Ideas for improving EAA Airventure 2012

I love going to airventure. In fact, I enjoyed it this year as much as any other. Still, some of the post-Osh commentary got me thinking about a few things, and things can always be better, right? Are there constructive and practical ideas that can put more "E" back into EAA-Airventure? While it may not be realistic to expect Airventure to circle the main plaza with RV's instead of big or scary looking planes, I bet there are some great ideas out there.

First, for those who say Airventure is not for Experimentals anymore. Please do consider the following:
- The EAA Museum is very nice, and it honors experimental builders. It's also a nice break to get air conditioning, and it's great to walk through.
- KidVenture: Totally about teaching kids to build and appreciate homebuilt airplanes. They teach kids how to rivet, design planes, do composites, make props and wood ribs, etc. My kids absolutely love this.
- The forums and workshops: DadVenture and totally for experimental. Learn to weld, rivet, deal with fabric, etc.
- HBC, HBP, and parts of the flightline. Just parking lots to us, but I know many visitors who consider this as part of the show, walking around to see the homebuilts and all the various wacky paint jobs and such.
- This year, several of Burt Rutan's airplanes were on ConocoPhillips Plaza.

Here's my ideas:
- I think ultralights, lsa/elsa, and core homebuilder's sections have a lot in common or are of interest to a lot of the same folks. Currently, they have such small and pitiful areas all remote. Why not move the homebuilt and lsa/elsa displays over to the Ultralight area and make it a larger, more-inviting experience?

- The airshow needs some experimentals. Cmon, how many extras do we need to see doing flips? Boring. Get TeamRV!

- The Parade of Homebuilts. Before the flying part of the show, maybe invite pilots/planes in HBC/HBP to simply taxi past show center and back to parking. Play some music, wave some flags, maybe put a bikini chick in a copilot seat.

Short.
There should be an RV-DAY.
Including Showcase and Airshow.

A Nice Cup of Joe

I continue to be consternated by the difficulty of finding a decent cup of coffee. There's like two places on the entire site.

But I guess if that's my biggest complaint, things aren't so bad...

-Matt
402BD

Flying High coffee at the main entrance and between buildings A and C. Good coffee at a reasonable price...free but donations accepted. If you buy a bag of coffee, 30% goes to Young Eagles.

How about EAA not charging $8 for parking at the seaplane base!!!!!!!!! (Should be free with a wrist band).

Absurd

dhall_polo said:

Cmon, how many extras do we need to see doing flips? Boring. Get TeamRV!

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TeamRV was there at beginning of airshow Tuesday this year!

Actually, there was an ez-up tent between exhibition buildings A and C that was serving coffee for a free will donation. Can't remember what the cause was. Every time I would walk by there that aroma would hit me. Finally caved in and had a cup, despite it being hotter than all get out. Not the coffee, the OAT!

Here's a far fetched idea for Airventure. How about having a homebuilt only fly-in a few days before the start of ad-venture? An event where there could be flight demos of different designs and possibly a chance for EAA members/builders to actually get in our planes and take a lap around show center instead of parking them all week and staring at them. Have a couple days where any arrivals had to be on the ground by noon and then open up the airspace for attendees to fly.

No corporate stuff, no warbirds, no airshow, just a bunch of homebuilders getting together to act smart and talk stupid (or is it the other way around) soak up some camaraderie and fly our airplanes.

Could it work? Probably would be a challenge. I said it was far fetched.....

pilotian said:

TeamRV was there at beginning of airshow Tuesday this year!

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Must have been some other Team RV or the guys left me home alone again.

There needs to be a camp store between HBC, the North 40, and the Warbirds area. Once upon a time, there was one and it was a godsend compared to trudging a mile (literally) to the Red Barn for bread, beer, soap or whatever.

There also should be a breakfast option towards the North end of the field. Doughnuts, coffee, biscuits, etc - keep it simple and quick. But again, it is a long walk to food.

I see these first two items as an opportunity for someone. Properly managed, they might provide funding for an upgraded Homebuilt HQ building like Paul Poberezny alluded to in one of his forums.

Maybe it is a Sunday thing, maybe not, but when I was trying to depart Sunday morning, none of the cafe's on the North side of Phillips Square were open before 7:30 or so. Not sure if they even opened at 8:00 - there was no activity at 7:30. We need breakfast options that open more or less when the sun rises.

Despite the "vehicle restricted" signs in many of the vendor display areas, there sure were a lot of gators, scooters, and golf carts driving through.

Showers

More and better showers in HBC.

How about a few community bikes? There are bikes left on the grounds every year. So why not pick them up, paint them bright orange and let folks who camp use them to get to the store or to the show. Beats packing a fold up bike in the plane.

For that matter, there are tents left every year. How about a sign up to reserve one when you buy your tickets. Anything to make the plane lighter so we can haul more spotted cow back to the home base.

Ban Bonanzas from ever flying formation again.

Some basic stuff....

I vote for some decent showers for the HBC area. The unit had 2 sinks and one of them had an inch of water on the floor in front of it. There must have been 200 airplanes in the HBC and for sure there were not as many women as men, yet the ladies had half the available showers. It weren't fair. I nearly wandered into their unit one night, it was so quiet.

I stopped a volunteer on his golf cart one day and commented the lavs had not been serviced in three days and by night fall there would be no toilet paper. He responded I will get right on it and sure enough several hours later a lav service truck showed up. We did not run our to TP this year. Its a good idea to bring a roll just in case, they have run out in previous years. Seems like lav service is on demand, not a scheduled thing.

Overall the event was quite well managed, but we got short changed with the old shower truck trailer this year. I can't remember if it was here or SNF, but in previous years the truck shower was very new, clean and had adequate sinks so more than 2 guys could shave at one time. Campers pay $22 a night no matter where they are camped, seems like the shower service could be more equitable and for sure more of them. The HBC has been where it is for some time, why not build a decent permanent shower facility along with all the other improvements in the area. It would be amortized in just a few years compared to renting those old wrecks that have water on the floor in front of half the sinks. Standing in water coming from a shower stall probably violates half a dozen health codes.

Good thing most of us are tough and had military training in our youth, we can deal with it.

That was FALCON FLIGHT, Thank you. We did have a member of Team RV as Number 2. He did grate.
Next year the hope is to have 40, that is right 40 in a formation.
See you there.

Geico266 said:

Ban Bonanzas from ever flying formation again.

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I was on front of the flight line and saw that too. I was talking to a stranger beside me and said to him "That flight is going to get into some wake" and then it happened. Wow.

Opening weekend

Flew in later on sat aft. They were happy taking our $$ for hbc, but...you think you could find a burger, beer, or even a bottle of water... Walked for hours...SOS tent, lights on but nobody home. Walked to all food venders, not one open, walked to camp store in the pouring rain..closed. Later in the week there seemed to be more vending machines but with hundreds of planes, you would figure they would provide some services.

Burgers, beer, water and coffee.... all I need to be happy. Start the coffee at 6 or 7 am, make it decent, and keep the burgers and beer till 10 if there are people with no campers, power, coolers...they need to be ready earlier than MONDAY to feed and water them. Just saying. First night really was unpleasant. Oh well. Just my suggestion.

The real bathrooms built onto the one hangar were great...open all night, no locks. BUT..the lights only come on if there is movement and shut off shortly after movement stops...most inconvenient at 5 am. Ask me how I know...haha.

They should mandate that the porta-pottie vendors to use a better grade of TP.

dhall_polo said:

- The airshow needs some experimentals. Cmon, how many extras do we need to see doing flips? Boring. Get TeamRV!

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I do believe that Rocket Aerobatics (aka Team Rocket) was involved on July 30th.

RickWoodall said:

Flew in later on sat aft. They were happy taking our $$ for hbc, but...you think you could find a burger, beer, or even a bottle of water... Walked for hours...SOS tent, lights on but nobody home. Walked to all food venders, not one open, walked to camp store in the pouring rain..closed. Later in the week there seemed to be more vending machines but with hundreds of planes, you would figure they would provide some services.

Burgers, beer, water and coffee.... all I need to be happy. Start the coffee at 6 or 7 am, make it decent, and keep the burgers and beer till 10 if there are people with no campers, power, coolers...they need to be ready earlier than MONDAY to feed and water them. Just saying. First night really was unpleasant. Oh well. Just my suggestion.

The real bathrooms built onto the one hangar were great...open all night, no locks. BUT..the lights only come on if there is movement and shut off shortly after movement stops...most inconvenient at 5 am. Ask me how I know...haha.

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Rick,
You can ride the buses around the North 40 to eat at a few places outside the grounds. You can usually get a bus to stop at what they call the Hardee's hole in the fence. (it's really a gate). Next stop is the Friar Tuck's restaurant gate, then the Hilton bus stop. Just across the street near the Hilton is West End Pizza, Very good! The Hilton itself has a nice bar that I've been to and it has a wonderful breakfast bar. Sorry to hear you had a bad first night. I was there Saturday night. I wish I had known you were trying to find everything!

Mark

EAA does have a Homebuilt Site Planning Committee (of which I'm a member) comprised of a group of staff, volunteers and a member of the board of directors. Our purpose is to plan and implement improvements to the homebuilt portion of the grounds. I can tell you that there is a master plan that we worked on quite a bit in early 2010, with some very ambitious improvements planned in the homebuilt area. Then Sloshkosh struck, and EAA lost a bundle. Money was tight, and what little money was available was earmarked for (necessary) improvements to drainage. Now that we have made it through another successful year, the hope is that there will be some $ to restart our plans for next year.

Our efforts were inspired in large part by the big improvements that were made to the Antique/ Classic and Warbirds areas over the past few years. It became obvious that those groups were overtaking Homebuilts in terms of the quality of the experience that they provided to their members, and we were determined to make similar improvements to the homebuilt area. The long term plan is indeed quite ambitious but will make a markedly better experience for the homebuilt enthusiast.

Your feedback is an important part of this process, and I will take all of these suggestions back to the committee. I will address a few of the comments below.

painless said:

Here's a far fetched idea for Airventure. How about having a homebuilt only fly-in a few days before the start of ad-venture?

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RickWoodall said:

Flew in later on sat aft. They were happy taking our $$ for hbc, but...you think you could find a burger, beer, or even a bottle of water...

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This is a common theme every year. The show opens on Monday, but for all practical purposes is open Sunday. If you get there before then, is it reasonable to expect that the infrastructure (trams, food vendors) is in place? Or should you expect to be on your own for food and wheels? Keep in mind that the folks who provide most of these services are volunteers who are taking vacation time to work at the show, and most of them don't show up until Saturday.

lluciani said:

More and better showers in HBC.

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David-aviator said:

Overall the event was quite well managed, but we got short changed with the old shower truck trailer this year. I can't remember if it was here or SNF, but in previous years the truck shower was very new, clean and had adequate sinks so more than 2 guys could shave at one time.

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This is near the top of the list. The shower trailer has been there since HBC opened in 2005 with about 100 airplanes. The area has grown many times, but the facilities have not kept pace. This is a known issue. I will point out that the new (in 2010) North 40 shower house is not too far, and in fact is about equidistant for the folks stuck in the NW corner of HBC.

Mike D said:

How about a few community bikes?

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Bikes are not allowed on the flightline. There are too many vehicles as it is. Don't hold your breath for this one.

Geico266 said:

Ban Bonanzas from ever flying formation again.

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Bonanzas have never flown formation at Oshkosh. A mass arrival is not a formation.

Sat

I certainly understand they are volunteers. The question is what could be improved.. I think a basic vending machine somewhere near HBC with bottled water, and or a snickers bar on the sat and sun would have been great. I noticed they had machines over in vintage camping. To not even be able to find water seems a bit rough. We did learn about the hole in the fence at n40 but not until tues. Now we know, but just thought it would be something someone could work on.

Jeff, I am not talking bikes on the flight line. I am talking about taking a community bike from way out in the camping area to the gates.

Jamie said:

I was on front of the flight line and saw that too. I was talking to a stranger beside me and said to him "That flight is going to get into some wake" and then it happened. Wow.

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For those of us that weren't there... then what happened?? Bent metal or just brown stained undies?

Bad Timing?

One of the attractions I look forward to and regularly visit during AirVenture week is the EAA museum. On my last two visits, 2009 and 2011, I was chagrined to find that access to the lower floor of Eagle hangar was denied. On both occasions, the EAA removed most of the warbirds and gave the floorspace over to chairs for the purpose of hosting one event or another. I do not make it up to Oshkosh every single year but when I do make the pilgrimmage, I expect the museum to be filled with airplanes. If the EAA wants to host seating events during AirVenture week, I suggest they find someplace else to do it.

Team RV

I'll say it again.........I think that the EAA should definitely ask Team RV to perform at least three times during the week. It almost seems UNAMERICAN not to have these fellows perform in light of the number of RVs that fly into Oshkosh. I agree that there is way too much emphasis on the spinning, rolling and flipping Extras, etc. Once a day is enough!!!!! We are homebuilders....experimental aircarft folks....experimentals need to be showcased and I can't think of a better way to do it than TEAM RV. I don't understand why the EAA has not asked the team to perform. GEEEEZ.

My two pennies.

Don't have the helicopter rides fly over the forums. You can't hear what the presenters are saying as they pass overhead.

AirVenture improvement suggestions

Great thread. First let me say I love AirVenture. There are so much that is great about it -- but this is a thread for improvements so here are my thoughts:

-- I'd like to build on Dan Hall's suggestion for a The Parade of Homebuilts. Either during each day's airshow or before, maybe have one of each kind of homebuilt fly around the pattern a few time with the annoucer talking about each type. For common types like RVs, maybe have a lotto for who gets to fly the RV for that day, with a different plane/pilot each day.

-- Warbirds. I know this will be controversial as many think there is too much emphasis on Warbirds already. But I -- a homebuilder -- love to see the Warbirds fly, especially WWI, WWII, & Korea. I've seen them all on static displays in museums, but the great thing about AirVenture is that you see them fly. That said, there are many Warbirds at Oshkosh but don't fly. For example. this year the following planes were there but didn't fly (at least not while I was there Wed & Thu): P-38, B-29, P-40, Grumman Duck, F4U Corsair, Zero, FW-190, Dauntless, Avenger, Bearcat (flew briefly in heritage flt). I think that one of each type that is airworthy should fly in a Warbird parade -- every day. EAA should pay the owners expenses for it. Some company sponsored the airshow for the entire week - money shouldn't be a problem. Same for the current Navy warbirds like the P-3, T-45, T-6B, Helos -- why not have them fly around the patch as well?

-- Special Days. When they have a special event like Navy Day on Wednesday, AirVenture should make every effort to get all the airworthy Warbirds they can for the occasion. Yes, they had a Bearcat, Wildcat, Tigercat, Duck, HellDiver, Avenger, Dauntless, and FJ4 Fury. But no F6F Hellcat, AD1 Skyraider, PBY-Catalina? I know these are still flying around. What about some of the prewar stuff like the F3F?

-- Special Days 2: On the Burt Rutan day, it would have been nice to see an example of all his designs fly around the pattern, not just the Starship and Boomerang.

-- WWI replicas. Where are all the homebuilt WWI planes? Last year they had the DR-1 Triplane, DR-7 and DR-8 from Colorado, but nothing this year. Many homebuilders have built WWI replica's -- why are they not at AirVenture? I know they are not the easiest planes to go cross-country in, but maybe AirVenture could make it worth their while.

-- Famous planes. I've never seen a Spirt of St. Louis replica fly -- that's something that ought to be done yearly at AirVenture. They just finished building a Bleriott replica -- it would have been nice to see it fly. How about one of the early Wright Flyers? My hat is off to Bob Cooledge for building and flying the 1911 Curtiss Pusher to AirVenture -- and flying it there.

-- Ditto on Team RV flying in the airshow at least 3 times.
-- Ditto on the EAA Museum. The last two times I've been there they have had the Eagles section closed off setting up for a dinner.

-- And yes, more showers in the HBC area! World peace too.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

The answer

The obvious solution is to change your arrival sign from HBC to GAC. I 've been doing that for years to take advantage of the N40 amenties such as nearby restaurants and stores. Not to mention 2 shower houses (1 brand new).
IMHO, I rather enjoy not having the non-pilots milling/touching/drooling around the airplanes especially when I'm not around. The civilians seldom venture into the N40 anyway. If a guy has a possible Grand Champion, park that thing over in showplanes for judging.
I know they're not homebuilts but the Mooney, Bonanza and Cessna guys all park together in the N40. We can do that too.

RickWoodall said:

I certainly understand they are volunteers. The question is what could be improved.. I think a basic vending machine somewhere near HBC with bottled water, and or a snickers bar on the sat and sun would have been great.

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Vending machines, now that is a good idea. Or, they currently sell ice in HBC, mostly on the honor system, so they could also put out some snacks and bottled water on the same system. I'll definitely bring this up.

Mike D said:

Jeff, I am not talking bikes on the flight line. I am talking about taking a community bike from way out in the camping area to the gates.

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OK, I misunderstood. Bikes in Camp Scholler is really beyond the scope of the homebuilt committee but I like the idea. Some cities do a similar thing (ie. red bikes.) An alternative- many folks buy a bike for cheap from Goodwill for the week then donate it back at the end.

DEWATSON said:

I'll say it again.........I think that the EAA should definitely ask Team RV to perform at least three times during the week.

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I can't speak for Team RV but I know EAA is very interested in having them perform at OSH 12.

flybill7 said:

-- I'd like to build on Dan Hall's suggestion for a The Parade of Homebuilts. Either during each day's airshow or before, maybe have one of each kind of homebuilt fly around the pattern a few time with the annoucer talking about each type. For common types like RVs, maybe have a lotto for who gets to fly the RV for that day, with a different plane/pilot each day.

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This used to be a regular thing at Oshkosh that we have gotten away from. It's called the Homebuilt Review. This year it was down to just one day, after having been two days for several years. Used to be a daily occurrence, but that's just part of the changing culture of EAA with less emphasis on the E. I don't like it either but that's the way it has become.

BTW- there was a much bigger Rutan fly-by planned but it got scrapped due to weather, which was too bad.

sprucemoose said:

Bonanzas have never flown formation at Oshkosh. A mass arrival is not a formation.

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They did with a formation of Baron's in front of them on Monday or Tuesday I think...my heart stopped for a few moments as I thought we were going to witness a major tragedy. They did the right thing by scattering the formation, but it was UGLY...

Rick6a said:

One of the attractions I look forward to and regularly visit during AirVenture week is the EAA museum. On my last two visits, 2009 and 2011, I was chagrined to find that access to the lower floor of Eagle hangar was denied. On both occasions, the EAA removed most of the warbirds and gave the floorspace over to chairs for the purpose of hosting one event or another. I do not make it up to Oshkosh every single year but when I do make the pilgrimmage, I expect the museum to be filled with airplanes. If the EAA wants to host seating events during AirVenture week, I suggest they find someplace else to do it.

Click to expand...

Why would they use another facility with a perfectly good facility available to them that they own? All the airplanes were there...a walk out the back door to the Pioneer runway was a great setting to view them, I thought.

The events they hold in the Eagle hangar are fantastic if you haven't been to them. The speakers are always interesting, and they raise a TON of money for Young Eagles each year at the Gathering of Eagles auction. I think it's plenty worth-while for them to use that facility as they are using it.

The museum was filled with airplanes...the Eagle hangar is always changing, and used for great events.

dhall_polo said:

The airshow needs some experimentals. Cmon, how many extras do we need to see doing flips? Boring. Get TeamRV!.

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Experimental is all you saw with the exception of the T34 and Beech 18 ( it think....) All those Extras (not certified), Pitts look alike (Tucker and Stewart = Homebuilts) and MX's (Factory or Homebuilt choice) were all Experimental aircraft..

Want to see more RV's? We need to get more RV's involved in aerobatics...

cjensen said:

They did with a formation of Baron's in front of them on Monday or Tuesday I think...my heart stopped for a few moments as I thought we were going to witness a major tragedy. They did the right thing by scattering the formation, but it was UGLY...

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I saw that break up also, it looked great compared to burning metal falling out of the sky.

cjensen said:

They did with a formation of Baron's in front of them on Monday or Tuesday I think...my heart stopped for a few moments as I thought we were going to witness a major tragedy. They did the right thing by scattering the formation, but it was UGLY...

Click to expand...

I didn't witness this, so please clarify for me. The mass arrivals (Bonanzas, Mooneys etc) are often falsely labeled as formation arrivals. Are you saying that they attempted an actual formation arrival (ie. planes in close formation with an overhead break or other maneuver) as part of the mass arrival? That would be a new one to me, and if it happened then I stand corrected. Any Youtube videos of the event?

Figured I might as well get my suggestions in as well...

1) Flush toilets in the campground areas - my wife and daughter are not real enhtusastic campers and flush toilets would improve my case immensly.

2) Tar and Chip, or at least gravel the roads in the campground areas. With the rain this year, the campsites weren't too bad, but the roads again became nearly impassible. Gravel or tar and chip would largely solve that.

I haven't done the math, but based on the number of campsites I saw on the quick helicopter ride, at $22+ per campsite per night it sure seems like the funds should be available.

sprucemoose said:

I didn't witness this, so please clarify for me. The mass arrivals (Bonanzas, Mooneys etc) are often falsely labeled as formation arrivals. Are you saying that they attempted an actual formation arrival (ie. planes in close formation with an overhead break or other maneuver) as part of the mass arrival? That would be a new one to me, and if it happened then I stand corrected. Any Youtube videos of the event?

Click to expand...

It was not a mass arrival, Jeff. It was a serious of 4 ship Beech airplanes, some singles, some twins. They made a number of passes, each 4 ship group seemed to be on its own. One of formations broke up front and center as they turned east following the other 4 ship groups that had turned east.

Bad formation

The flight that you guys are talking about happened Monday afternoon. I was waiting for the REO speedwagon concert with saved seats so I was watching all the formations. This was their 3rd pass IIRC. The first two were a little shaky mostly with Bravo flight. Two looked like he was real loose in his position. Bravo lead saw that it was about to be metal to metal and he pushed over. Three cleared right with Four following moments later. Charlie flight had to start their turn to downwind at about show center to get out of the way. Real messy and just about had new paint jobs. My only thought is that they did a real quick course and passed people off without enough training so they could fly formation at OSH.

sprucemoose said:

I didn't witness this, so please clarify for me. The mass arrivals (Bonanzas, Mooneys etc) are often falsely labeled as formation arrivals. Are you saying that they attempted an actual formation arrival (ie. planes in close formation with an overhead break or other maneuver) as part of the mass arrival? That would be a new one to me, and if it happened then I stand corrected. Any Youtube videos of the event?

Click to expand...

As David said, they were part of the afternoon pre-airwshow fly-by's. The group of Bonanza's that broke formation was behind a group of Baron's that created a large wake, and it tossed the Bonanza's around like toys...

Just to add a bit ...

cjensen said:

Why would they use another facility with a perfectly good facility available to them that they own? All the airplanes were there...a walk out the back door to the Pioneer runway was a great setting to view them, I thought.

The events they hold in the Eagle hangar are fantastic if you haven't been to them. The speakers are always interesting, and they raise a TON of money for Young Eagles each year at the Gathering of Eagles auction. I think it's plenty worth-while for them to use that facility as they are using it.

The museum was filled with airplanes...the Eagle hangar is always changing, and used for great events.

Click to expand...

Ditto above and ...

I think they raised a few million $$ for Young Eagles (auction held there) including <<I THINK>> $400,000 for the "Blue Angles Mustang".

Also, the Electric Airplane/Propulsion Symposium was held there on Friday and Saturday as I recall (it all blurs together).

And as mentioned, Pioneer field made a great backdrop for many of the planes that are typically stuck inside.

James

Jeff, thanks for serving on that committee....glad to hear there is an advocacy group.

My suggestion isn't really about improving the whole fly-in, but rather a detail closer to home. Any chance of a group erecting a moderate size community meeting tent in the back of HBC (perhaps along the fence), just as the Cessna and Beech owner groups do over in the North 40?

AM coffee, PM beer, shade, rain shelter, chat with other homebuilders.........

Great idea Dan.

Check your PMs.

DanH said:

Jeff, thanks for serving on that committee....glad to hear there is an advocacy group.

My suggestion isn't really about improving the whole fly-in, but rather a detail closer to home. Any chance of a group erecting a moderate size community meeting tent in the back of HBC (perhaps along the fence), just as the Cessna and Beech owner groups do over in the North 40?

AM coffee, PM beer, shade, rain shelter, chat with other homebuilders.........

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There was a tent/canopy adjacent to the bathrooms in HBC. I used it for all the things you listed except for coffee - I don't drink the stuff...

Not what you were looking for?

Not being picky but that tent would not have kept you dry in rain unless you were to move to the leaward side. I would have loved to see a few more events in HBC , where one could have chatted with your camping neibors. They had a corn boil which I particpated in , "thank you very much" but it was not posted and some people returned as it was shutting down and they were disapointed. I realize this is all volunteer, so I'm not critisizing, just suggesting.
As for volunteering this year I asked a volunteer on site if one could volunteer for a couple hrs each day and they replied that 6 to 8 hrs per day was expected. Toward the end of the show another volunteer that I was walking with said that I was misinformed. The first case was to recieve benifits, but you can register as a fill in and do two hr reliefs for other volunteers. I wasn't interested in benifits, I just wanted to help out. This being my first time at Airventure for the week I wanted to get familiar with the event. If i make it there next year I'll look into volunteering.
My biggest suggestion would have to be locations throughout for water and or lemonaid. I don't recall any vendors selling just these items. I had to get into long food line ups just for a drink. Sun n Fun has Airventure ,when it comes to drinks available.
A big thank you to all the volunteers at Airventure, and there are a lot of them everywhere you look. You don't have to go far for help.
Ron

Guys,
If your intent is to tell EAA what you would like to see improved in 2012, the best place for them to hear you and take your recommendations forward is on the EAA forums. They are there and listening.

A few thoughts..

I cannot figure out why they don't make the show Sunday through Saturday? They could have a very strong opening yet close on a high note with the Saturday air shows. Make the opening Sunday an appreciation day for the Oshkosh locals. Several vendors I know said they would love this. They recognize they wouldn't be able to pack up and leave until early Sunday but this would give them a day head start and be able to get back to business.

As was noted by a few others, it is tough to get food inside on Saturday or Sunday. I know that EAA has a contract (sadly a long range contract)with a large company for food services. I have a food related business and would love be a vendor. It doesn't compete with anything they do. I'm sure there are many EAA members, or family members, with food businesses that could provide service in some of these outlying areas. A couple of coffee kiosks near the shower facilities in the North 40 would pay for my next project!!!!

More water stations are desperately needed!!! They were few and far between. I saw at least 3 medical responses in homebuilt area for overheating. There used to be a drink and ice cream cart near the HBP/HBC on Knapp st. but it hasn't been there in a couple of years.

All in all, it is great event that could use some minor tweaking. Small improvements could go a long way to enhance the event.

Vender buildings

The venders pay big bucks for booth space so why not a little AC for all of us.

Richard VanGrunsven Pavillion

DanH said:

Jeff, thanks for serving on that committee....glad to hear there is an advocacy group.

My suggestion isn't really about improving the whole fly-in, but rather a detail closer to home. Any chance of a group erecting a moderate size community meeting tent in the back of HBC (perhaps along the fence), just as the Cessna and Beech owner groups do over in the North 40?

AM coffee, PM beer, shade, rain shelter, chat with other homebuilders.........

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I had a similar thought, but instead of a tent why not a nice meeting pavillion in honor of Dick. It would be a great tribute to Dick in 2012 when he is to be honored by the EAA. I'm sure contributions from the RV family would be forthcoming if they announced such a plan.

Kahuna said:

Guys,
If your intent is to tell EAA what you would like to see improved in 2012, the best place for them to hear you and take your recommendations forward is on the EAA forums. They are there and listening.

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Mike is right!

sprucemoose said:

I didn't witness this, so please clarify for me. The mass arrivals (Bonanzas, Mooneys etc) are often falsely labeled as formation arrivals. Are you saying that they attempted an actual formation arrival (ie. planes in close formation with an overhead break or other maneuver) as part of the mass arrival? That would be a new one to me, and if it happened then I stand corrected. Any Youtube videos of the event?

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The Bonanzas had actual formation flights of about 6 aircraft per each. Some of the formations were quite good. At least one flight totally scattered. I'm sure they had a fun debrief. The Bo's have much less range of viz in the cockpit than we enjoy, so I can see where it'd be hard to recover.