Point of no return, start up flying lesson !

Yesterday I went to Sunrise Aviation flight school and booked my start up lesson ! I will be flying on May 28th !
Ground school will start in the July, so should I book few flying lesson before school? How many?
I was told that it should take me about 60-75 hour in flight to complete my learning. I would love to save some money and do it closer to 60 hours than 75 hours. What should I do get the most out off every flight hour?
I want to finish by the end off the year, however money may not be there. Looks like I will be spending way over $10k

Bert,
Three things:
1) good on ya for getting started. That's usually the hardest part. Now, keep plugging and get it done!
2) I personally recommend getting a lot of the ground school done first. Just the initial basic stuff that goes over basic flight. Maybe the first several days/nights.
3) Don't expect to get it done within some certain number of hours. When the CFI says you're ready, you're ready. That may take less than 60 hours....or more.

Best of luck!

Congratulations!

Different training and study techniques work for different people.

One common observation on the number of flight hours to solo, cross country, and you check ride is to fly OFTEN. This prevents the student from having to re-learn.

It is different for everyone. A good rule of thumb I use with students is to book 3 flights every week in hopes that you get two flight in. I understand it's not realistic for many student pilots. However, it is effective to reducing your total flight training hours in the airplane.

Great job on starting Bert,

I'll give you my story. I just got my PPL in Nov, 2014. I'm 54 years old and have always wanted to fly, but life happened, etc... I was finally able to jump in last year and it took me 6 months to get my license. I agree with Humpty that if you have the funds available, you should try to schedule 2-3 flights per week. I averaged 2 and it worked out great. If you are able to stick with that cadence, you should be able to finish in under 60 hours.

I was able to solo at 8 and finish in 53 hours by sticking with that schedule, but it really doesn't matter how many hours it takes you to complete. My feeling was the more hours flying the better.

I decided to take my written towards the end of my training so I would have that info fresh in my mind for the checkride, but that's a matter of preference. Just keep to a steady schedule of studying and you will know when you are ready. If you get >80 on 3 practice exams than go ahead and take the written.

It's a big commitment, but totally rewarding. Good luck!

Dave

Train often

You got good advise.
Ask yourself how you learn. By reading, listening or doing.
Whichever it is discuss it with your ground and flight instructors. It will shorten the learning curve. Train as often as you can. If it's ground first, study daily. Once you fly, two or three a week if you can.

Personally, I agree with ground first. The flight time will make more sense.

A few observations I can share having just gotten my PPL:

1) the only way to save money by reducing hours it to fly more often. One or two flights a week, it will take you 9-12 months and 60-75 hours to do it. It did for me. Think about it, you learn something in month 2, then don't do it for 10 months. You're are going to have to go back and knock the rust off that skill to pass the test. That takes flight time. Have the money ready and pound out as many lessons as often as you can.

2) You're going to spend $10k, accept it or find another hobby!

3) Schedule your first 3 flights with a different instructor. Find a CFI that teaches they way you learn, and you get along with well. Your going to be spending alot of time shoulder to shoulder. Remember your the paying customer, they work for you, don't hesitate to change instructors if things just are not working out for you.

4) Work on getting your class 3 medical now. Go to your regular GP first and make sure everything (blood pressure, vision, medication your on, etc.) is good to go before going to the AME. If something medically comes up, you got time to address it now before you need to have your medical (before your solo.)

5) While the instructor will be going over the material in ground school you need to pass the exams, the bulk of the learning will be studying on your own time so set started now. Go buy the pilots manual they will be using (Gleim, Jepson, etc.) and read through it. You won't understand it yet, but you'll get a feel of what you will be doing. Might as well start memorizing the stuff that you simply will have remember through rote memorization such as the A,B,C,D,E, and G airspaces, weather minimums for each airspace, the V speeds (and what they are for the aircraft your training in.) etc.

Good luck, have fun!

When I was teaching lessons I found that there are so many different skills involved ( math, weather, mechanical understanding, legal problems, physics, physical dexterity, coordination, etc.) that everybody has problems with something. If you cold think through all this and find your weak spots first you may be able to get a jump on things. Controlling the airplane through the sky is just a small part of it.

Thanks guys.
Sounds like at this point I should save as much money as possible, so I can book 3 flights a week for the first few months. Flying is not cheap, lol.
I would love to build and fly RV-3B. It will probably take a long time, 5-6 years if I stay motivated. I wanted to start this year, however I want to get pilot license first, just to make sure that flying is what I really want to do. It is an expensive hobby and I am still in 99% group.
I just bought "Stick and Rudder" book, are there any other good books about flying?

Best of luck to you! Flying is fun, but I don't think I need to say that here. I'm a reformed airline pilot now working for a respected leader in the training field. I spent a few years as a CFI in the GA world too. Others have given great advice, this is mine:

1) Get a medical. Makes no sense to start, only to be denied a medical.

2) If you want to get through by spending less, you're going to have to commit the time and the up-front expense. 3 times a week is a good goal. Even if the weather is crappy, spend the time (and money) and take an hour or two with your CFI. If it's the first time you've been in a classroom setting in a long time it's a tough adjustment and the extra time will pay off with more knowledge. Your ground school may be very generic (especially if the school has a varied fleet or you take it at a community college) and this is a great time to get more specific with the make and model you're training in, or dig deeper in the hangar which may come in handy when you start building your RV.

3) Ground school should correspond with your flight training. The airplane isn't the place to learn the "why". It's where you learn the "how" and it will all come together in the airplane.

4) You don't need to rent the newest, shiniest, most advanced cockpit airplane at the FBO. Push yoke forward: cows get bigger. Pull back, cows get smaller. Private pilots need to look outside to get the fundamentals of flight. Save the fancy stuff for instrument training.

5) NEVER give a huge amount of cash to a flight school, even if they offer some sort of bulk rate discount. Flight schools come and go. Many have lost lots of money when they showed up for a lesson and the doors were boarded up and the ramp empty. Keep it in your savings account, and pay as you go.

6) Don't stop at your private rating. The instrument and commercial will save you tons in insurance if you plan to own one day and will make you a safer pilot even if you never use them.

Location

Something else.
If you have access to multiple locations, find one away from tower airspace. Uncontrolled airport. You'll save money driving a little. When you take off, you will be closer to the training area instead of paying to sit on the tarmac waiting for a clearance then flying half an hour to the training area. That plane/CFI time is expensive.
Others may disagree but it saved me a ton. We flew into Class D when we wanted to practice tower ops.

Congrats on first step.

To add to all fine points above...

-Don't penny pinch or get too worried about cutting hours. I learned in the L.A. Basin and it will take more hours than if you took lessons out of Bismarck, ND. The airspace, traffic, communications complexities will almost certainly put you 70+ hours. But, you will have the confidence to fly most everywhere.

-Get an airband scanner or listen to ATC online as much as you can. ATC communications can almost sound like a different language in the beginning. As I have always heard, if you can drive a stick shift car you can fly an airplane. It's the communications and navigation AND flying, happening at the same time, which brings the stakes up.

-Get rid of anything that will distract you now... Xbox, Motorcycles, Jet-skis, fancy cars, girlfriends... put em all on ebay for more money to put towards your flying. You can get all that stuff back later.

Once you land the plane knowing your instructor was hands off, you'll be hooked. Enjoy!

enielsen said:

To add to all fine points above...

-Get rid of anything that will distract you now... Xbox, Motorcycles, Jet-skis, fancy cars, girlfriends... put em all on ebay for more money to put towards your flying. You can get all that stuff back later.

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Best advice yet.

One great technique is to find a buddy at about your same level and learn together. You can sit in on each other's ground lessons and even though it's not loggable, you can learn a ton riding in the back seat watching your buddie's lessons and vice versa. Then you can debrief together afterwards and motivate each other. There will be concepts that each of you will quickly grasp that can help the other see the light.

When I was actively instructing I always tried to pair students up and it always shaved at least 20% off their time needed to finish up. It also made for some lifelong friendships.

Regarding the ground school materials, I think you should start with the FAA airplane flying handbook and pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge. You can supplement those with other stuff like the king online videos which I found very helpful.

One little thing. Make absolutely SURE you can pass the third class medical BEFORE you attempt it. If you try and get denied, you're done flying pretty much anything that will get you from Point A to Point B. If you just don't get one, you can still fly with Sport Pilot privileges - think RV-12, which is no slouch of an airplane.

As others have noted, fly as often as you can. If I were in CA I'd budget $10K... I think I spent around $7K a couple of years ago, but I think it's a lot more expensive there.

An see if there's a flying club out there that will get you cheaper flight time. I did part of my training flying some pretty ratty rental Cherokees at about $100/hr., and finished up in a fairly nice 172 for about $85 an hour - and I had the keys to the hangar and could fly pretty much whenever I pleased. That's really nice.

Lean to fly by outside references first,attitude flying, I found myself trying to chase the instruments in the beginning, finally started to fly descent by looking outside. Chair flying greatly helped me with the flight manuevers.

Hey Robert,

Congratulations! You are going to love it. If Sunrise still has a Diamond DA-20, try to get your first flight in that.

Much great advice posted here by others. If you like, you can borrow my Sporty's pilot training course DVDs...a good overview of what to expect in a very easy to assimilate format. Give me a call, or drop by on a weeknight if you want to pick it up.

--Doug

Waterobert said:

are there any other good books about flying?

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The FAA has published the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. I used it extensively and found it to be a fantastic resource.

I actually used it more than any other publication I paid for.

It's a free download from this web link:

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/

Here is what it covers:

Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge FAA-H-8083-25A

?The color illustrations are excellent. The text is very similar to what you will see on the written test questions.

I agree on what others said about the third class medical. That was my first step. I recommend you do that before spending a bunch of money.

I couldn't find a ground school in my area so I self studied and took flying lessons at the same time. Not optimal, at least not for me. I wish I could have gotten all the ground school knowledge prior to flying.

Good luck,

Good info in this thread!

How do you know if you need to fly under the sport pilot rules, flying LSA aircraft (use your drivers license as your medical instead of getting a 3rd class medical)? Are you on any meds? Do you have any medical conditions? If so, join the AOPA. Heck join them anyway, along with the EAA. The AOPA has a program which can tell you what the FAA thinks of your meds and medical conditions and what's required by the FAA for your to be able to get your medical and fly. Find that out BEFORE you go get your medical. If you fail your medical first, you can't just start flying with a driver's license for your medical. It can get ugly...

The LSA RV-12 has a cruise speed that's right around the Cessna 172's. True you can't put as much stuff in it as you can a 172, but you can still do a lot of traveling. All the other RV's will smoke an RV-12 in cruise speed, but they'll smoke the 172 also. Of course they can't do at 4 to 4.5 gallons of auto fuel an hour!

Training -

Fly everyday that you can. As has already been mentioned, the more frequently you fly, the less total hours it will take to get your license, therefore the less dollars it will take our of your pocket. Even if you are able to schedule everyday for flying, you won't be able too because of the weather or even just the wind blowing too hard for where you're at in skill level. Remember the 'Old' saying...'There are Old pilots and there are BOLD pilots (I should add Stupid pilots here as well...), but there are no OLD BOLD pilots!

Hang out at a couple of flight schools if you can. Talk to the other students, find out how often they fly, what they like about their instructor and what they don't like. Ask how many hours they have in training and over what period of time. Like everything else in life, not every personality is a good fit with your personality. It's important to find an instructor that fits you. Remember though, you're not necessarily trying to find the nicest CFI in the room.

While it may not be common, watch out for this...We have a local CFI is that is really a super nice person, but they are also known as the 'milk-er'. They are not really interested in getting you out the door as efficiently as they can. Why, because they make more money training you, than passing you. How can you tell? If you spend a lot of training sessions just going out and flying around with them in right seat. And don't do this to yourself! You may need to do that every now and then, just to enjoy the flight; to have fun and to remember what it is about flying that draws you passionately into looking up into the sky every time an airplane flies over. But every time you fly you need to be training and working on something. Training is hard work, just like training for a sport. You may not really have a lot of fun training until its all starting to click for you; until you start to become a pilot.

Join the EAA and the local chapter or at least go to their meetings. Talk to them find out what they've done, and who they go see for their reviews. Get some pointers, learn the lay of the land when it comes to training in your local area (and maybe even get a ride!).

Besides the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge mentioned earlier, there's also available for free:

• 
  AIM - Airman's Information Manual

• 
  Airplane Flying Handbook

• Student Pilot Guide

If you have a tablet you can save them off as a pdf and load them on!

There are DVD's on subjects like taking off, landing or entire courses put out by the likes of King Schools and Sporty's. I also have these converted and installed on my iPad.

The Plane

Consider buying a used plane for your training and beyond. Aircraft can be financed over a longer period of time (10 to 15 years), than a car. This can make a monthly plane payment cheaper than rental. There are down sides to this that you need to be aware of though. The biggie is maintenance. If something goes wrong with your plane, its your wallet it comes out of. Still, many people use this approach quite successfully. Research, research and then do some more research.

You can get into an older (sometimes much older) Cessna 172 or Piper 140-ish, that would make a good trainer for less than $200 - $300 a month. Look at the rental rates and you'll see that you can easily spend that in one week of aircraft rental. As many will tell you, there are a lot of other things to consider when purchasing an older aircraft, but research it and see if its an option for you.

If you do decide to look at buying there are owners groups that can help you. There are owners guides and buyers guides like the http://www.cessna.org/buyers-guide-172-excerpts.

Don't forget the experimental world when thinking of going this way, but check on insurance. Many times it would be difficult to get insurance on some aircraft with just a student pilots license. That goes for some commercially built aircraft as well.

Insurance

And speaking of insurance, make sure if you rent an aircraft you have renters insurance. There's always a deductible that has to be covered by someone in the event of a accident, even minor ones.

Its just plain/plane fun to fly!

This is a journey, a fun, loveable journey. You will never forget the first time you take off, in control of an aircraft. You will never forget your solo, your first cross-country or becoming a pilot. Enjoy the journey! You will never be the same again.

Bob

Simulator

I have Microsoft Flight Simulator on my home computer and found this very helpful in practicing my last lessons or the upcoming ones.

Thank you for your tips. I am only 46 years old and still in a good shape, so I should pass physical exam without problem. But you never know. I picked flight school 10 miles away from my work so I can book lessons at 4 pm during the week. Unfortunately, this place is the most expensive and it is located at a big airport. Other schools are 30-50 miles drive, so that would be difficult to get there on time. I will do a lot more thinking before I make my final choice.
Thanks again for your support.

I looked around and found two schools 30-40 miles from my work with instructors willing to fly after 6 pm. Price for renting plane is about $40 less than at my original airport. That is such a big difference when you think about it.

Waterobert said:

I looked around and found two schools 30-40 miles from my work with instructors willing to fly after 6 pm. Price for renting plane is about $40 less than at my original airport. That is such a big difference when you think about it.

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True, but that means you have to fight rush-hour traffic after work (along with the anxiety that comes from being stuck in traffic and potentially missing your lesson) and won't be able to do daytime flights when daylight savings time "falls back." Then again, night VFR is good practice!! If you can cram more lesson in on the weekends, the more distant airports make more sense.

DaleB said:

As others have noted, fly as often as you can. If I were in CA I'd budget $10K... I think I spent around $7K a couple of years ago, but I think it's a lot more expensive there.

An see if there's a flying club out there that will get you cheaper flight time. I did part of my training flying some pretty ratty rental Cherokees at about $100/hr., and finished up in a fairly nice 172 for about $85 an hour - and I had the keys to the hangar and could fly pretty much whenever I pleased. That's really nice.

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$10k is cheap! Getting your PPL in Australia will typically cost you about AUD$25-$30k (currently US$17.5-21k). Rental rate on a 1970 C172 is around AUD$220/hr (wet).

Waterobert said:

I looked around and found two schools 30-40 miles from my work with instructors willing to fly after 6 pm. Price for renting plane is about $40 less than at my original airport. That is such a big difference when you think about it.

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It is.

Another consideration is finding the right instructor for you.

I am not sure why the hours needed to get a private has creeped up over the years. I suspect it has to do with liability. I taught 200 plus students and I do not think any of my private students ever took 50 hours and I was embarrassed about that one. At the time I was working for a part 141 school and the target was to get them through in 35 hours which we had approval to do. Are there any 141 schools in existence any more? I have not taught a private since 1990.

My best advice is to find a glider operation. Take a few instruction flights. You will learn the aircraft will fly without a fan turning and how one can safely land without a fan. Energy management is the key. A pilot needs to know and understand the operation of a power plane and the rules of operation (radio, traffic, etc.) but too many folks don't have an understanding of fundamentals of what keeps a aircraft in the air. Too often someone is pulling the stick back when that results in the stall that kills. Just my two cents

Thank you for your support.
Doug, thank you for letting me borrow dvd. This week I will see how bad traffic is around 4pm towards Corona airport. If I leave my work at 3:30 maybe I could take my traning at that airport. John Wayne is still my first choice, however $12-17k price is hard to accept if other places want $8-12k.
Thanks

You're doing the right thing by shopping around and weighing all the pros and cons. The insidious thing about John Wayne is that it's the better part of a mile to taxi from Dove St. (where Sunrise's rental planes are kept) to the hold short line at 19L...with the Hobbs ticking all the while, of course.

One of the great things about Sunrise is that they'll put you in a Citabria and have you initiate and recover from a spin. Many schools teach spin/stall avoidance, but don't have you recover from the real thing. That was a fun day in my training...I did a couple of loops and aileron rolls in the practice area as well.

Take a week or more of vacation and cram as much flying into that week as possible. Fly twice a day. Make your own aviation summer camp
Drive to corona and back will be opposite the traffic...
Git er done!

DM

The fast way

If you can afford the time I would highly recommend simply finding a good CFI and "renting them and a plane" for 8-9 days and flying like mad. I did it this way in 42 hrs and was really happy I did. Go somewhere where it is non towered, has good weather and you can just get it done. For my rotary wing I did the opposite, one bit at a time, and and found it much more inefficient

I found this to be a great source of info when I was training.. I read and studied it often. It's a compilation of a lot of information from an old timer flight instructor.
http://www.whittsflying.com/web/page0Major_topic_headings.htm

Charles in SC said:

I am not sure why the hours needed to get a private has creeped up over the years. I suspect it has to do with liability. I taught 200 plus students and I do not think any of my private students ever took 50 hours and I was embarrassed about that one. At the time I was working for a part 141 school and the target was to get them through in 35 hours which we had approval to do. Are there any 141 schools in existence any more? I have not taught a private since 1990.

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It's also possible that in these busy days, student schedules don't permit solid flying hours each week. If there are substantial delays in the lessons then there's a bit of catching up to do.