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  #11  
Old 05-11-2006, 01:49 PM
Dave Cole's Avatar
Dave Cole Dave Cole is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick6a
When I assembled my leak free fuel tanks, I proceeded exactly as I would at work. There is no compelling reason to wallow around in wet sealer needlessly! I would commonly apply the proseal to the mating surfaces of the parts (called fay-sealing), 100% cleco the assembly together, then allow it set up somewhere between tack dry and full cure. That's it. Walk away. Upon returning to work the next day or even better....after the weekend, I would then remove every second or third cleco from the assembly, wet install and shoot the rivets, then repeat the process over and over again until all the rivets were set.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 124 hours
Rick,

Thanks for debunking the 'proseal nightmare' myth. I have been avoiding sealing my tanks for months, always looking for something else to work on. I had read so much about the trials of wallowing around in wet sealer that I couldn't even bring myself to ask anyone to help me with the project.

After reading your advice last night, I promptly got up from the computer and, following your suggestions, installed two tank ribs. There's not much mess at all when you don't try to rivet them while they are still wet. Today, everything looks great. And, I know that installing the rivets is a one-man job when everythig is dry...I did that on the leading edges.

Now I'm a believer. To seal your tanks, you don't have to make a mess, and you don't have to find a helper willing to make a mess with you.

Thanks again for getting me over the fear!

Dave Cole
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Last edited by Dave Cole : 05-11-2006 at 01:52 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2006, 02:54 PM
alpinelakespilot2000 alpinelakespilot2000 is offline
 
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Rick--

I always appreciate your posts because they seem to have some real world experience behind them. I agree that the proseal process does not need to be as daunting as we sometimes make it out to be. My one concern about your approach has to do with letting the sealant begin the curing process before riveting...

I know, in my case at least, that the clecos would not hold the rib very tightly against the skin, with or without proseal. As I riveted my ribs in wet, I was amazed at how much proseal squeezed out in the process (and I think I spread my proseal on the rib flanges very minimally!). If I had not riveted wet, all that proseal would still be between the rib and the skin. Thus, using your approach, as the proseal set, it would be creating a permanent and unecessarily large gap (in relative terms) between the skin and rib such that, when the rivet is set, the rivet would be be likely to expand between the layers rather than pull the two layers together. Maybe no leaks, but also not a very strong rivet. Maybe not a big problem in the real world (I really don't know), but it does seem to be one potential drawback to this method.

Again, thanks for your helpful posts in this forum.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2006, 04:05 PM
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Rick6a Rick6a is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinelakespilot2000
......that the clecos would not hold the rib very tightly against the skin, with or without proseal. As I riveted my ribs in wet, I was amazed at how much proseal squeezed out in the process.....your approach....be creating a permanent and unecessarily large gap (in relative terms) between the skin and rib...... Maybe no leaks, but also not a very strong rivet.......
Hi Steve,

Thank you for your kind words. I never suggest to others what I have not done for myself or have first hand knowledge based upon my experiences on the factory floor. At least two other local RV builders have adapted my technique for building the fuel tanks and have never looked back.

As you observed, by shooting the rivets while the sealer is still wet, much of it is squeezed out from between the parts. In reality, only a thin film remains. All the more reason why a good fillet seal (bead of sealer) around the perimeter of the parts is so vital. That really doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling of leak free security. Alternatively, if you 100% cleco the ribs into place, you will still note much squeeze-out of the wet sealer still occurs.....just not quite as much as when shooting the rivets while the sealer is still very wet. Remember, it can take days or even weeks for proseal to fully cure.

While I suppose the issue can be subject to debate, I do not believe the strength of the rivet shot after the sealer is allowed to tack dry is compromised in any measurable or meaningful way.

Whether one chooses to use this method or not, at the least, I hope I dispelled some of the sheer nonsense that continues to circulate relating to issues concerning proseal.

Best of luck,

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2006, 04:21 PM
alpinelakespilot2000 alpinelakespilot2000 is offline
 
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Makes sense, Rick. Thanks. I suspect you're right that by just letting it tack, but not cure, the riveting will still squeeze everything together.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2006, 08:10 PM
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smithhb smithhb is offline
 
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Default Question....

Rick, informed others,

Do you prefer to buy several of the small tubes of proseal or the large can? It seems that if you plan several "small" sessions you would waste a lot of proseal if you use the tubes.

Also, where have you guys found the best price for proseal?
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  #16  
Old 05-19-2006, 08:53 PM
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I didn't like the prefilled tubes. There was a lot of waste.
I preferred using syringes I bought from a pet store. Get the large ones for horses and fill it yourself from the quart kit. Change your gloves after loading & you're ready to go.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2006, 08:01 AM
chaskuss chaskuss is offline
 
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Rick,
Great advice. To bad it's about 5 years to late for me. I used Dan's method of using hypodermic syringes. You can buy them at the drug store. I bummed mine from a dentist friend and a veterinarian friend.
Using the syringe method allows you to "thin" your ProSeal as needed. Use toluene or lacquer thinner to thin ProSeal. Lacquer thinner is about 93% toluene. Toluene is the thinning agent used by the manufacturer.
One good tip not previously mentioned is to use blue "painters" masking tape. Tape off the areas you don't want the ProSeal to get on. I've found that ProSeal is like Napalm and NeverSeize. Trying to remove these 3 substances only makes them spread more!
I like to put on 2 or 3 layers of latex gloves. As the outer pair of gloves get soiled, I can simply peel them off. I don't have to stop work to get my hands clean.
I like to use tongue depressors or popsicle sticks for applying the fillets of ProSeal. It is during this phase that the painters tape really helps. I've built 5 fuel tanks so far, with no leaks.
Charlie Kuss
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  #18  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:14 AM
rtl_flyer rtl_flyer is offline
 
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I am just about to seal the inspection panel and fit the fuel sender. Any tips on the best use of the pro-seal. Eg.

The cork seal. Proseal both sides, or not at all. Just seal the screws?

The sender has a rubber gasket, do I proeal it or just the screws?

Any advise welcome.

Tim.
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  #19  
Old 06-08-2006, 06:45 AM
DGlaeser DGlaeser is offline
 
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Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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Default Tank cover sealing

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtl_flyer
I am just about to seal the inspection panel and fit the fuel sender. Any tips on the best use of the pro-seal. Eg.

The cork seal. Proseal both sides, or not at all. Just seal the screws?

The sender has a rubber gasket, do I proeal it or just the screws?

Any advise welcome.

Tim.
I plan to use Titeseal instead of ProSeal, and apply it to both sides of the cork gasket and on the screw threads. Titeseal doesn't 'dry' or 'cure' so any future removals will be far easier than with ProSeal.

I currently have my sender ProSealed to the cover with no rubber gasket (and hope I never have to remove it :-). I didn't know about Titeseal at the time. If I ever have to remove it I will re-install it with cork gaskets and Titeseal. Titeseal needs some sort of gasket between metal surfaces so that all the material is not squeezed out. From the comments I've seen, cork seems to work well because it 'absorbes' the Titeseal a bit. Another way is to use an open weave scrim cloth as a 'gasket' with the Titeseal. I haven't seen any reports about using Titeseal with the rubber gasket. You can always try it and let us know how it goes. The good news is that if it doesn't work, it's easy to remove and use a different gasket.
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  #20  
Old 06-08-2006, 11:30 AM
rlo1 rlo1 is offline
 
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I am about half way through with my tanks. I am installing the interior ribs and am down to about 2.5 hours for two ribs. The first two ribs took five hours to get through. It takes about 7-8 oz of sealant (by weight) to do two ribs. That is about two golfball size lumps. I use the vans technique . I bought a semco gun on ebay, awesome tool. I measure using a scale, mix by hand (Drill) and load the cartridge. I am also using multiple layers of latex gloves. I have burned through about 150 so far. I would rather toss a glove than sit there and try to clean it with solvent. I am using acetone as much as possible as I really hate MEK. Acetone works OK, just not as good as MEK. I have installed 8 of the 14 ribs to date. I am looking forward to getting through this phase.
-Ron

http://www.kitlog.com/users/index.ph...lo1&project=99
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