Van's Air Force
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Harness Failure...
- Thread starter danielhv
- Start date
One of the Snowbirds pilots had a belt come undone during a practise. He managed to get the plane upright and fly out of it, even though he was in the middle of a low-level roll when it failed. As I recall it didn't dump him completely onto the canopy, but one side came free and he was headed there. If it was a sustained inverted manoeuver it may not have ended so well. One of their (fatal) accidents is believed to have been caused by a belt failure but they were unable to conclusively determine that after the fact.
The lap belt is mandatory for any competitions, IIRC.
The lap belt is mandatory for any competitions, IIRC.
I heard a story from a pilot about trying to urinate in a bottle while flying an open cockpit biplane. He had to unlatch the belt in order to gain access to his thingamajig...while squirming up the seat back, he slipped and nudged the control stick which tossed the plane into negative g. Of course, he started floating out of the cockpit and managed to catch the side rails with his knees as he floated by...
The good news was that he didn't need the bottle anymore...
The good news was that he didn't need the bottle anymore...
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Yeah but...
...he needed a roll of toilet paper
Best,
...he needed a roll of toilet paper
Best,
In his book, Bob Hoover tells the story of how it happened to him while inverted very close to the runway during a routine. It's a very funny read as he describes being pressed against the canopy and flying the airplane at the same time. I'm sure it was far from funny at the time, however.
Double belts?
..
I've never seen an RV with two sets of belts for the pilot, though I know its done in competition aerobatic aircraft. Do you know if anyone has done it in an RV?
I thought about installing a two point lap belt in addition to the full hooker harness I have in the 7A, but did not. The principal advantage would be the ability to undo the hooker harness for more mobility while trying to reach around the cockpit or grab something from the back, yet still have lap belt security. The hooker set up is sort of all or none -- no way to undo the shoulder harnesses only.
FYI: Last fall, on a windy bumpy day, both I and another RV-builder-pilot headbumped the canopy hard in a slam of turbulence in the VA mountains. (Clearly the lapbelts were not tight enough if I was able to reach the canopy with my melon.) I would not expect that the canopy would keep me from ejecting if my harness cut away while in an inverted manuever. And I hope to never find out.
Mike
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I've never seen an RV with two sets of belts for the pilot, though I know its done in competition aerobatic aircraft. Do you know if anyone has done it in an RV?
I thought about installing a two point lap belt in addition to the full hooker harness I have in the 7A, but did not. The principal advantage would be the ability to undo the hooker harness for more mobility while trying to reach around the cockpit or grab something from the back, yet still have lap belt security. The hooker set up is sort of all or none -- no way to undo the shoulder harnesses only.
FYI: Last fall, on a windy bumpy day, both I and another RV-builder-pilot headbumped the canopy hard in a slam of turbulence in the VA mountains. (Clearly the lapbelts were not tight enough if I was able to reach the canopy with my melon.) I would not expect that the canopy would keep me from ejecting if my harness cut away while in an inverted manuever. And I hope to never find out.
Mike
Brantel
Well Known Member
Yep, I also doubt that you would have to worry about controlling the airplane if your harness let go during an negative G maneuver. My bet is you would find yourself outside the airplane.....These canopies are fragile enough without a meat bomb hitting em from the inside.
This brings up a point about the rotary cam lock buckles. It would be easy to turn them accidently and find yourself un buckled.
RV's can hurt you if you do not keep your belts tight. The crotch strap helps a ton in this area. Keep it as low and tight as you can....Getting knocked out would not be a good thing.
This brings up a point about the rotary cam lock buckles. It would be easy to turn them accidently and find yourself un buckled.
RV's can hurt you if you do not keep your belts tight. The crotch strap helps a ton in this area. Keep it as low and tight as you can....Getting knocked out would not be a good thing.
I think that depends on the rotary buckle Brian. The early model Crow I have would be very hard to accidental turn - there aren't any "ribs" to catch, and it takes a fairly positive action to get it to rotate.
Lots of high performance airplanes have (and depend on) rotary buckles - which isn't to say that the high performance competition aerobatic places don't have those back-up belts as well!
Just FYI, I have had the old-style military "lever"-type buckles get snagged and open up on me - several times. Get a cord under the lever, and with the right motion - "pop"! Loose belts everywhere....
Paul
Brantel
Well Known Member
Guess so...mine have "ribs" or cuttouts...Something would have to catch them just right but it could happen. Did not know the earlier ones did not have those "ribs"...
Regardless, I love my Crows!!! I love the camlock!! Makes getting in and out a breeze! Way easier for fat boys like me!
Regardless, I love my Crows!!! I love the camlock!! Makes getting in and out a breeze! Way easier for fat boys like me!
Sid Lambert
Well Known Member
I once heard an airshow announcer doing his bit for hooker ratchet harnesses. He said, "If the pilots butt comes 1/8" off the seat he thinks he has left the airplane."
When I accidentally go negative my knees automatically go out against the side of the fuselage and I realize if the belt fails I'm probably going for one **** of a ride.
When I accidentally go negative my knees automatically go out against the side of the fuselage and I realize if the belt fails I'm probably going for one **** of a ride.
N941WR
Legacy Member
As Paul said, the gooseneck buckles can be caught by a shirt sleeve or watch. Not a good thing.
A friend had his come undone while rolling his Sonex. With one hand on the canopy and the other on the stick he rolled it upright just in time and put his belt back on. The thought he possibly didn't latch it fully before the flight.
As for competition planes with double belts, the second belt usually (should) attach at a different location so one bolt or fitting isn't holding both belts.
danielhv
Well Known Member
anybody put a second lap belt in their RV's? Im not trying to be a competition aerobatic pilot in an RV or anything... and we invest so much more time and money in redundancy... why not a little more money into what keeps us in the seat? Just a thought... I may be way out of line since Im not even flying one yet... but it never hurts to be a hangar pilot.
A double lap belt will make you feel better, in particular if there is no cockpit at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy971Lfcd5M
Seriously, good mounting and regular inspection eliminates worry about the belts themselves...but you can accidently open a buckle and the result is the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy971Lfcd5M
Seriously, good mounting and regular inspection eliminates worry about the belts themselves...but you can accidently open a buckle and the result is the same.
AlexPeterson
Well Known Member
I take off the shoulder straps on my Hooker 5 point frequently in flight to reach something or another. I just loosen them all the way and slide them down off my shoulders. Don't have to unbuckle anything.
As a matter of interest, my boss who has an RV6 is into aeros, infact as of last month he is the national (Australian) champion in sport class in his RV (up against Pitts and the like), anyway he has standard Vans seatbelts in his aircraft but does have a second lap belt, in both seats. I have always felt quite safe doing aeros with him.
I have a Double-Hooker Ratchet system in my -3
The buckles and levers are reversed...one opens left, one opens right
Installed a second set of attach points, off the floor and about 6 inches fwd of the stock belt attach since the stock position holds you more back than down.
The ratchet belt attachs to the floor(with some angles) and rides on the hips.
You can "nail" yourself to the seat with this system...highly recommended
Mike
The buckles and levers are reversed...one opens left, one opens right
Installed a second set of attach points, off the floor and about 6 inches fwd of the stock belt attach since the stock position holds you more back than down.
The ratchet belt attachs to the floor(with some angles) and rides on the hips.
You can "nail" yourself to the seat with this system...highly recommended
Mike
What about a parachute?
Not intending to hijack the thread but....what about the use of a parachute.
We have lost members of our community over the years for various reasons and a 'chute would have saved them.
I'm thinking very seriously about getting one for aerobatic use (always solo),
I know the RVs are very strong planes but other parts sometimes break besides a wing.
Not sure if I'm being overly cautious or just heard a good sales pitch.
Who out there in RV land use parachutes?
Glenn Wilkinson
Not intending to hijack the thread but....what about the use of a parachute.
We have lost members of our community over the years for various reasons and a 'chute would have saved them.
I'm thinking very seriously about getting one for aerobatic use (always solo),
I know the RVs are very strong planes but other parts sometimes break besides a wing.
Not sure if I'm being overly cautious or just heard a good sales pitch.
Who out there in RV land use parachutes?
Glenn Wilkinson
RV7 canopy release
I did not install the release handle for the canopy on my RV7A, The latch/bolts are there, so I can remove for maintenance, but I did not install the emergency release handle to the panel. Instead, I safety wired the release mechanism.
I'm not sure if I've ever seen a 7 or 7A with the release handle installed except, maybe, the factory plane. Is that commonly done or is it more often skipped?
I did not install the release handle for the canopy on my RV7A, The latch/bolts are there, so I can remove for maintenance, but I did not install the emergency release handle to the panel. Instead, I safety wired the release mechanism.
I'm not sure if I've ever seen a 7 or 7A with the release handle installed except, maybe, the factory plane. Is that commonly done or is it more often skipped?
As a matter of interest, my boss who has an RV6 is into aeros, infact as of last month he is the national (Australian) champion in sport class in his RV (up against Pitts and the like), anyway he has standard Vans seatbelts in his aircraft but does have a second lap belt, in both seats. I have always felt quite safe doing aeros with him.
Did he use the same floor attach points? Or did he add new points?
