VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-7/7A
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-28-2017, 07:34 AM
StickNRudder StickNRudder is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 38
Question Tail wheel takeoff technique for bumps

I had an unpleasant takeoff from Catalina island. I am a tail wheel noob and my normal takeoff technique is to fly the tail early so I can see. While on the roll at Catalina near rotate speed, I hit a hump in the runway which launched me in the air. I got the nose down and accelerated and continued flying but it was not pleasant (and it was my Wifeís first trip in the plane).

I am pretty sure that when the wheels hit the hump, the inertia of the tail kept it where it was with the nose rising, increasing the AOA inducing a premature lift off. The question is, what is the best technique to prevent that.
__________________
Rick Woods
N5427W == Jack, Hank, Barbara, and Rick Woods.
RV-7
Flying, but not done, never done.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:04 AM
Plummit's Avatar
Plummit Plummit is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 697
Default

I don't think you did anything wrong, but you probably could have lifted off a bit earlier.

I have refused to go to AVX in my -10 - the runway was rough 3 years ago when we had our C-172 and I've heard it is in bad shape now. I would think they would take some of the $$$ they charge for landing fees and fix the runway!

-Marc
__________________
RV-10
N814RV
2018 Donation made!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:15 AM
iwannarv iwannarv is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Stafford, KS
Posts: 277
Default

I fly an RV8 off a fairly rough grass airstrip. One direction on the runway there is a dip that is a guarantee to bounce you into the air. 2 up it will settle back to the ground. 1 up it might stay airborne but might not. I just keep a tailwheel low attitude no matter what it does and let the airplane fly when it's ready. I might use a little more back pressure on the stick if that will soften the bounce or release pressure to keep it in ground effect if it does want to fly, always trying to keep that similar attitude. It could be different every time.

So on overall technique, keep a set attitude, let the plane fly when it wants, fly it when it does!
__________________
Brad Brensing
RV-10 Tailcone
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:33 AM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,389
Default

I am not familiar with this runway but knowing that it only takes a few hundred feet to get into the air in an RV gives you more options. It means that you do not have to start your roll at the end of the runway. Perhaps you could start your roll just before, or on top of the “hill” and thus avoiding the problem area. Typically it is safer to use the whole runway but sometimes it is not. Use all the advantages that the RV gives you.
__________________
Tom Martin RV1 pilot 4.6hours!
CPL & IFR rated
EVO F1 Rocket 1000 hours,
2010 SARL Rocket 100 race, average speed of 238.6 knots/274.6mph
RV4, RV7, RV10, two HRIIs and five F1 Rockets
RV14 Tail dragger flying #153

Fairlea Field
St.Thomas, Ontario Canada, CYQS
fairleafield@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:52 AM
John Courte John Courte is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 625
Default

KPAO is interesting like that, at least it was for me last time I took off from there.

There's a low spot in the runway where your wheels leave the ground, then contact it again on the other side of the dip. If you're not ready for it, it can be a surprise. Not a big thing, I just gracelessly bounced into the air slightly ahead of schedule but it was not the slickest-feeling takeoff I've ever done.
__________________
RV-7
Phase II as of 7/19/2014
http://stjohn.openbar.com/airplane
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-28-2017, 02:41 PM
luddite42 luddite42 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 389
Default

Sometimes there's not much you can do to avoid getting bounced into the air prematurely. No need to raise the tail high for takeoff, hold it tail low and accept what comes. Partial flap doesn't hurt. If you get bounced into the air before you intend to lift off, hold the stick steady just like you would for a bounce on landing. No need to significantly lower the nose, just don't let it keep coming up. It's very unlikely you'll ever get close to stalling. At full power, an extremely nose high attitude would be required to stall. Full power on stall attitude is significantly more nose high than a power off stall attitude - much steeper than the airplane sits 3-point. In addition to this, you'd need to have the stick near fully aft to stall. Go to altitude and mess with full power stalls. There is really little to fear in flying the airplane prematurely at very low airspeed (even below power off stall speed) in ground effect long enough for the airplane to accelerate to normal climb speed. Just use common sense in gusty conditions. Stall speed is also significantly reduced under full power. Just be sure to use that right rudder as needed in a high power low airspeed configuration.

Last edited by luddite42 : 12-28-2017 at 02:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-28-2017, 06:28 PM
Plummit's Avatar
Plummit Plummit is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 697
Default Airnav has this to say about AVX:

Surface: asphalt, in fair condition(?)
POTHOLES AND LOOSE PAVEMENT FRAGMENTS ON RY.

- SFC ROUGH WITH NMRS POTHOLES & SOFT SPOTS.

Don't need it can't use it..... There are too many quality places to fly that don't charge landings fees and take care of their runways. I don't mind the landing fees but the conservancy needs to spend the $$$ on the airport.

~Marc
__________________
RV-10
N814RV
2018 Donation made!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-28-2017, 09:49 PM
StickNRudder StickNRudder is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 38
Default

Thanks. To sum up, ride a little tail low during the takeoff roll. Would it be advisable to keep the tail wheel down completely? Seems like that might avoid the AOA increase during bumps.

As far as Catalina is concerned, I heard that there is a negotiation with the Navy right now. They want to use the field for training. Apparently, if the conservancy buys the material, the Navy will do the work. Catalina is the closest Iíll ever come to an aircraft carrier landing.
__________________
Rick Woods
N5427W == Jack, Hank, Barbara, and Rick Woods.
RV-7
Flying, but not done, never done.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-29-2017, 08:59 AM
EXflyer EXflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chiloquin OR
Posts: 81
Default

Years back in a tail dragger forced the tail up a little too soon, crosswind, not much took over and almost found a row of trees after lifting off a little too soon resulted..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-29-2017, 12:10 PM
springer springer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AZ/MN
Posts: 304
Default Learn from the expert

Charles Lindbergh had the same issue. Starts at 1:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaGWW_TemKs
__________________
Jim
RV-4 '88-'09 Built & Sold
RV-8 Purchased
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:24 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.