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Homebuilt Camping...Non Experimental

rayagriflite

I'm New Here
I'm planning on flying up to Oshkosh Friday the 27th through 29th. I own an RV-4 and Cessna 180. I plan on flying the C-180 up and come with another friend in an RV-6.

We'd prefer to bring the 180 for the extra room and camping supplies.

What's the chances the Oshkosh authorities would let us camp in homebuilt camping with our friend?
 
I'm planning on flying up to Oshkosh Friday the 27th through 29th. I own an RV-4 and Cessna 180. I plan on flying the C-180 up and come with another friend in an RV-6.

We'd prefer to bring the 180 for the extra room and camping supplies.

What's the chances the Oshkosh authorities would let us camp in homebuilt camping with our friend?

I have never seen a certified in HBC, I'm pretty sure they don't make exceptions. if you want to camp together there should be room again in GAC by Friday for both of you.
 
What's the chances the Oshkosh authorities would let us camp in homebuilt camping with our friend?

I would estimate zero. What year is the Cessna 180? If it's 1970 or earlier, you AND the RV can both camp in "showplane camping" down in the vintage area. But no way is the 180 going to go in homebuilt camping.
 
Park where you want to. Often folks do that to park next to friends.

Just bring your HBC sign and fly right behind your friend all the way so you can park next to each other. They won't know you aren't an E-AB 180 clone until you are tied down.
 
Just bring your HBC sign and fly right behind your friend all the way so you can park next to each other. They won't know you aren't an E-AB 180 clone until you are tied down.

So....knowingly break the rules and take up space that a Homebuilt airplane could be using when all of the GA parking is shut down because it is full?

Hmmmmmm......might as well grow a gum wrapper on the ground as well, since no one will notice if you do it once.
 
Rules

So....knowingly break the rules and take up space that a Homebuilt airplane could be using when all of the GA parking is shut down because it is full?

Hmmmmmm......might as well grow a gum wrapper on the ground as well, since no one will notice if you do it once.

I have not been to osh yet and still working on my -10, but I'll chime in anyway.
+10 for ironflight .They seem to already have enough problems with pilots not flying the notam'ed procedures and breaking the rules, creating a more hazardous environment.
FOLLOW THE RULES SO THAT EVERYONE CAN ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE. If your buddy wants to camp with you, tell him to build a plane or camp in GAC with him.
 
I think people are getting butthurt over assumptions. Electrogunner if you read the first post, he has an experimental...the C180 just makes more sense for taking camping gear than a RV-4. The reason we want to stick with HBC is to be around like minded people, not just those who are interested in buying a certified aircraft and flying it. Neither one is a show plane. We just want to be able to camp together. If GAC is full I'm betting they would be more than happy to find some room for others to camp as it helps their bottom line...and let's be honest, that's what these events are all about. God forbid a Cyclone 180 shows up in HBC, everyone would throw a fit thinking it was a factory 185 and parked in the wrong area.
 
If GAC is full I'm betting they would be more than happy to find some room for others to camp as it helps their bottom line...



Not true, when GAC fills up they turn them away. either way history shows GAC won't be full on Friday when you arrive.

I'll assume you're the friend since you use the term we. I suspect you and your friend probably know it's technically against the rules, regardless if he owns a home built back in his hangar. Why make the volunteers even think about having the uncomfortable conversation of having your friend move? I would suggest just going to GAC and having a good time, after all those certified types aren't all bad, most of us were them at some point.
 
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If you can't park the planes together can't you set up 2 tents at either of the planes to be able to camp together?
 
Sounds more like they're wondering how much special treatment they should get. You fly a certified in but you own a homebuilt, so you should get into the homebuilt camping? What about if you're just a partial owner of a homebuilt? What if you're in the process of building one? What if you're planning to build one?

Get enough special treatments and they should just do away with HBC and make it all general huh?

I'd wonder if these are the same kind of folks who think the NOTAM doesn't apply to them either?
 
I think people are getting butthurt over assumptions. Electrogunner if you read the first post, he has an experimental...the C180 just makes more sense for taking camping gear than a RV-4. The reason we want to stick with HBC is to be around like minded people, not just those who are interested in buying a certified aircraft and flying it. Neither one is a show plane. We just want to be able to camp together. If GAC is full I'm betting they would be more than happy to find some room for others to camp as it helps their bottom line...and let's be honest, that's what these events are all about. God forbid a Cyclone 180 shows up in HBC, everyone would throw a fit thinking it was a factory 185 and parked in the wrong area.

Well said Shane.

In 20 years we are all DEAD anyway.
Look around the next generations are looking
at their cell phones and could care less.

Enjoy the Event as Shane said.

BOOMER
 
Not true, when GAC fills up they turn them away. either way history shows GAC won't be full on Friday when you arrive.

I'll assume you're the friend since you use the term we. I suspect you and your friend probably know it's technically against the rules, regardless if he owns a home built back in his hangar. Why make the volunteers even think about having the uncomfortable conversation of having your friend move? I would suggest just going to GAC and having a good time, after all those certified types aren't all bad, most of us were them at some point.


Sounds good, we?ll plan on GAC and enjoy the camaraderie over there.
 
If you can't park the planes together can't you set up 2 tents at either of the planes to be able to camp together?

That might be an option too if HBC is important, the 180 could park in GAP and you could use the welcome wagon to schlep the gear from his 180 to your plane...
 
Are we discussing the Cessna 180 that is actually parked with a tent in darn near the first spot in HBC in the island area just west of the Blue Barn area?
 
Just bring your HBC sign and fly right behind your friend all the way so you can park next to each other. They won't know you aren't an E-AB 180 clone until you are tied down.
Sorry Bill but no. The intersection guys are good at sorting those things out, and if they miss it my crew will catch it.

As for the lone 180 out on the island, he?s been here since last Thursday. It was a special situation that we accommodated, as we sometimes do for handicapped pilots, etc. Plus, you get here that early you can pretty well pick your spot. I came Wednesday :):
 
Sorry Bill but no. The intersection guys are good at sorting those things out, and if they miss it my crew will catch it.

As for the lone 180 out on the island, he?s been here since last Thursday. It was a special situation that we accommodated, as we sometimes do for handicapped pilots, etc. Plus, you get here that early you can pretty well pick your spot. I came Wednesday :):

Thanks Jeff. A fundamental answer from someone on the ground. I haven't been in 10 years. Looking forward to the trip Friday!
 
Motivation

My first trip to OSH was in a 172 while building the RV. The goal of parking in HBC is good motivation to finish the project. Keep them separate. To really stir the pot, only builders could be allowed in HBC. Just kidding.
 
A photo with proof of TWO non-homebuilts in HBC. As I posted this on my Instagram feed with incredulity.

Screenshot-2018-7-30%20Bruce%20Hill%20%28%20brucehill1%29%20%E2%80%A2%20Instagram%20photos%20and%20videos-M.png
 
As the north 40 was filling up, some of the overflow was directed to homebuilt and Vintage camping rather than sent to Fond du Lac. That explains what you were seeing. This has been happening at some level for 3 years now, and is part of the new ?nobody gets turned away? philosophy.
 
The rest of the story on a 172 and 150 towards the west side of HBC. The 172 owner was building a RV-10. The poor guys did a couple day lay over and all the left turning and holding plus taxied To GA, North 40 and Vintage (all full) before someone relented and allowed then to camp in HBC. Before HBC they were being told they had to fly to another airport. Nice guys that enjoyed HBC and now have the incentive to jump in heavy on the RV-10 construction. They hope to fly it in to HBC for 2019.
 
I don?t think this is that difficult. If you have a homebuilt you can camp/park in HBC/HBP. If you don?t, then you can?t. Pretty simple. If you are building an airplane, then when you get it finished and fly it to the Oshkosh Airshow, then you can. If we allowed everyone building an airplane to fly in with their production airplane and camp/park with us in the homebuilt area, there wouldn?t be enough room for any of us. I don?t see the problem/mystery.
 
What did ATIS say when they arrived?

Someone, hopefully having heard a clean parking ATIS and following the NOTAM, is gonna be the one to find no room in their area upon taxi-in.

No way they should have to leave. Some folks are black and white, so- imagine you did it ALL right, then got turned away.

Bah. So, a dozen or so of 10000 planes are where they did not plan. It's too small a flying world with much bigger fish to boil.
 
So....knowingly break the rules and take up space that a Homebuilt airplane could be using when all of the GA parking is shut down because it is full?

Hmmmmmm......might as well grow a gum wrapper on the ground as well, since no one will notice if you do it once.
Thanks for the words of one who is a Homebuilt Council Member
 
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So what then happens when someone in an EAB wants to camp in HBC and are turned away because it is full due to several certified a/c parked in HBC?
It maybe all about money folks, don't let anyone get away, collect that fee! What does E A A stand for?
Maybe some sarcasm here but IMHO HBC should be HBC
 
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What did ATIS say when they arrived?

Someone, hopefully having heard a clean parking ATIS and following the NOTAM, is gonna be the one to find no room in their area upon taxi-in.

No way they should have to leave. Some folks are black and white, so- imagine you did it ALL right, then got turned away.

Bah. So, a dozen or so of 10000 planes are where they did not plan. It's too small a flying world with much bigger fish to boil.

Happened to us as well - I flew in my 9A with my uncle in his 172. When we finally got in past the furball on Monday morning, ATIS was NOT indicating anything about GAP being full - but when we landed he was informed that all GAP was full and there was no spot for him, he would have to depart the field and go somewhere else. We were right at Basler at the moment, he called BS and shutdown, walked inside to talk to Basler, and they found a spot for him to park. I taxied to HBP.
 
Regardless of what kind of plane it is, walk over to them when they get out, offer them a cold one and say "Welcome to OshKosh. How was the flight?"

Jesus, just be nice. How friggin hard is that?
 
There is nothing mean about controlling the HBC area reserved for HBC folks. Osh can find room for some overflow without filling up HBC with Cessna's. If we just throw our hands in air and start parking over flow wherever then in a few years HBC will be non existent. If that is ok with folks then so be it. Food for thought
 
I walked around HBC on Sunday, Monday and Wednesday - it wasn't even close to being full. Nothing wrong with sharing.
 
Regardless of what kind of plane it is, walk over to them when they get out, offer them a cold one and say "Welcome to OshKosh. How was the flight?"

Jesus, just be nice. How friggin hard is that?

This guy gets it!

Just for the record we both parked in GAC and had a wonderful experience. Met some great neighbors and had a few drinks. The line guys were nice enough to accommodate us so we could park together. It worked out great. We had a wonderful time I expect we'll be back next year....GAC and all.
 
Last time I flew in was with another RV and a classic triple tail Bellanca. We all camped in Classic. Never once heard any disparaging comments about the "ramp flea" RVs being parked with all the 195's, Waco's, and other real airplanes. Seems like there is room to accomodate everyone's needs without it turning into an unrecognizable melting pot.
 
About 9 years ago, 3 planes made the flight from Utah, an RV4, a 9A, and a C182. All 3 planes sported GAC signs and camped together in the North 40. It never occurred to us to even ask about HBC.
 
It would be a heartbreaker

I?ve been working longer than I want to admit on my obsolete 6-A. I can?t imagine after all these years and being a EAA member for 31 years of flying my pride and joy into Osh only to be turned away from the HBC and forced down into the South Forty ( worst place I can Imagine) :eek: because of spam cans taking up space in HBC. Homebuilts like to flock together. At least that?s what I hear.
And aren?t homebuilts the backbone of the EAA. :)
 
Next time I fly in, I'll do GAC to help keep HBC sterile.

Please consider not filling this sterotype. Most of my buds are vintage and warbird owners in the KOSH context. I've always been an EAB owner, they don't care.
 
I got turned away from HBC at SnF. I was flying my Maule with my wife and son. My buddy was in my Kitfox. I did not know if it was allowed or not so we tried to camp together at HBC. The Maule was not allowed so we went to GAC together. No problem the rules are the rules.

Here is a scenario where there will be an issue at OSH. The field gets closed to general aviation except Experimentals, Vintage, Warbirds because of wet ground. No problem says the Cessna driver I am going to HBC anyway. Now HBC could be full in the blink of an eye and Experimentals are turned away.

I have nothing but fond memories of Cessnas, Maules, Aeroncas, and Pipers and love all airplanes. However, reserved areas are reserved for a reason.

Now what I want to do is figure out how to mass arrive with the Bonanza's in my RV-10. LOL
 
Now what I want to do is figure out how to mass arrive with the Bonanza's in my RV-10. LOL

Precisely correct. If I have to share space in HBC with the certifieds, then they have to share space with me in the mass arrivals. Fair is fair, move over and make room.
 
Precisely correct. If I have to share space in HBC with the certifieds, then they have to share space with me in the mass arrivals. Fair is fair, move over and make room.

It may say RV-9A on the data plate but she identifies as a Bonanza! :D
 
So....knowingly break the rules and take up space that a Homebuilt airplane could be using when all of the GA parking is shut down because it is full?

Hmmmmmm......might as well grow a gum wrapper on the ground as well, since no one will notice if you do it once.


Yeah, what Mr. Dye said.
 
If EAA air venture keeps growing in the number of airplanes and people as it apparently has every year maybe they could open an area east of the 36/18 runways all the way east of the taxiway over there. Of course I have no idea if thats feasible or not and no doubt it would create many logistical problems as well.... like how do those folks get across the active runway areas to the main show areas. I looked at the google earth 2011 view which was taken during air venture. With airplanes tucked into every nook and cranny of the field, there is simply no place else to grow.

Another thought that I hope NEVER crosses their mind is having a requirement that folks reserve... AKA buy... a spot for the week long before the show. Like tickets to a concert BEFORE you get here. They have so many seats and can sell only so many tickets. If you reserve/buy a spot for the week, then leave in three days you've worked out a deal with another owner to sell your remaining time to him. What a mess that would be and it completely removes the "fly in" feeling Osh needs to maintain.

As far as the 'certs' wanting a spot in HBC if their parking/camping areas are full... my first thought was no. Removing any emotions from the thought process, it becomes a little clearer. Of course folks should park where they're types are but if theirs is full. I don't see the EAA turning those funds away. I believe HBC would be forced to accommodate them. I would vote no to allowing them in but if it comes down to it, like someone already mentioned.... I would prefer to maintain a gentlemanly atmosphere, approach them with a cold one and say welcome aboard!
 
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After reading all the arrival problems threads, if all those people that claim they will not return keep their word, parking may not be a problem next year.
 
If EAA air venture keeps growing in the number of airplanes and people as it apparently has every year maybe they could open an area east of the 36/18 runways all the way east of the taxiway over there. Of course I have no idea if thats feasible or not and no doubt it would create many logistical problems as well.... like how do those folks get across the active runway areas to the main show areas.

Same way they get around 9/27 now.
 
Same way they get around 9/27 now.

the other issue is that they use that East taxiway as 18R/36L, and there isn't a ton of room between that and the fence. I don't see the FAA allowing people/planes over there that close to the runway.

Using google earth there is approximately 500 ft from the attendee barrier to the center line of the main runway (18L), and only ~450 ft from the center of the taxiway that is used as 18R to the fence.

There is still some vehicle parking/camping(I think it's for the warbird owners $$$$) inside the fence, between HBC and N40. That's really the only real estate left that I can see where you could put airplanes. The other option would be tail to tail parking in the parking areas to get more airplanes per row, but that would be (even more-so) flirting with disaster in a storm.
 
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The other option would be tail to tail parking in the parking areas to get more airplanes per row, but that would be (even more-so) flirting with disaster in a storm.

In storm conditions, all bets are off, even at a paved tie-down apron so I don't think this really has much traction as a consideration. I can see HBC (or any camping site) wanting to stay as single-plane parking but all the HBP/GAP could go tail to tail without any real problems, beyond pilots having to push airplanes around for final parking position rather than power in.
 
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