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Delay of game?

scard

Well Known Member
Advertiser
So, I took a little time off work this holiday and got to thinking.... I wonder how would be the most fun to cut a new instrument panel (among other things)?
Then, out of the blue (literally!!) this thing fell in my lap at a moments notice for not even a song the day after Christmas! Holy cow, Santa Clause really is real.
It was removed, with my help, "In Service". How often does that happen. It was too heavy for the skid steer, with it's hydraulic bypass saying "yeah, no, try again." But where there is a will, there is a way.
Oh boy, I have some CNC controls to bring into the current decade. Life is good.

What is it? It is a fixed gantry, 4'x4' CNC router, with three 5hp spindles, made by a company called Standard Router Inc. that went out of business in 2005. It is all very heavy steel (can you say RIGID) with a solid 1.5" thick aluminum table setup for vacuum hold down. After having moved it, I'm guessing it weighs over 4000#. I have powered it up in the shop but am already in the process of tearing down the controls for a major update.

Keep pounding those rivets, or whatever else makes you happy. I guess I'll accept the delay of game penalty.

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Scott, please let us know once you?ve added the automated material loader/unloader and the internet website for g-code upload. We?ll queue up our cutting projects. All you will need to do is ship us the finished cuts parts. :D
 
Wow, what a score! What's it need for power? The few times I have had a chance to pick up something ridiculously great like that, it required power that I just couldn't swing.
 
Might have some wingtip molds to have you cut in the future. About a year from now maybe.
 
you will have lots of fun with that. we have two of them, from a different manufacture and bigger beds, they are amazing what can be done with them.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
Your shop is too small...... :D
I've been hearing this a lot lately. I don't get it :). I can still get in and move around the existing projects.

Wow, what a score! What's it need for power? The few times I have had a chance to pick up something ridiculously great like that, it required power that I just couldn't swing.
Not that big of a deal. You just have to have a good relationship with the wife via text from the shop "No heavy loads for the next hour please." She knows that means don't turn on the clothes dryer, oven, and Air Conditioner all at the same time. She measured "her loads" and I measured "mine". We're good otherwise. I have 200A and am setup to use every drop. Non-compliance from the wife means EVERYTHING goes dark for both of us at the street :). (She knows how to reset, and we've never had an issue.)

Might have some wingtip molds to have you cut in the future. About a year from now maybe.
Perfect. Just about the time this thing probably moves under it's own power again. Not! New control equipment order hopefully going out tomorrow. Beware, this is still a hobby project. At least for now :).

The multi-spindle head setup will make tool-change a breeze!
So quaint isn't it. Just like it was 1999 :). I had to do a double take when I saw it. "..Ahhh, no Automatic Tool Changer back then in this category?"
 
Cool

Hi Scott,
That's a cool find!
I've had some experience maintaining and programming one that was similar.
That was about 20 years ago.... You can do some cool things for sure. You can also tear up things really fast if you forget a minus (-) sign!Lol.

I can tell from the control panel that it's a 3-phase machine.
Hopefully you have 3-phase power in your shop and if you do that is REALLY cool!

Mark
 
Beast of a machine

That is a beast of a machine! I'm always surprised what businesses will surplus once their needs change, or a newer piece of equipment comes in.

I have a 36 X 36 light duty CNC router and find the programming to be the biggest obstacle for the hobbyist size pocket book. Decent 2 1/2 D stuff out there cheap, but 3D (at least that I have found) really pushes the budget. You'll have to post what programs you are using once you have that part down.
 
Scott, I would think twice before ripping the old controls out, or at least keep the servo drives and the VFD's. VFD's work by converting AC into DC then back to AC, so most can be ran off single phase input. Most axis drives use step/direction inputs and work fine with Mach3, and also can be ran on single phase. I have done a couple of Mach3 conversions and helped friends do them, and in most cases we retained some parts of the controls to make reliable systems running on Mach3. Mach3/4 has its flaws and in some cases isn't as good as an older control. I have a turret lathe which uses an old Fanuc OT control and was able to modify the post-processor I use with Solidworks/HSMWorks and it works just as well as my Mach3 machines. I use CNCDrive UC100's to drive the axis drives and am very happy with them. Hope this helps.
 
Just keep 3-phase

I built a machine shop in my back yard. I have a 14x40 Engine Lathe, a Prototrak CNC, and a surface grinder that all run off of 3-phase. To run a third leg onto my property and pay the monthly fee was not worth it. So I bought a 15 hp 3-phase motor and wired up to produce the third phase....cost $400 for the motor and $200 for the 3-phase panel.....works like a charm!:)
 
If the control works fine I'd be hesitant to rip it out. I've got a LinuxCNC based milling machine and can tell you from experience that retrofitting with PC based controls is a never ending game. Industrial controls are much more robust, although pricy to fix. What are you planning on using for control?

Also, +1 for building a rotary phase converter if you don't have 3-phase. I've got a 7.5hp converter that cost me around $150 and runs my lathe, drill press, grinder, and air compressor. All the good machine tools are 3-phase and 3-phase tools tend to be cheaper.
 
Yep, it is three phase and my shop has a phase converter putting out the third leg for all of my machines. Works fine. For the first pass, I'll be retaining existing servos (SEM) and adding newer encoders and ditching the tach. The new controller will probably be Centroid. The inverters and spindles will probably stick around for a while, but I'm not going to mess with the complexities of multiple spindle control just yet.
That should get us to the point of cutting something without having to mess around with the ancient Fagor / SEM controls.
 
The old SEM DC servos use encoders with an incandescent bulb and they're difficult to align when replacing the bulb. I've replaced them with magnetic encoders, used the existing supplies and a modern servo drive.
 
... "No heavy loads for the next hour please." She knows that means don't turn on the clothes dryer, oven, and Air Conditioner all at the same time. She measured "her loads" and I measured "mine". We're good otherwise. ...

This is funny to me as we have 400A 3 phase from the power company (No convertors) and up until about a year ago whenever we would spin up a big spindle or run the Magnaflux machine our lights would dim a little. Then the power company was out replacing lines and doing some major upgrades so I asked the guys if there was anything they could do to help. They looked into it and found out the transformer on the power pole out front that was feeding us and the neighbor house was severely undersized. Like scary undersized.

They quickly replaced it and our power problems went away. I later found out that the neighbors had been complaining to the power company that their lights were constantly flickering and burning out lots of bulbs. Turns out our shop was causing their problems as well because of the undersized transformer!! :eek:


Very cool find you have there. We recently found a gun drilling machine for a steal of a deal also. Even though it was on the other side of the country it was still worth it!!! Keep on the lookout for some new products coming from our shop...
 
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Yep, it is three phase and my shop has a phase converter putting out the third leg for all of my machines. Works fine. For the first pass, I'll be retaining existing servos (SEM) and adding newer encoders and ditching the tach. The new controller will probably be Centroid. The inverters and spindles will probably stick around for a while, but I'm not going to mess with the complexities of multiple spindle control just yet.
That should get us to the point of cutting something without having to mess around with the ancient Fagor / SEM controls.

So you have 2 phase electrical power? How does that work?
 
Most everybody does, though it's generally called "split phase." Power is supplied on two lines 180° out of phase at 120V each; when measured between the two legs ("phases"), you get 240V. When measured between one leg and ground, you get 120V. The 120V circuits throughout your house are each on one leg (half) of the 240V circuit coming in (roughly balanced across the two); the 240V lines (stove/oven, electric dryer, etc.) are on both legs.
 
Most everybody does, though it's generally called "split phase." Power is supplied on two lines 180? out of phase at 120V each; when measured between the two legs ("phases"), you get 240V. When measured between one leg and ground, you get 120V. The 120V circuits throughout your house are each on one leg (half) of the 240V circuit coming in (roughly balanced across the two); the 240V lines (stove/oven, electric dryer, etc.) are on both legs.

To add to this, there are a couple ways to get 3 Phase out. There are simple and cheap Phase Convertors which are basically some simple electronics and capacitors. These can run a motor at 2/3 rated horsepower. Good for low HP, low work load applications.
The better way is to team up the Phase Convertor with a 3 Phase Motor. The convertor is used to start the motor. The motor then generates 3 Phase power up to its rated capacity. These are called Rotary Phase Convertors.
I try to buy any equipment I can 3 Phase. Single Phase motors can "bog down" where a like rated Three Phase machine with its extra torque will not.

Great catch Scott. One of my hobbies is rescuing "old iron" and putting it back to purposeful use.

By the way, your shop was too small before you ever started. If you built it twice as big, it would be too small, three times, same.... there is no end for us machine tool heads.
 
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