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iPad plus add on GPS module vs newer iPad
- Thread starter lucky
- Start date
David Paule
Well Known Member
Still haven't had a chance to take mine up yet, but I did check battery life at home: a bit more than nine hours, not continuous, and with wi-fi on about half the time. 3G was off as I still don't have a data contract, just haven't bothered yet.
Seems to take more than three hours to fully charge, but unfortunately I didn't measure that accurately.
Seems to take more than three hours to fully charge, but unfortunately I didn't measure that accurately.
You do not have to "Purchase" any data for the ATT signal to give the GPS its "assist". Once the GPS has its location then you need to turn off Cellular and turn off WiFi. Leaving them on can cause issues... for now. Perhaps this will be fixed in a app update. Perhaps the apps will be modified to include a Lat/Long initial position but for now that's how it works. If you exit the app out of range it's very possible you will not get the GPS going again.
Other Ipad EFB Links
For a lot of discussion on the Ipad being used as an EFB see:
http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=45771
TK at PUB
For a lot of discussion on the Ipad being used as an EFB see:
http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=45771
TK at PUB
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Welcome to VAF, Torry...
...and thanks for the link. Any time you're down in Georgia, look me up and we'll go RV-ating in my -10
...at (2J3),
Best,
...and thanks for the link. Any time you're down in Georgia, look me up and we'll go RV-ating in my -10
...at (2J3),Best,
David Paule
Well Known Member
I finally got to fly my iPad with the SkyCharts app today. Details:
Cessna 180
32 gb, 3G version of the iPad
Wi-fi on
Cellular data on (but no data account)
Roaming off
Location services on
Airplane more off.
Altitude, ground to about 8,100 AGL, and some detouring over the mountains.
The flight was mostly north and then the return was south, Longmont, CO to Laramie, WY. The iPad was shaded on the way up and sunlit on the way back.
The app worked flawlessly, showing my position on the sectionals and a line between the two airports. There's no return leg capability so at Laramie I had to input the return to get a new line and new course and distance and ete remaining.
The iPad is polarized: in portrait mode the screen was black through my polarized sunglasses, but quite readable without them, on both legs, even in the sun. In landscape mode I could read it with the sunglasses in the sun, but didn't think to try it in the shade.
A few minutes from entering the pattern back at Longmont, after maybe 25 minutes in direct sun on the passenger seat, the iPad died. Pressing the "on" button brought up a message that it had overheated and to try again after it cooled down. I'm sure that the position in the sun was as about bad is you can arrange in an RV.
I landed, fueled the plane, went to the bathroom, taxied back to the hangar, put the plane away and then checked it. The iPad, by then, was fine and has since worked fine.
It was great flying with the color sectional view, and that ability to resize the image and move it around. My old B&W Garmin was active for this flight but didn't show nearly the same amount of detail, of course.
Bottom line, keep the thing cool or out of direct sun an it's a good nav device.
Cessna 180
32 gb, 3G version of the iPad
Wi-fi on
Cellular data on (but no data account)
Roaming off
Location services on
Airplane more off.
Altitude, ground to about 8,100 AGL, and some detouring over the mountains.
The flight was mostly north and then the return was south, Longmont, CO to Laramie, WY. The iPad was shaded on the way up and sunlit on the way back.
The app worked flawlessly, showing my position on the sectionals and a line between the two airports. There's no return leg capability so at Laramie I had to input the return to get a new line and new course and distance and ete remaining.
The iPad is polarized: in portrait mode the screen was black through my polarized sunglasses, but quite readable without them, on both legs, even in the sun. In landscape mode I could read it with the sunglasses in the sun, but didn't think to try it in the shade.
A few minutes from entering the pattern back at Longmont, after maybe 25 minutes in direct sun on the passenger seat, the iPad died. Pressing the "on" button brought up a message that it had overheated and to try again after it cooled down. I'm sure that the position in the sun was as about bad is you can arrange in an RV.
I landed, fueled the plane, went to the bathroom, taxied back to the hangar, put the plane away and then checked it. The iPad, by then, was fine and has since worked fine.
It was great flying with the color sectional view, and that ability to resize the image and move it around. My old B&W Garmin was active for this flight but didn't show nearly the same amount of detail, of course.
Bottom line, keep the thing cool or out of direct sun an it's a good nav device.
RickWoodall
Well Known Member
Why?
Mine is on order and not scheduled until june wk 1 but...
Just a question, why would you have roaming off and airplane mode off when flying? I would figure both of these would be useful and help keep the searching for towers stuff working hard and doing a more accurate job?
I can understand not having the 3g account set up, I am planning on NOT activating it too, but curious as to why the other stuff would not be turned on?
One day I hope to run out of questions to ask. haha.
Mine is on order and not scheduled until june wk 1 but...
Just a question, why would you have roaming off and airplane mode off when flying? I would figure both of these would be useful and help keep the searching for towers stuff working hard and doing a more accurate job?
I can understand not having the 3g account set up, I am planning on NOT activating it too, but curious as to why the other stuff would not be turned on?
One day I hope to run out of questions to ask. haha.
I paid for and have tried all three,
ForeFlight
Aero Charts
SkyChartsPro
ForeFlight is by far the most finished product, however the race has just begun and the hands down winner will not be known this early in the race. For now I will be using ForeFlight but keeping an eye on the other two.
A apparent limitation of all of them is the inability to enter a present position to initialize the GPS. Not a problem if you are in cell range(no data plan needed as mentioned), or WiFi. Having the cell or Wifi on after the GPS gets a position can actually interfere with GPS performance (airborne) so it works better to have them off in flight.
This problem will become apparent if you try to start the app at a location where no cell or WiFi signal is available to initialize the GPS in flight or on the ground. It seems restarting the app without a big location change it can handle but anything more than some undetermined distance and it will not be able to get started.
ForeFlight
Aero Charts
SkyChartsPro
ForeFlight is by far the most finished product, however the race has just begun and the hands down winner will not be known this early in the race. For now I will be using ForeFlight but keeping an eye on the other two.
A apparent limitation of all of them is the inability to enter a present position to initialize the GPS. Not a problem if you are in cell range(no data plan needed as mentioned), or WiFi. Having the cell or Wifi on after the GPS gets a position can actually interfere with GPS performance (airborne) so it works better to have them off in flight.
This problem will become apparent if you try to start the app at a location where no cell or WiFi signal is available to initialize the GPS in flight or on the ground. It seems restarting the app without a big location change it can handle but anything more than some undetermined distance and it will not be able to get started.
Why Airplane Mode Off?
The airplane mode on the Ipad is designed to disable all radio frequency input and output in order to comply with FAA requirements for use in an aircraft, especially commercial airliner. When you activate the airplane mode 3G, wifi and the gps are disabled.
So, for those of us flying part 91, just do not turn on airplane mode. Also when you turn off the 3G you are keeping the Ipad from trying to access every single cell site in your line of sight. It really makes no difference because typically cell service is unusable above about 1000 feet AGL. Cell signels are very directional in the horizontal plane and signal strength drops off if you are significantly above the horizontal plane of the antenna.
I have now flown with my Ipad a considerable amount. I have found that I do not need 3G to initialize the GPS in any way. I picks up a satellite constellation just fine with out cell access, just a little slower. One thing I have noticed is that, without 3G assist, the location indicator will start out showing a displaced location for a few moments, as much as several hundered feet, then as additional satellites are acquired will move across the map to your exact location plus or minus 15 to 30 feet. This is especially observable using Topo Maps and the USGS Quad for PUB that shows a block symbol at the location of my hangar. The little locater dot even shows the proper end of my hangar where I am at.
Even with the 3G turned off my Ipad will easily locate my position from within my closed hangar. The antenna design is VERY good, and it seems to have an exceptional signal to noise ratio.
As to software, it appears that for now ForeFlight will probably turn out to be the better package. I have already gotten a couple of updates that solved some of the deficiencies. They have now added a Brief and File screen that interfaces with Duats and allows you to file a flight plan. This, by the way saves all of your entered flights. This screen does not yet interface with the maps page but this will come when they get the Route page ported over from the IPhone version. They seem committed to having it all up and running in a short time, and so far, their claims to "have it in a day or so" have come true. One element they need is to have a synthetic vision screen that shows terrain.
SkyCharts Pro has a nice touch interface off of the charts, being able to pull up weather and airport info by just touching the airport symbol on the chart. This is great, and I hope that ForeFlight can incoorperate it in their product, which has better airport and weather info available.
Hopefully the Flight Guide product, which received great reviews from several of my friends that saw it a Sun 'N Fun will allow you to have a trial subscription, rather than a full year committment, when it becomes available later this month. Being able to get ForeFlight for 3 months was an advantage, and SkyCharts Pro was so cheap, it didn't matter. I just do not want to be sitting on a yearly subscription while the developer tries to put their package together.
WingX also has an adaptation of their IPhone product being ported over to the Ipad. As yet you are saddled with their inhouse charts and no sectional or IFR low or High enroute are available. They seem to be troubled by trying to address too many platforms to run their program. Two years ago I bought their Blackberry version. It was not fully developed, and the developer kept promissing me that it would be finished at any moment, at the next update, etc, as infinitem, all to no avial, and I feel ripped off. So I do not have much faith in there getting sectionals, etc up and running for the Ipad in any timely fashion.
There is also another developer that presently has a package for the Windows environment who will in all likelyhood develop a pachage for the Ipad. I first used their package in 1996 on a Toshiba laptop, and having geo referenced sectionals and approach plates was wonderful. They sold the original package to another developer, and then came out with an even better EFB. If they can get something similar up and running on the Ipad at a reasonable subscription cost it could easily capture my business.
Torry at PUB
The airplane mode on the Ipad is designed to disable all radio frequency input and output in order to comply with FAA requirements for use in an aircraft, especially commercial airliner. When you activate the airplane mode 3G, wifi and the gps are disabled.
So, for those of us flying part 91, just do not turn on airplane mode. Also when you turn off the 3G you are keeping the Ipad from trying to access every single cell site in your line of sight. It really makes no difference because typically cell service is unusable above about 1000 feet AGL. Cell signels are very directional in the horizontal plane and signal strength drops off if you are significantly above the horizontal plane of the antenna.
I have now flown with my Ipad a considerable amount. I have found that I do not need 3G to initialize the GPS in any way. I picks up a satellite constellation just fine with out cell access, just a little slower. One thing I have noticed is that, without 3G assist, the location indicator will start out showing a displaced location for a few moments, as much as several hundered feet, then as additional satellites are acquired will move across the map to your exact location plus or minus 15 to 30 feet. This is especially observable using Topo Maps and the USGS Quad for PUB that shows a block symbol at the location of my hangar. The little locater dot even shows the proper end of my hangar where I am at.
Even with the 3G turned off my Ipad will easily locate my position from within my closed hangar. The antenna design is VERY good, and it seems to have an exceptional signal to noise ratio.
As to software, it appears that for now ForeFlight will probably turn out to be the better package. I have already gotten a couple of updates that solved some of the deficiencies. They have now added a Brief and File screen that interfaces with Duats and allows you to file a flight plan. This, by the way saves all of your entered flights. This screen does not yet interface with the maps page but this will come when they get the Route page ported over from the IPhone version. They seem committed to having it all up and running in a short time, and so far, their claims to "have it in a day or so" have come true. One element they need is to have a synthetic vision screen that shows terrain.
SkyCharts Pro has a nice touch interface off of the charts, being able to pull up weather and airport info by just touching the airport symbol on the chart. This is great, and I hope that ForeFlight can incoorperate it in their product, which has better airport and weather info available.
Hopefully the Flight Guide product, which received great reviews from several of my friends that saw it a Sun 'N Fun will allow you to have a trial subscription, rather than a full year committment, when it becomes available later this month. Being able to get ForeFlight for 3 months was an advantage, and SkyCharts Pro was so cheap, it didn't matter. I just do not want to be sitting on a yearly subscription while the developer tries to put their package together.
WingX also has an adaptation of their IPhone product being ported over to the Ipad. As yet you are saddled with their inhouse charts and no sectional or IFR low or High enroute are available. They seem to be troubled by trying to address too many platforms to run their program. Two years ago I bought their Blackberry version. It was not fully developed, and the developer kept promissing me that it would be finished at any moment, at the next update, etc, as infinitem, all to no avial, and I feel ripped off. So I do not have much faith in there getting sectionals, etc up and running for the Ipad in any timely fashion.
There is also another developer that presently has a package for the Windows environment who will in all likelyhood develop a pachage for the Ipad. I first used their package in 1996 on a Toshiba laptop, and having geo referenced sectionals and approach plates was wonderful. They sold the original package to another developer, and then came out with an even better EFB. If they can get something similar up and running on the Ipad at a reasonable subscription cost it could easily capture my business.
Torry at PUB
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David Paule
Well Known Member
Mine is on order and not scheduled until june wk 1 but...
Just a question, why would you have roaming off and airplane mode off when flying? I would figure both of these would be useful and help keep the searching for towers stuff working hard and doing a more accurate job?
I can understand not having the 3g account set up, I am planning on NOT activating it too, but curious as to why the other stuff would not be turned on?
One day I hope to run out of questions to ask. haha.
1. Roaming is off because I don't have a 3G account.
2. Airplane more is off because that (I think) disables the GPS. The mode option "off" is for avoiding interference on airliners.
I didn't really set particular options. What I did, was verify that SkyCharts was working, the GPS was functioning, and then went flying. After I got back I checked to see what the options were set to for my brief review.
You'll like the unit. My only real gripe is that it badly needs some sort of soft, grippy case. As it came, the exterior of the iPad has sharp edges and is woefully slippery. I regard the iPad's exterior as a remarkable example of bad ergonomics - that's my opinion. The case I added, an after-market thing, fixed all that.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
I'm a little confused...
..still. We just bought the iPad with only wifi, no 3G because we don't need that capability.
Will my wifi only still acquire GPS signals and display our position? Moving map?
Thanks,
..still. We just bought the iPad with only wifi, no 3G because we don't need that capability.
Will my wifi only still acquire GPS signals and display our position? Moving map?
Thanks,
Pierre,
The model you got does not have GPS (assisted or otherwise)
. Therefore, if you want to have your charts georeferenced (moving map), you would have to jailbreak your iPad, add a Bluetooth stack, and use a BT GPS to pair with your iPad. This may actually work better than the 3G's assisted GPS, we'll have to wait and see. Of course, there is some risk in jailbreaking your iPad, too.I think a lot of folks who didn't get the 3G model will jailbreak their iPad in order to have the full EFB functionality and probably be very happy with it.
I have experimented some with my Garmin GPS18 USB tied to my Toshiba laptop and compared it with my Ipad 3G model. As it appears so far, the Ipad is a MUCH more sensitive GPS receiver. As mentioned above, without GPS assist, the Ipad will easily lock onto satellites and provide position from within my closed hangar. The Garmin, on the other hand, needs at least to have the hangar door open. I have been told that the Ipad uses multi-antenna technology, for what is worth. I can not confirm this, but it is very sensitive and very accurate.
TK at PUB
TK at PUB
External GPS for use with Ipad wifi only model
Here is a link for a GPS that will supposedly work with the wifi only version of the Ipad.
http://www.g-fi.com/index.php?argv=specs
I have not tried it myself, but it has been used by a friend with a smart phone that was GPS assist only and he needed GPS when cell service was unavailable.
TK at PUB
Here is a link for a GPS that will supposedly work with the wifi only version of the Ipad.
http://www.g-fi.com/index.php?argv=specs
I have not tried it myself, but it has been used by a friend with a smart phone that was GPS assist only and he needed GPS when cell service was unavailable.
TK at PUB
glider
Well Known Member
FYI: SkyCharts v1.8 and later supports the G-Fi
(unfortunately support for the device needs to be individually added for every app that wants to use the device)
I haven't announced support for the G-Fi since I've had some good and bad reports - please join the beta if you have issues.
(and FYI - I've had some reports that jail-break/bluetooth gps support doesn't work on the iPad yet - please correct
me if I'm wrong)
(unfortunately support for the device needs to be individually added for every app that wants to use the device)
I haven't announced support for the G-Fi since I've had some good and bad reports - please join the beta if you have issues.
(and FYI - I've had some reports that jail-break/bluetooth gps support doesn't work on the iPad yet - please correct
me if I'm wrong)
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pierre smith
Well Known Member
Glad to see you on here, Hekki....
...since I had a devil of a time caching my charts! I finally enabled 'cache IFR charts' and that seemed to include the approach plates and sectionals. I drove away from my office wifi until I showed no reception, and entered a go-to waypoint, several, actually, and it ran fine with no wifi.
Is this correct? I downloaded from the Skycharts website,
Best,
...since I had a devil of a time caching my charts! I finally enabled 'cache IFR charts' and that seemed to include the approach plates and sectionals. I drove away from my office wifi until I showed no reception, and entered a go-to waypoint, several, actually, and it ran fine with no wifi.
Is this correct? I downloaded from the Skycharts website,
Best,
glider
Well Known Member
So - the app is trying to be 'smart' - maybe that doesn't always work ?
This is the caching algorithm:
For VFR: The A/FD and airport diagrams for all airports in the area the chart covers.
For IFR: A/FD and plates for all airports in the area the chart covers.
For VFR charts you can also enable the 'cache IFR plates' in the settings, and it will download all plates (but be careful, since the VFR charts have different coverage than the IFR charts you may or may not get the plates for the airports you want - if you fly IFR then please download the IFR charts and it will just work).
So if you intend to use ALL plates - either enable the 'cache IFR plates' in the settings, or just cache the IFR charts for your area.
See the FAQ for other frequently asked questions:
http://www.skycharts.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=188
This is the caching algorithm:
For VFR: The A/FD and airport diagrams for all airports in the area the chart covers.
For IFR: A/FD and plates for all airports in the area the chart covers.
For VFR charts you can also enable the 'cache IFR plates' in the settings, and it will download all plates (but be careful, since the VFR charts have different coverage than the IFR charts you may or may not get the plates for the airports you want - if you fly IFR then please download the IFR charts and it will just work).
So if you intend to use ALL plates - either enable the 'cache IFR plates' in the settings, or just cache the IFR charts for your area.
See the FAQ for other frequently asked questions:
http://www.skycharts.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=188
Hekki:
Welcome to the topic covering the Ipad and your, as well as others, software.
I really like your maps and the feature that allows calling up airport info by tapping the screen. This is a great feature. The use of the Ipad for an EFB is just getting started, and it will be exciting to see where you and others will eventually proceede with features.
The ability to have a very capable device, with great software features and a reasonable cost is very heartening. I do not look for it to replace my present Garmin stack, but am excited to have the great additional situation awareness that your product provides. I have been using Air Charts Systems WAC book for many years. The cost to yearly update this for the past years easily exceeds what I spent for my Ipad and your excellant application.
I hope that you can eventually provide geo referenced approach plates, to further improve the application's utility.
TK at PUB
Welcome to the topic covering the Ipad and your, as well as others, software.
I really like your maps and the feature that allows calling up airport info by tapping the screen. This is a great feature. The use of the Ipad for an EFB is just getting started, and it will be exciting to see where you and others will eventually proceede with features.
The ability to have a very capable device, with great software features and a reasonable cost is very heartening. I do not look for it to replace my present Garmin stack, but am excited to have the great additional situation awareness that your product provides. I have been using Air Charts Systems WAC book for many years. The cost to yearly update this for the past years easily exceeds what I spent for my Ipad and your excellant application.
I hope that you can eventually provide geo referenced approach plates, to further improve the application's utility.
TK at PUB
glider
Well Known Member
Thanks!
Regarding geo-referenced approach plates - sadly FAA/NACO does not provide any useful information, and I can't add that information by myself (nor do I want to!), but as soon as FAA does release something I'll look into it.
Regarding geo-referenced approach plates - sadly FAA/NACO does not provide any useful information, and I can't add that information by myself (nor do I want to!), but as soon as FAA does release something I'll look into it.
I have used several software packages that do have geo referenced approach charts. All were, are, running on a Toshiba Laptop, or more recently, a Toshiba Notepad with windows XP.
Flight Prep, for one, has the standard FAA approach plates geo referenced. Also Mentor Flight Star from the late 1990s, now a Jeppesen product, had them geo referenced.
Possibly you can find out where they got their geo information.
TK at PUB
Flight Prep, for one, has the standard FAA approach plates geo referenced. Also Mentor Flight Star from the late 1990s, now a Jeppesen product, had them geo referenced.
Possibly you can find out where they got their geo information.
TK at PUB
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glider
Well Known Member
There is most likely a secret to this, but I have not figured it out.
On the other hand, the low enroute IFR charts are not geo-referenced either, but with some massaging you can make them so..
If someone has any hints on how to geo-reference the plates please let me know.
On the other hand, the low enroute IFR charts are not geo-referenced either, but with some massaging you can make them so..
If someone has any hints on how to geo-reference the plates please let me know.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Today's the first test...
....of my paperless cockpit, when we fly down to Spruce Creek (260 miles), IFR.
We'll report.
BTW Hekki, is there a 12 volt recharge cable available for the iPad yet?
Best,
....of my paperless cockpit, when we fly down to Spruce Creek (260 miles), IFR.
We'll report.
BTW Hekki, is there a 12 volt recharge cable available for the iPad yet?
Best,
glider
Well Known Member
Yes, sadly my old iPhone car charger does NOT work with the iPad.
The iPad want more current than older iPhone/iPod chargers provide.
Fortunately the battery life on the iPad is good, and I believe it DOES charge, as long as you blank the iPad.
As soon as your power up the iPad it ceases charging to protect the USB.
If anyone finds a 12V car charger that works with the iPad please let us know.
The iPad want more current than older iPhone/iPod chargers provide.
Fortunately the battery life on the iPad is good, and I believe it DOES charge, as long as you blank the iPad.
As soon as your power up the iPad it ceases charging to protect the USB.
If anyone finds a 12V car charger that works with the iPad please let us know.
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n5lp
fugio ergo sum
http://store.apple.com/us/product/H0956ZM/A?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY
From the Apple store. I got the combination 110V/12V charger from the same company (Incase). It works well.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Thanks, Larry....
....ordered,
Best,
....ordered,
Best,
glider
Well Known Member
Thanks!
FYI:
I've gotten reports that the latest BTstack works with SkyCharts.
RoqyBT supposedly works well, but ONLY so far on iPod touch, it does not support the iPad.
However, since both of these require you to jail break this is something you need to think twice about - you will void your warranty.
FYI:
I've gotten reports that the latest BTstack works with SkyCharts.
RoqyBT supposedly works well, but ONLY so far on iPod touch, it does not support the iPad.
However, since both of these require you to jail break this is something you need to think twice about - you will void your warranty.
For a 12 volt charger, the Apple Store I go to had a very nice adapter that is designed for the Ipad. It is an aftermarket device that is very small and works great. It is a small, black cigarette lighter adapter that outputs to a female USB port, and a proper cord comes with it. The Apple Store has two kinds, both the same make, one is a single USB output the other a dual output.
The single output style I bought was their item : Incase-Car Charger-2 Amp
Part Number: H0956ZM/A and cost $24.95.
TK at PUB
The single output style I bought was their item : Incase-Car Charger-2 Amp
Part Number: H0956ZM/A and cost $24.95.
TK at PUB
pierre smith
Well Known Member
We just came back from Spruce Creek....
...and their monthly EAA meeting. Keith Philips, their president, asked me to introduce the iPad to the crowd after I'd shown him how it works....he's getting one and was really excited.
Spruce has a huge membership and very gracious and when I held up the iPad and told them that this little bugger will replace all your sectionals, low altitude charts and approach plates....they couldn't believe it! There were a lot of very excited and interested folk and I believe the best is yet to come.
Another side benefit I discovered was that there are no permanent ink marks on the charts of the iPad and no tears along the folds making some airports unidentifiable.....great trip down and back with my new toy
Best,
...and their monthly EAA meeting. Keith Philips, their president, asked me to introduce the iPad to the crowd after I'd shown him how it works....he's getting one and was really excited.
Spruce has a huge membership and very gracious and when I held up the iPad and told them that this little bugger will replace all your sectionals, low altitude charts and approach plates....they couldn't believe it! There were a lot of very excited and interested folk and I believe the best is yet to come.
Another side benefit I discovered was that there are no permanent ink marks on the charts of the iPad and no tears along the folds making some airports unidentifiable.....great trip down and back with my new toy
Best,
RickWoodall
Well Known Member
Ipad
Finally got my ipad. Just playing around and looking at the MILLION apps and trying to learn what is good and what is silly.
Can a few of you post a few that you find useful for RV and aviation buffs?
What free and what not free apps do you find usefull. As an example there are a bunch of GPS and tracking type apps. Several sound good..just looking for real life pireps. Thanks
Finally got my ipad. Just playing around and looking at the MILLION apps and trying to learn what is good and what is silly.
Can a few of you post a few that you find useful for RV and aviation buffs?
What free and what not free apps do you find usefull. As an example there are a bunch of GPS and tracking type apps. Several sound good..just looking for real life pireps. Thanks
...and their monthly EAA meeting. Keith Philips, their president, asked me to introduce the iPad to the crowd after I'd shown him how it works....he's getting one and was really excited.
Spruce has a huge membership and very gracious and when I held up the iPad and told them that this little bugger will replace all your sectionals, low altitude charts and approach plates....they couldn't believe it! There were a lot of very excited and interested folk and I believe the best is yet to come.
Another side benefit I discovered was that there are no permanent ink marks on the charts of the iPad and no tears along the folds making some airports unidentifiable.....great trip down and back with my new toy
Best,[/QUOTE/]
Pierre:
As I understand, you can use the iPad for sectionals, low altitude enroute charts as well as approach plates but you have to have the actual paper charts in the plane to be legal. I plan to use my iPad for the above but still have the paper charts and approach plates in the baggage compartment to please the feds in the event of a ramp check. Am I right on this?
Bill Near
pierre smith
Well Known Member
The general consensus is ....
....that you do not need to have any paper charts or approach plates in the airplane, on a cross-country flight. The regs say that you must avail yourself of all necessary information about your departure airport, the route to be flown and the arrival airport, but no mention of paper.
In this respect, the iPad shines, because you can simply double tap any airport on your route of flight and it then shows the airport facility directory and all approaches and departures....something you can't do with paper charts, unless you have the AOPA book with you, and how about approach plates? They're all in there for ready use in the event of an emergency...really nice.
That being the case, all the necessary information is in the iPad. If you're concerned about the iPad going Tango-Uniform, take the approach plates for your destination and alternate, if necessary, with you.
Best,
....that you do not need to have any paper charts or approach plates in the airplane, on a cross-country flight. The regs say that you must avail yourself of all necessary information about your departure airport, the route to be flown and the arrival airport, but no mention of paper.
In this respect, the iPad shines, because you can simply double tap any airport on your route of flight and it then shows the airport facility directory and all approaches and departures....something you can't do with paper charts, unless you have the AOPA book with you, and how about approach plates? They're all in there for ready use in the event of an emergency...really nice.
That being the case, all the necessary information is in the iPad. If you're concerned about the iPad going Tango-Uniform, take the approach plates for your destination and alternate, if necessary, with you.
Best,
In reply to the software / applications available?
I have been using both ForeFlight and SkyCharts Pro.
SkyCharts Pro allows the calling up of AFD information by tapping the airport identifier on the chart your are viewing on the screen. It also has small round rings that represent TAF and METAR availability for a given reporting point superimposed on the chart. Tapping them brings up the most current information for that location. The weather information is not cached during the use of the program while in wifi or 3G reception, and therefore is not usable in the air.
ForeFlight functions a little different. All of the information it provides, which is a lot, is from separate pages: each accessed separeately from a menu along the bottom of the Ipad screen. There are pages for Airports, Maps, Imagery, File and Brief, etc.
Each one of these will provide info based upon its topic. The Maps screen will provide Sectional, IFR Low and IFR High maps as well as maps that depict weather. The weather pages inclide Radar, Satellite, Flight Rules, Wind, Visability, Ceiling, Sky Coverage, Temperature, Dew Point Spread and Lightning. These map pages all interact with the GPS, but the overlaid information on the maps comes from the wifi or 3G connection and are not available in the air, and they also do not, as at the moment, cache the information to memory, although the charts are always avialable from memory.
The ForeFlight Airport Screen, on the other hand, does load from cached memory the pertenant information on that airport. This data is very extensive, and includes AFD, runway layouts, proceedures, frequencies, Notams, Services, etc. It also includes AND CACHES the most current weather, both METAR and TAF for any airport looked at while connected through wifi of 3G . Of course, as soon as you are in the air, updates to this information are not available, and only the cached information is accessable. The weather information that is cached is not ROUTE DEPENDENT, ie does not automatically download dependent upon the route entered on the MAP page: you must call up each airport you are interested in on the Airports Page to cache the weather info for that airport.
The File and Brief page allows you to separately obtain a DUATS weather briefing and file your flight plan while in wifi or 3G contact. The DUATS weather briefing is cached to memory and can be viewed at other times, including while in the air.
As alluded to above, the various separate screens, Airports, Maps, File and Brief, etc. do not as yet talk to each other. This means that for now, when you fill out the very detailed information on the File and Brief screen, it does not transfer the route to the Map screen; the route must be entered separately on the Map screen. SUPPOSEDLY this will change as the developer finishes porting the program over from the Iphone version. I am told that a ROUTES page will be added that interfaces the information from page to page. Not having seen the Iphone version, I can not comment on this.
Comparing the two programs, Foreflight provides a lot more information, but the airport AFD is not accessable by tapping the appropiate symbol on the chart. I also like the GPS marker from ForeFlight Pro better, is is a very bright blue dot, rather than the somewhat dimmer airplane symbol used by SkyCharts Pro.
Both programs are being worked on by thier developers, as it stands now, ForeFlight is the more highly developed program as far as total information available is concerned; it is also the most expensive, $79.95 a year as against SkyCharts $19.95 a year.
Both programs allow you to download and CACHE all of the available charts, sectional and IFR, as well as AFDs for the entire USA 50 States. ForeFlight using the Airports screen, also allows you to individually download and look at most ICAO airports, and includes weather information also. This can only be done while you have wifi or 3G connectivity, but the information, including weather at the time of download, does cache. These airports, though, are not a part of the permenantly cached charts, etc, and must be downloaded individually and separately.
Other aviation usable applications I am using include Weather Underground ( Wunderground ), Pilot My-Cast and PDF Reader Pro.
The Pilot My-Cast is not yet fully ported over to the large screen format of the Ipad, and also has a subscription rate of $9.95 a month. I only subscribed for one month to evaluate it, and find that ForeFlight Pro is a more useful program, also it only works with connectivity, and does not cache information for later use in the air.
Wundermap is free, and very good for general., preflight, weather information, but again, only usable with a connection.
PDF Reader Pro is used to download and view my checklists and Aircraft Flight Manual or POH, and the various avionics manuals that I have. These can be either scanned images or created using Excel or Word. My checklists I created using Excel, the POH I entered by scanning the pages and the avionics manuals were from Garmin already converted to PDF files.
There are a lot of other applications available that could be of use to pilots, EFB performance calculators for instance, as well as several other software developers are developing applications for the Ipad. For one, Flight Guide will shortly have an application similar to ForeFlight Pro available. I am also told that FlightPrep will have a version of their program available for the Ipad at some date in the future.
The surface is just being scratched. As it stands now, it appears that the Ipad for under $800, including software, provides almost everything that a $3000 Garmin 695 does. The only thing it lacks is a usable Bluetooth connection to devices other than headphones and keyboards, and I suspect that this will be available at some point in the future. This will then allow XM Weather availability in the air.
ONE ADDITIONAL ITEM in respnse to a question asked above:
Foreflight Pro does allow you on the Maps Page to search for both VORs and Intersections, as well as airports, and will place a marker on the Sectional Chart at the appropiate location, well as on the IFR chart it will center the VOR or Intersection on the screen.
TK at PUB
I have been using both ForeFlight and SkyCharts Pro.
SkyCharts Pro allows the calling up of AFD information by tapping the airport identifier on the chart your are viewing on the screen. It also has small round rings that represent TAF and METAR availability for a given reporting point superimposed on the chart. Tapping them brings up the most current information for that location. The weather information is not cached during the use of the program while in wifi or 3G reception, and therefore is not usable in the air.
ForeFlight functions a little different. All of the information it provides, which is a lot, is from separate pages: each accessed separeately from a menu along the bottom of the Ipad screen. There are pages for Airports, Maps, Imagery, File and Brief, etc.
Each one of these will provide info based upon its topic. The Maps screen will provide Sectional, IFR Low and IFR High maps as well as maps that depict weather. The weather pages inclide Radar, Satellite, Flight Rules, Wind, Visability, Ceiling, Sky Coverage, Temperature, Dew Point Spread and Lightning. These map pages all interact with the GPS, but the overlaid information on the maps comes from the wifi or 3G connection and are not available in the air, and they also do not, as at the moment, cache the information to memory, although the charts are always avialable from memory.
The ForeFlight Airport Screen, on the other hand, does load from cached memory the pertenant information on that airport. This data is very extensive, and includes AFD, runway layouts, proceedures, frequencies, Notams, Services, etc. It also includes AND CACHES the most current weather, both METAR and TAF for any airport looked at while connected through wifi of 3G . Of course, as soon as you are in the air, updates to this information are not available, and only the cached information is accessable. The weather information that is cached is not ROUTE DEPENDENT, ie does not automatically download dependent upon the route entered on the MAP page: you must call up each airport you are interested in on the Airports Page to cache the weather info for that airport.
The File and Brief page allows you to separately obtain a DUATS weather briefing and file your flight plan while in wifi or 3G contact. The DUATS weather briefing is cached to memory and can be viewed at other times, including while in the air.
As alluded to above, the various separate screens, Airports, Maps, File and Brief, etc. do not as yet talk to each other. This means that for now, when you fill out the very detailed information on the File and Brief screen, it does not transfer the route to the Map screen; the route must be entered separately on the Map screen. SUPPOSEDLY this will change as the developer finishes porting the program over from the Iphone version. I am told that a ROUTES page will be added that interfaces the information from page to page. Not having seen the Iphone version, I can not comment on this.
Comparing the two programs, Foreflight provides a lot more information, but the airport AFD is not accessable by tapping the appropiate symbol on the chart. I also like the GPS marker from ForeFlight Pro better, is is a very bright blue dot, rather than the somewhat dimmer airplane symbol used by SkyCharts Pro.
Both programs are being worked on by thier developers, as it stands now, ForeFlight is the more highly developed program as far as total information available is concerned; it is also the most expensive, $79.95 a year as against SkyCharts $19.95 a year.
Both programs allow you to download and CACHE all of the available charts, sectional and IFR, as well as AFDs for the entire USA 50 States. ForeFlight using the Airports screen, also allows you to individually download and look at most ICAO airports, and includes weather information also. This can only be done while you have wifi or 3G connectivity, but the information, including weather at the time of download, does cache. These airports, though, are not a part of the permenantly cached charts, etc, and must be downloaded individually and separately.
Other aviation usable applications I am using include Weather Underground ( Wunderground ), Pilot My-Cast and PDF Reader Pro.
The Pilot My-Cast is not yet fully ported over to the large screen format of the Ipad, and also has a subscription rate of $9.95 a month. I only subscribed for one month to evaluate it, and find that ForeFlight Pro is a more useful program, also it only works with connectivity, and does not cache information for later use in the air.
Wundermap is free, and very good for general., preflight, weather information, but again, only usable with a connection.
PDF Reader Pro is used to download and view my checklists and Aircraft Flight Manual or POH, and the various avionics manuals that I have. These can be either scanned images or created using Excel or Word. My checklists I created using Excel, the POH I entered by scanning the pages and the avionics manuals were from Garmin already converted to PDF files.
There are a lot of other applications available that could be of use to pilots, EFB performance calculators for instance, as well as several other software developers are developing applications for the Ipad. For one, Flight Guide will shortly have an application similar to ForeFlight Pro available. I am also told that FlightPrep will have a version of their program available for the Ipad at some date in the future.
The surface is just being scratched. As it stands now, it appears that the Ipad for under $800, including software, provides almost everything that a $3000 Garmin 695 does. The only thing it lacks is a usable Bluetooth connection to devices other than headphones and keyboards, and I suspect that this will be available at some point in the future. This will then allow XM Weather availability in the air.
ONE ADDITIONAL ITEM in respnse to a question asked above:
Foreflight Pro does allow you on the Maps Page to search for both VORs and Intersections, as well as airports, and will place a marker on the Sectional Chart at the appropiate location, well as on the IFR chart it will center the VOR or Intersection on the screen.
TK at PUB
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dhall_polo
Well Known Member
regs say paper not needed
caveat emptor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag#Regulations
The iPad would be considered a Class 1 EFB:
* EFB Class 1 - Standard commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) equipment such as laptops or handheld electronic devices.
Regulations
According to the FAA, Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3 EFB may act as a substitute for the paper manuals that pilots are otherwise required to carry with them. ... Part 91 Operators can use their Pilot In Command (PIC) authority to approve the use of Class 1 and Class 2 EFBs (which are PEDs)...
Reference
* FAA AC 91-78 (July 2007) - Use of Class 1 and 2 EFBs
caveat emptor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag#Regulations
The iPad would be considered a Class 1 EFB:
* EFB Class 1 - Standard commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) equipment such as laptops or handheld electronic devices.
Regulations
According to the FAA, Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3 EFB may act as a substitute for the paper manuals that pilots are otherwise required to carry with them. ... Part 91 Operators can use their Pilot In Command (PIC) authority to approve the use of Class 1 and Class 2 EFBs (which are PEDs)...
Reference
* FAA AC 91-78 (July 2007) - Use of Class 1 and 2 EFBs
Thanks.....
Don and Pierre. That will signifiacntly unclutter my cockpit. I still like having sectionals and enroute charts because I'm a big picture kind of guy but at least I don't need to carry around reams of approach plates. I'm doing my part to save a few trees.
Bill Near
Don and Pierre. That will signifiacntly unclutter my cockpit. I still like having sectionals and enroute charts because I'm a big picture kind of guy but at least I don't need to carry around reams of approach plates. I'm doing my part to save a few trees.
Bill Near
Thanks TK for a great update and evaluation. The ablility to search for VOR/intersection would be a great plus for me during flight. I am still fuzzy as how the Ipad will track its location (GPS) in the air or otherwise when it is not connected to wi fi or 3G.
And if I am not mistaking Seattle avionics will be developing their system to work on Ipad.
And if I am not mistaking Seattle avionics will be developing their system to work on Ipad.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Thanks, Don....
...for digging it up.
Mehrdad, the iPad G3 has an internal GPS and after the 'assisted' location via wifi is found, it then will track your course. The G3 version of the iPad is $100 extra but since I already have a 496 and 430W, a third moving map was simply over-redundant.
Best,
...for digging it up.
Mehrdad, the iPad G3 has an internal GPS and after the 'assisted' location via wifi is found, it then will track your course. The G3 version of the iPad is $100 extra but since I already have a 496 and 430W, a third moving map was simply over-redundant.
Best,
dhall_polo
Well Known Member
Yep, trust in a new medium should not be instant. Personally, I'll keep my local paper subscriptions going because I don't even want the ipad in the cockpit for the short trips. For xcntry, however, I'll be doing ipad with no paper backup. That's hardly a walk on the wild side given all the wonderful high-dollar gadgets in my panel. I'm not going to crash and burn if the ipad goes tango-uniform.
just cuz it don't
Why are you mystified? Does your handheld Garmin x96 need wifi or 3G? Of course not. GPS signals have nothing to do with 3G or wifi. Your iPad has a built in GPS receiver/antenna similar to what your Garmin has and the iPad's software does not artificially require you to be receiving over wifi or AT&T's network so you are good to go. The iPads assisted GPS receiver can take advantage of using the wifi or 3G signal but it's been reported by "PIREPS" that it's not required for outdoor use.
Why are you mystified? Does your handheld Garmin x96 need wifi or 3G? Of course not. GPS signals have nothing to do with 3G or wifi. Your iPad has a built in GPS receiver/antenna similar to what your Garmin has and the iPad's software does not artificially require you to be receiving over wifi or AT&T's network so you are good to go. The iPads assisted GPS receiver can take advantage of using the wifi or 3G signal but it's been reported by "PIREPS" that it's not required for outdoor use.
Why are you mystified? Does your handheld Garmin x96 need wifi or 3G? Of course not. GPS signals have nothing to do with 3G or wifi. Your iPad has a built in GPS receiver/antenna similar to what your Garmin has and the iPad's software does not artificially require you to be receiving over wifi or AT&T's network so you are good to go. The iPads assisted GPS receiver can take advantage of using the wifi or 3G signal but it's been reported by "PIREPS" that it's not required for outdoor use.
I'm sure this has been discussed in the thread, but too much to go back through and read, but do both models of the iPad (wi-fi and 3g) have a GPS receiver/antenna in them?
Lucky, have you tried the iPad 3G? If you don't start it with a signal either wifi or G3 the GPS will not initialize. (paid G3 not required to be active). As of right now none of the apps appear to have a way to give the GPS an initial position. This is a big problem airborne with no wifi or G3 if you need to reboot the app. (happens easy). The airplane is in motion during an interruption and now the GPS is lost and will not restart. I'm cautiously optimistic a solution or work around for this will be forthcoming.
no, just the 3G has the GPS
Yes I have, using Foreflight, and didn't notice any problem initializing. So, what test have you done that came out differently? Also, read post #59, I think. Here's a copy of text from it.
"I have now flown with my Ipad a considerable amount. I have found that I do not need 3G to initialize the GPS in any way. I picks up a satellite constellation just fine with out cell access, just a little slower. One thing I have noticed is that, without 3G assist, the location indicator will start out showing a displaced location for a few moments, as much as several hundered feet, then as additional satellites are acquired will move across the map to your exact location plus or minus 15 to 30 feet. This is especially observable using Topo Maps and the USGS Quad for PUB that shows a block symbol at the location of my hangar. The little locater dot even shows the proper end of my hangar where I am at.
Even with the 3G turned off my Ipad will easily locate my position from within my closed hangar. The antenna design is VERY good, and it seems to have an exceptional signal to noise ratio."
Pierre/all,
Thanks for clarifying the GPS tracking issue. I was under the impression that Ipad does not have a GPS cheap/antenna and it finds the location only based on 3G. Perhaps that was due to all the conversation for needing a blue tooth type GPS.
My interest for a GPS is perhaps for futures down the road that would be available. Perhaps goe-referrenced approach or simply track the progress on the map.
Anyway, thanks again.
Thanks for clarifying the GPS tracking issue. I was under the impression that Ipad does not have a GPS cheap/antenna and it finds the location only based on 3G. Perhaps that was due to all the conversation for needing a blue tooth type GPS.
My interest for a GPS is perhaps for futures down the road that would be available. Perhaps goe-referrenced approach or simply track the progress on the map.
Anyway, thanks again.
I will confirm the accuracy and precision. Zoomed in with a sat map it shows walking around inside a house out in the yard, out in a street with what appears to be +/- 5 feet. Try this next time you fly, turn the app off, fly a couple minutes (perhaps less if you are going fast.... very fast ), then see if it will restart. It might be a distance from restart or it could be the speed of the aircraft that prevents a reboot.
), then see if it will restart. It might be a distance from restart or it could be the speed of the aircraft that prevents a reboot.
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Really! Use the force, not the nearest person.
I've read the whole thread from the get go. But the ole brain just doesn't retain info like it used to.
Ipad GPS Connection Question:
I have about 20 hours of use of my Ipad 3G in my Bonanza. As yet, I have never seen a problem with the Ipad acquiring satellites or a fix while in the air at speeds up to 170 knots.
One thing to check if you are having a problem. In SETTINGS on the Ipad is an AIRPLANE MODE function. For the GPS to work, this must be turned off. This function is only for use in an airliner where FAA and airline regulations prohibit cell phones and other RF devices. The AIRPLANE MODE disables wifi, 3G and the GPS.
In responce to the statement above of "cheap antenna," in reference to the Ipad GPS, in my experience this is not the case. My Ipad will, if given enough time, acquire a GPS fix from within my closed hangar. This suggests that the GPS and its antenna are very sensitive the device has a very low signal to noise ratio. Also, you can turn off both wifi and 3G and it will still capture a satellite signal in comparable time other portable aviation GPS receivers.
TK at PUB
I have about 20 hours of use of my Ipad 3G in my Bonanza. As yet, I have never seen a problem with the Ipad acquiring satellites or a fix while in the air at speeds up to 170 knots.
One thing to check if you are having a problem. In SETTINGS on the Ipad is an AIRPLANE MODE function. For the GPS to work, this must be turned off. This function is only for use in an airliner where FAA and airline regulations prohibit cell phones and other RF devices. The AIRPLANE MODE disables wifi, 3G and the GPS.
In responce to the statement above of "cheap antenna," in reference to the Ipad GPS, in my experience this is not the case. My Ipad will, if given enough time, acquire a GPS fix from within my closed hangar. This suggests that the GPS and its antenna are very sensitive the device has a very low signal to noise ratio. Also, you can turn off both wifi and 3G and it will still capture a satellite signal in comparable time other portable aviation GPS receivers.
TK at PUB
w1curtis
Well Known Member
What about the Sprint MiFi which also has an enabled GPS and location services? Will your iPhone/iPad app work with that? Verizon disables the GPS in their Mi-Fi offering.
