinced it presents the airplane any better during the roll itself. There are other ways you can add dimension to the roll for variety - barrel rolls and shoulder rolls. I like to see a performance with variety, and I like to see good fundamental precision skills on display too - which means rolling the airplane nicely level at times. Think Bobby Younkin and those nice smooth level rolls he would do in the Decathlon and Samson Pitts. Anybody can do a positive G roll. Not everyone can do a nice level roll. To me, it's about the challenge and satisfaction of doing something that's not easy and may possibly never truly be mastered to perfection. But I can work at getting as close as possible. And those in the crowd that DO know aerobatics will appreciate it. And when it comes to RV acro, you generally see nothing but positive G rolls. Doing nice level rolls would be a subtle way to differentiate your flying.

Regarding this talk of boring "flip flop" airplanes, there are airshow acts for everyone. I too find lots of the monoplane acts boring and monotonous, being an endless string of multiple fast rolls, snaps, and tumbles without a whole lot of skill, imagination, art or precision. But there are others who fly these "flip flop" airplanes with a level of skill and imagination that few (even recreational acro pilots) would fully appreciate unless their experience is advanced enough to have some understanding of what goes into it. To me, it's more about the pilot than the airplane. I've also seen some boring and uninteresting Decathlon and T-34 acts. Also seen some great Decathlon acts. But airshows would have been out of business a long time ago if the target audience was pilots and what they prefer to see.

Great job! Great tuneage with the vid. Very enjoyable.
Thx

Dennis

jthocker said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWam82inEeU&feature=youtu.be


A video of my solo performance at the Morehead-Rowan County Kentucky 2013 Air Show. When Team AeroDynamix does not have an air show scheduled, the "Yankee" contingent must amuse themselves otherwise. Fellow Team AD member and Cincinnati native Ken Rieder and I have formed a 2 ship airshow act to keep our skills honed. We bill ourselves as "Redline". I'll have more videos when I get Ken's Gopro footage. We had a pretty good "on crowd" wind, so that's my excuse to you experts!

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sandifer said:

But airshows would have been out of business a long time ago if the target audience was pilots and what they prefer to see.

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Very key advice. Airshows are not shows for pilots. We should never critique an air show pilot in what he is doing against an IAC pilot. They are completely different! Airshows are entertainment first and foremost. The quality of the 4 points has nothing to do with entertainment. Nor does a level slow roll. Grade air show pilots on entertainment first. And being the tainted pilots that we are, this is not an easy task.

If you really want to fry some brain cells, sit down and try to define what entertainment is, or what works, or what matters to your target audience as an entertainer, remembering that the target audience is not who is there, but who you want to be there next time.

Kahuna said:

Very key advice. Airshows are not shows for pilots. We should never critique an air show pilot in what he is doing against an IAC pilot. They are completely different! Airshows are entertainment first and foremost. The quality of the 4 points has nothing to do with entertainment. Nor does a level slow roll. Grade air show pilots on entertainment first. And being the tainted pilots that we are, this is not an easy task.

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Totally agree...two entirely different styles of flying. But IAC doesn't own the rights to, nor did they invent the concept of precision aerobatic flight. It's up to the pilot to decide whether or not elements of precision acro fit the routine or not. Some care about it, some don't. IMO, if the maneuver is a simple roll along the flight line, a nice level roll does give the opportunity for the announcer (if there is one) to describe something "special" the pilot is doing. Again, Bobby Younkin used this to good effect. The crowd may not have a full appreciation for it, but they'll probably understand it. Not every roll has to be like that. Variety, flow, and creativity is a lot more important than being precise or confining your flying to some type of "requirement". IAC routines aren't very interesting (compared to airshow routines) unless you're a precision acro nut...which is a tiny percentage, among a tiny percentage (of acro pilots), among a small percentage (of pilots in general) standing in the crowd at an airshow.

Kahuna said:

If you really want to fry some brain cells, sit down and try to define what entertainment is, or what works, or what matters to your target audience as an entertainer...

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You guys have done OK, no?

Well done !

I like it .... inspiring

Great video and loved the music

Jon, really enjoyed that! Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Fantastic video, I really enjoy watching other people perform aerobatics.

If you don't mind, could you give me an idea of the entry speeds you are using for your various manoeuvres.

Cheers

Very nice video John and a great example of the nice fun aerobatics that can be done in an RV.

As far as the underlying debate about airshow -v- comp prescion aerobatics goes, I would much rather watch airshow aerobatics any day of the week. If you don't believe me, try turning up to a comp as a spectator watching knows and unknowns. After the first 20 minutes, you will be bored. Not that I don't respect hugely, the pilots who can fly with such precision, I do, but comp aerobatics is just ONE way to enjoy your aerobatics.

Well done!

Remag said:

As far as the underlying debate about airshow -v- comp prescion aerobatics goes, I would much rather watch airshow aerobatics any day of the week. If you don't believe me, try turning up to a comp as a spectator watching knows and unknowns. After the first 20 minutes, you will be bored $#!tless. Not that I don't respect hugely, the pilots who can fly with such precision, I do, but comp aerobatics is just ONE way to enjoy your aerobatics.

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Not sure where the idea came about that there was some sort of debate going on regarding whether one should fly in the style of competition or airshows, and which is more entertaining. Just some friendly ribbing about doing level rolls in a plane with inverted systems. Heck, Jon drew a real inverted line on a Cuban (but no line after...couldn't resist ), but that doesn't mean he's flying "boring" like in a contest. Level rolls were not invented just for competition, and doing a level roll does not somehow transform your flying into a boring "competition sequence". Many of the most successful airshow performers in various types of planes do good level rolls. A few don't even have inverted systems. And there are other well-known performers who probably haven't done one in decades. Doesn't matter. Nobody has ever said, nor will they ever say that competition sequences are fun to watch for those without serious interest or involvement in the sport. I'd much prefer to watch an Unlimited flight than most airshow flights, but that's me. I understand very few are like that. Contests aren't remotely designed for spectators. Here, spectators are welcome, but they are not invited. Now the 4-minute Free program at contests is basically an airshow. Most of the competition videos you'll find online are of the 4-minute flights. There's a reason for that.

Ever seen horse dressage? Very difficult. Almost unwatchable as a casual observer. But the dressage nuts would be much more interested in watching it than the Derby.

To everyone, thanks for the nice comments. I post the video and pictures elsewhere fully expecting that I will get busted for errors. I'm somewhat of a perfectionist, so I'm always looking to improve. I expect and welcome Eric's critique and advice. I think I'll go practice today. Guess what I'll be working on!

Jon please post your new flights videos to learn more, thank you very much

Aerobatic technique

Where can I find very specific technique for various aerobatic maneuvers in the RV? Not just videos, but exact control input/airspeed/attitude.

Jim
RV-4
N444JT

jthocker said:

Guess what I'll be working on!

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Jon, there's plenty out there on technique. Alan Cassidy's book has the best technical description of the roll, IMO. Maybe just some ideas on how to self-critique the roll during practice if or when you don't have someone good on the ground to help you: You've probably already done this, being able to fly inverted, but burn that inverted attitude into your brain by flying straight and level inverted. Of course that changes with your airspeed. It's an art not a science right? That's the attitude you must nail halfway through the roll. Break it down and start with some half rolls from upright to inverted. Line your nose up with a good reference point in the distance. Be sure you're in perfect horizontal flight first. Half roll and freeze the stick in its exact position immediately upon reaching inverted. No correcting pitch after you've stopped the half roll. Are you still on heading? Are you not having to hold any extra rudder to keep the nose on heading? Have you hit that attitude? Are you still in stabilized horizontal flight, airspeed stable, and altitude not descending or climbing? Do the recording hands on your G meter say exactly +1/-1G as you're hanging inverted? If so, you probably did a pretty good level half roll. Some airframe/pitot/static setups might produce some slight altimeter variations when transitioning upright to inverted, so look for trends after you've set your inverted attitude.

Now from inverted to upright, think through the same inputs that got you from upright to inverted, and reverse the elevator and rudder inputs. The most common error in the inverted to upright portion of the roll is reducing too much forward pressure too early. This will cause the nose to simultaneously drop, and "dish" off heading to the right, if rolling left. The telltale sign is if you're having to hold left rudder (if rolling left) upon completion of the roll to hold the nose on your entry heading.

I've always wanted to try this, but flying direct loose trail behind another pilot who is in straight and level flight would give you a good reference for altitude and heading deviations while practicing rolls. But I'm not a formation guy, so don't know if wake turbulence would be an issue or not, depending on how close you are. Or it would also be fun to fly loose line abreast and have someone take video of some rolls. Very small deviations would be apparent. Perfection is hard. If you get close, you'd probably still notice small deviations air-to-air that would not be seen from the ground. You'll never run out of things to work on doing acro.

I like your other video better

The other video you have on youtube where you are giving your daughter a ride is why I like to fly. I love to just drone around and feel the g-forces of flight. It is absoultly wonderfull. I can tell your daughter loved it too.
Thank you for posting it. I also shared it with my friends..