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  #21  
Old 03-08-2019, 08:34 AM
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Dugaru Dugaru is offline
 
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Default Garmin will know, but...

...I don't think the 307 has any audio alert capability. If you are like me, with a G5 and 307 combination (rather than a G3X), I don't think you'll get any audio related to the autopilot.

This has proven to be a problem on two occasions that I can think of, when the autopilot died in flight (the logs indicated there was some sort of network error) and I only realized it because the airplane started acting funny. The visual warning on the G5 with the 307 is a small yellow flashing square that is easy to miss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
I notice the reference to audio alerts being new with the 507. I have a 307 that I am not yet flying. Will I get basic tones or messages from the 370 (connected to audio panel) when engaging or disengaging the AP?

Larry
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:17 AM
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Dugaru Dugaru is offline
 
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Default A different perspective

Levi:

I very much appreciate your response. I understand what you're trying to say, but as an early adopter of the 307/G5 combination, I can't help but look at it a bit differently. Let me explain why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
The GMC 307 is being produced for the time being as there are some customers who want/require this unit for certification or installation reasons...
I can't understand why anyone would want a 307 vs. a 507, but I'm no expert, so I'll take your word for it (seriously, not being glib there).

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
but it is not in the current Garmin produced marketing materials.
That's only true if you exclude your website from the category of "marketing materials." The 307 is being marketed on Garmin's website right now, and the marketing material on the website doesn't mention the 507 at all, and thus doesn't indicate that most (the vast majority?) of buyers would want the 507 instead:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/531504

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
If you talk to any dealer about which products to buy, they should point you to a 507 for a new installation.
I agree that they should be doing this, since I can't imagine an informed buyer would want a 307 -- but are they actually doing so? Has Garmin taken any steps to make sure they are doing so?

Or are the 307s in the pipeline being sold to people who probably would rather have 507s?

I fear it may be the latter. Note that online sellers--just like Garmin--don't seem to have marketing materials indicating that most buyers will want the 507. For example, here's what Aircraft Spruce's website says right now:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...SABEgKx9fD_BwE

Moreover, in the Q&A section, Aircraft Spruce is promoting the 307 AND the 507 for use with the G5 (rather than just the G3X), without saying anything at all about the differences between the two:

"[Q:] Which Garmin autopilot control head is needed for Garmin autopilot servos? This is a simple RV installation with only a G5. No G3 or other GPS Source. [A:] You'll need either the Garmin GMC 307 or Garmin GMC 507."

At least Spruce mentions the 507. Here's Gulf Coast Avionics. They market the 307, like Garmin, without mentioning the 507 at all, and don't even show the 507 as a related product:

https://www.gulfcoastavionics.com/pr...ontroller.aspx

Here's SteinAir. Perhaps a live person at SteinAir would talk you out of buying the 307, or maybe they'd intercept a web-based order for a 307 to talk the buyer out of it. But the website sure won't give anyone a clue:

https://www.steinair.com/product/gar...-control-head/

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
The GMC 307 is still fully supported and provides all of the features that were available when you purchased the product.
I don't disagree. But I think the change to the 507 was particularly meaningful, since I think the audio warning capability is a safety issue. I confess I didn't realize that until I got the 307 and it died twice with no audible warning. But I also suspect that Garmin, like me, realized at some point that they needed audio alerts for safety reasons (perhaps for the equivalent product in the certified market, due to FAA requirements?).

To me, a safety upgrade like this is different from other kinds of new features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
If you feel that the additional features in the 507 are worth upgrading for, you have that option as well. Garmin does not have a trade in program for the GMC, but you are certainly welcome to talk to your Garmin dealer about the best way to upgrade.
We're agreed that "upgrade" here means "buy a new 507 at full price," correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
Please don't think that you aren't a valued customer because we continue to make newer, better products and work hard to keep costs down so that we don't have to increase the price of our newer products.
That's one way of looking at it. Here's why I don't feel like a valued customer.

From my perspective, I'm an early adopter, which is the kind of customer you ought to like. In fact, I removed a partially installed autopilot by one of your competitors, and bought yours, because I liked Garmin.

But it turns out the product I bought in the early days needed an upgrade related to safety. My experience tells me that's the case. But my only "upgrade" path is to ditch the old one and buy the new model at full price.

Meanwhile, it's very possible more people like me are being created every day. It looks like Garmin continues to sell the old 307 product in the pipeline, without taking any of the obvious steps, on its own website or with its distributors, to ensure that future customers get the 507 they almost certainly would prefer, rather than the 307.

This all looks like a customer service failure to me. What am I missing?
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:26 AM
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g3xpert g3xpert is offline
 
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
I notice the reference to audio alerts being new with the 507. I have a 307 that I am not yet flying. Will I get basic tones or messages from the 370 (connected to audio panel) when engaging or disengaging the AP?

Larry
Hello Larry,

Nothing to worry about. Your G3X system with GDU 370 provides autopilot disconnect tones, terrain, traffic, and obstacle aural alerting, 500 ft voice callouts, and much more.

A G3X or G3X Touch system ONLY uses the alert audio from the PFD.

Thanks,
Steve
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:32 PM
snoop9erdog snoop9erdog is offline
 
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Default

Thanks for the help Steve. I’m planning on purchasing the 507 and wiring into the CAN Bus system. Good stuff
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:46 PM
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g3xpert g3xpert is offline
 
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Default

Dugaru,

There is no conspiracy about trying to sell GMC 307 units over 507 units. In fact, Garmin prefers to sell the 507. Unfortunately, the website has lagged behind, but I do appreciate you bringing this back to my attention.

I would recommend contacting your Garmin dealer to see if they can work with you on the terms of the upgrade.

If you would like to discuss this further, please contact us directly.

Thanks,
Levi Self
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Last edited by g3xpert : 03-08-2019 at 12:50 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2019, 01:09 PM
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Dugaru Dugaru is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
There is no conspiracy about trying to sell GMC 307 units over 507 units.
I did not claim, and do not think, that there is any "conspiracy about trying to sell GMC 307 units over 507 units."

I did claim--correctly--that Garmin and others were continuing to market the 307 without indicating that it had been superseded by a new product with an important new safety feature at the same price. I see that Garmin has now changed its website in that regard. That strikes me as a very positive development, and an indication that Garmin listens to its customers.

I appreciate the invitation to contact a dealer offline, but it seems to me that if Garmin is going to offer an option for 307 owners to upgrade to the 507 (other than buying a new 507 at full price....), Garmin should announce it publicly. These forums seem like a good spot for that, just like they are a great place for Garmin's other announcements.

I think most adopters of the 307/G5 autopilot combination would be interested in a reasonable upgrade path so that they can get audible alerts. I know I am.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2019, 01:36 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dugaru View Post
I think most adopters of the 307/G5 autopilot combination would be interested in a reasonable upgrade path so that they can get audible alerts. I know I am.
Contrary to popular belief, there are tons of people out there that do not want the latest and greatest and are looking to maximize their bang for the buck. Someone would be happy to have the 307 at a slightly reduced price vs new.

I suggest to stop complaining (not like it is getting you anywhere) and offer your 307 for sale. Someone will buy it and then you can use that money to go toward a 507 with a net reduction in total cost to you.

Garmin or any other manufacturer does not owe anyone a reasonable upgrade path (which you seem to relate to cost) when new products are released.
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2019, 04:43 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
Contrary to popular belief, there are tons of people out there that do not want the latest and greatest and are looking to maximize their bang for the buck. Someone would be happy to have the 307 at a slightly reduced price vs new.

I suggest to stop complaining (not like it is getting you anywhere) and offer your 307 for sale. Someone will buy it and then you can use that money to go toward a 507 with a net reduction in total cost to you.

Garmin or any other manufacturer does not owe anyone a reasonable upgrade path (which you seem to relate to cost) when new products are released.
Exactly right. This why we need a thumbs-up ‘Like’ button for posts...
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