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  #11  
Old 07-01-2013, 03:20 PM
tmendy tmendy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 41
Default Flaps/Landings

Agree with fixnflyguy.

If you have 5,000' you can do whatever you want no problem; flaps, no flaps.

My home field is 2,165' with a wacky approach end downdraft sinker (our approach end is the terminus of an ascending slope with typical sweeping downdraft), crosswinds, gusty buffets and excitement typical in the afternoons. If I exceeded 80mph with no headwind at our field I would probably go off the end especially on a hot day floating. The difference between 65 and 80 over the numbers is amazing especially on a short field.

IMHO The slower you touch (or plop in my case ) down, the safer.

Also, I always try to land zero power beginning on downwind, full flaps as short field as possible just for practice in case of an actual emergency situation. (I usually end up needing a little power short final at the home field because it's so short and you can't be hot over the numbers.)

For me what works is: 100mph downwind, 80mph base/final, flaps, bleed off to about 65 short final to over the numbers. (my VSO indicated is about 52mph)



Cheers,
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2013, 05:31 PM
eddieseve eddieseve is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 268
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Hi Guys,

I am following pretty much the technique described by 'Remag', full flaps abeam threshold, down final at 70 knots and can 3 point it nicely pretty much all the time when I am paying attention.

However wheelers in my RV7 are still bothering me as the undercarriage is so springy and so 9 times out of 10 I am airborne again before I can react by apply forward stick, any advice on how to stick a wheeler?

Cheers
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2013, 05:39 PM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
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Location: Uniontown, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieseve View Post
Hi Guys,

I am following pretty much the technique described by 'Remag', full flaps abeam threshold, down final at 70 knots and can 3 point it nicely pretty much all the time when I am paying attention.

However wheelers in my RV7 are still bothering me as the undercarriage is so springy and so 9 times out of 10 I am airborne again before I can react by apply forward stick, any advice on how to stick a wheeler?

Cheers
Eddie:

I also had a similar problem you did with wheel landing in my -6.

Try not to trim off stick pressure after you put out the flaps and do not use more than 3/4 flaps. (~30 degrees on my airplane) I find it more difficult to do wheel landings with full flaps.

If you are still having problems, try finding a long runway were you can practice flying down the runway touch the wheels to land, add a little power to get flying again, then slow down to get the main wheels back on. I use to do that at a 6,000' plus runway. Could do 3 or 4 practice touching the mains then going around. Sorta like doing 3 or 4 touch and goes on one approach.
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2013, 06:04 PM
rv9aviator rv9aviator is offline
 
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Location: Arkansas
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I would be interested in what some 9A and 9's do regarding flaps since that is what I fly. I landed at my home airport the other day with a 20 kt. quartering headwind. I used half flaps because of the wind and crossed the numbers at 70 kts. It just kept wanting to float forever before finally settling on to the runway. I would imagine the longer flaps and different airfoil would land different than the others.
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  #15  
Old 07-01-2013, 06:14 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dunnellon, FL
Posts: 688
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I dump,full flaps abeam the numbers in the -9A and trim/power for 58-60 kias. It glides perfectly from 1,000 agl to a 45 turn to base, then final and touchdown with ashore float before touchdown. Haven't done strong crosswinds in the -9A, but in the -10 I use half flaps and an extra 5 knots over the fence. In insane and gusty crosswinds, I would leave flaps up and keep speed up and plan to land on a long runway (3,000ft).
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  #16  
Old 07-01-2013, 06:20 PM
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hevansrv7a hevansrv7a is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Detroit, MI
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Default Thinking cautiously

Once at OSH I was chatting with a guy who was even older than I am. We were comparing techniques for the C-150. He said he always landed without flaps so that he'd know how to do it if the flap motor failed. Hmm, I thought..

So I started doing it both ways in my 150 and learned a little more about flying and landing it.

The 150 went to a good home after I finished my 7A, but I still practice with half flaps and even no flaps when the opportunity is there. When I was practicing instrument approaches I flew them with no flaps at 100 KIAS so as to make go-arounds easier and safer. I usually use only half flaps in a strong xwind because the speed is higher and thus the xw component is lower as a proportion of the speed and that means less crab or wing-dip. It also gives me a better margin of lift for vertical gusts that often come with strong xw.

The RV needs flaps to get the speed down to more reasonable levels - more than the 150 by a considerable amount. But the flaps are electric and I did have them fail to deploy once already. I never did find out why; they never did it again. They could.

I totally agree that landings should be stable and the landing routine should be well understood and practiced, but being ready for a no-flaps landing can only make you safer.
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  #17  
Old 07-01-2013, 06:22 PM
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Vlad Vlad is online now
 
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Location: NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv9aviator View Post
I would be interested in what some 9A and 9's do regarding flaps since that is what I fly. I landed at my home airport the other day with a 20 kt. quartering headwind. I used half flaps because of the wind and crossed the numbers at 70 kts. It just kept wanting to float forever before finally settling on to the runway. I would imagine the longer flaps and different airfoil would land different than the others.

I flap fully 99% of my landings. There were couple times I couldn't land even without flaps with gusty and excessive xwind. It was blowing across almost 40 kts at an airport not far from my base. A perfect and rare opportunity to practice. A local CFI saw my struggle while taxiing for departure and said if I ever come back bring the logbook for free BFR signoff. I came 30 minutes later but he was gone
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  #18  
Old 07-01-2013, 06:32 PM
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n5lp n5lp is offline
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Most of my non-RV time is in various single engine Cessnas. In the C182, R182, and C210 in particular I found many occasions when partial flap landings were my choice. If there is no weight in the back and you have full flaps it is a bit of a struggle to land mains first. You can do it but it takes a pretty massive heave on the yoke and, to me, just doesn't feel very natural. Half flaps is a great remedy for that.

In my RV-6 it is completely different. No matter the loading the stick forces are light. The main concern is the forces may get a bit too light with aft loading. So it is kind of the reverse of the Cessna situation. I always want full flaps for drag and visibility and for aft loading I would wish for a bit more flaps. Three point is the choice in every situation.

As for certain flap settings and speeds at different places in the pattern, that stuff has always puzzled me a bit. I know I want full flaps and a certain speed on short final and want some flap at the power reduction point on downwind, for visibility and drag. Otherwise I don't see how any of that matters in the least as long as the speed is enough to present no threat of a stall.
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  #19  
Old 07-01-2013, 06:49 PM
eddieseve eddieseve is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV6_flyer View Post
Eddie:

I also had a similar problem you did with wheel landing in my -6.

Try not to trim off stick pressure after you put out the flaps and do not use more than 3/4 flaps. (~30 degrees on my airplane) I find it more difficult to do wheel landings with full flaps.

If you are still having problems, try finding a long runway were you can practice flying down the runway touch the wheels to land, add a little power to get flying again, then slow down to get the main wheels back on. I use to do that at a 6,000' plus runway. Could do 3 or 4 practice touching the mains then going around. Sorta like doing 3 or 4 touch and goes on one approach.
Thanks Gary,

That is a really neat idea about not trimming out the stick forces, I'll try that next time and also try the 30 degrees of flap rather than 40 degrees.

Cheers
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  #20  
Old 07-01-2013, 07:28 PM
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docskj docskj is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Abilene, Texas
Posts: 63
Default Landing the 9A

In my 9A I typically get below 80kts abeam the numbers and put out one notch of flaps. This helps to slow to 65-70 kts IAS. Second notch of flaps around downwind to base turn. Using the AOA, keeping the green bar at the doughnut, my airspeed will be somewhere between 62-68 kts depending on my loading, maneuvering/turning, and the density altitude. If I find myself really high on final, full flaps and it will drop like a rock. Plenty of energy left for a nice flair using the AOA. I like to land with half flaps 99% of the time since keeping the nose wheel off is easier in this configuration. I like Bitching Betty to be screaming "ANGLE, ANGLE, PUSH" when I am about a foot off the ground. This results in very consistent squeakers and a short roll-out.


Steve Johnson
524SJ
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