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SPOT 2 way Satellite messenger?

flyboy1963

Well Known Member
SPOT 2 way Satellite messenger vs InReach costs?

This just popped up on my email from Aircraft Spruce.( Canada)

so, about $350... plus $200 a year for a big orange.....blackberry? ;-)

I doubt anyone has one yet, but I really need a plain English explanation of how exactly this works.

It has a US cel number, but I can use it in Canada....so will there be roaming charges if I text someone?....
or does it go to their satellite base on the moon ( Texas?) and then relayed thru the cel network to my desired contact.

I guess they had to do something to claw back the market share they are losing to InReach.
 
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Perry - good questions. The new Spot-X is just like previous SPOT devices, but has a better user interface to support texting.

It's a satellite-based system rather than cellular, so no roaming fees will apply. You're always roaming. :)

The US-based number is because SPOT is US-based in terms of their ground earth station infrastructure, so they have a block of phone numbers to use for SMS-based text messaging.

A text message sent from the SPOT will go up to the satellite, down to the ground earth station, then it will be patched into the US domestic phone service for forwarding to the destination phone number just as though it were a regular cellular SMS message. Except, of course, for those SOS messages which are handled in a different manner (one hopes) after they hit the ground earth station.

As for InReach, now that it's a Garmin company I'll be doing my best to avoid their product. I'm looking hard at this new SPOT X and am hoping there might be some better deals available at AirVenture this year.
 
its $250 at Aircraftspruce (US) and 200 a year for weekender subscription. Yhis actually doesnt sound too bad to me and is only about 50 a year than my spot subscription. Being able to do 30 text messages a month and unlimited tracking serms like a good deal to me. i do a lot of hiking and cycling where I am out alone and i am thinking its worth $2.50 a month more for the text messaging. Seems like you could also sent text messages while fly8mg if needed.
 
I use InReach. Very affordable plans, can be turned off if you dont use it. Reactivate when you want.
Spot has a horrible reputation from what I read on the Off road motorcycle forums (ADV). Please do your research before you decide how to roll.
 
actual user data needed!

to expand on Aviator's comment; my ol spot 1 and 2 seemed to eventually get a sat lock when out on the airport on the dash of my RV.

the Spot 3, for all it's gadgetry, has often failed to acquire sat lock. Perhaps 50% of the time.
on the windowsill of my house, with no obstruction of half the sky....never did connect. On the dash of my truck, same thing.

Last year we did an overnite survival shakedown; one of the guys setup his SPOT in a clearing, with some light trees spaced around the perimeter...certainly no rocks in the way. Failed to send an 'ok' message, as I recall, even after being on most of the morning.

so is the performance up to the hype? Am I gonna invest another 5 or $600 bucks? hmmmmmmm
 
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By its very nature, SPOT has very little satellite link margin. Unlike a 406MHz ELT that broadcasts its 406 message at 5 watts, the SPOT transmits with a couple of hundred milliwatts. With this little power, vegetation attenuation can literally wipe your SPOT signal off the map.

As an FYI, conifers suck up more signal than deciduous trees. Also, especially for you, Perry, keep in mind SPOT is "line of sight" to the satellite. Put some granite between you and the satellite and you're not going to get a message through.

With this in mind, get out from under the trees, and get up the side of a hill to improve your messaging capability with SPOT. Frankly, the same applies to InReach, too.
 
Works well for me

I have the original SPOT messenger. It's never failed to send a position message for me. I use it every time I fly. I press the "OK" button at every landing so that I can check that it is working. Usually shows my position within about 20 feet. On longer flights I use the tracking feature and it works fine.

Just my experience that it is doing it's job as advertised.

Chris
 
First of all, I'm glad to see some competition with the portable sat devices. I've personally been an Inreach user for a little over a year. Probably have close to 300 hours of time in the field on my Inreach. In that time it's proven to match specs on battery life and performance. Links very easily with my smartphone. As far as reliability, I've had to do a soft reset once. Likely because I (as usual) start pushing buttons before the device boots up totally.

A very technically savvy friend of mine saw my Inreach on a trip recently and decided he wanted to get one. Seeing the new Spot X on the market, he did some pretty thorough comparisons and ultimately went with the Inreach. His thoughts:

"...after reading all of the support horror stories for Spot, the newness of this new device (zero reviews), reports that previous Spot devices only had a .4W transmitter (hence the better battery life) vs 1.6W on the Garmin, the fact that Garmin uses Iridium and Spot does not, and the fact that Garmin is much more likely to be around for the long term, and the price reduction to $375 for the Explorer version, I decided the better part of valor was to go with the tried and true, but somewhat more expensive option."
 
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On the other side of the world here in South Africa, In am one of the Spot dealers and I am using it wherever I fly. It has really done great here in our part of the world.
 
I just used mine on a road trip from Nova Scotia to Florida to pick up a kit. I had concerns that while at a hotel at night the trailer with it's contents might take a walk. I installed a PVC electrical box on top of the trailer and dropped the SPOT in it. It tracked the entire trip along with many hits at the same location while in a motel. In the motel roam, I would just check the SPOT location on my phone and if it had not moved I was quite sure it was still just outside. Trip went well and I did not need to track the trailer's location in the morning.
I was impressed with it's service. I use it most times while flying and unless the batteries are week , I get a track on my account when I check after I return.
 
reviving this topic

I'm sure more has been said on this, but I want to expand on the comments made;
now in 2019, after I hoped Garmin's InReach would be a viable alternative to SPOT, I'm crushed!

I had to do a little pencil tabulation....looks like this;

Inreach mini $350 US $450 cdn tax in $504
Inreach explorer $450 US $590 cdn tax in $660
All this with no accessories

Annual plan with 10 minute tracking, almost useless $13/month,
a couple weather updates per flight = $5 one hr flight average $250
50 flight hours per year $13/month $156
Total about $430 US
Two minute tracking option, annual plan $80/month= $960 us $1300 cdn
Monthly plan & fees for 6 months @ $125/mo = $750 $1010 cdn

SPOT X purchase $350 cdn
Annual plan ?basic? haha $200 $300cdn tax incl
2.5 min tracking, when it works $99 $140 cdn
Total $440

So it looks like the options are:
InReach ? a $500 or $700 gadget, will last a couple years, annual fee $1000 (min)
SPOT - $350 gadget, with performance issues??? annual fees of $400+ a year,

Am I missing something, or has this just become total BS?
 
I'd really love to know why some people have performance issues with their Spot, and I and others I know have had none. The only time i've had trouble with my Spot is when I forget and turn it on after i've started moving. It has a harder time locking in when it's not sitting still. And yet, even then, it's always locked in after a couple of minutes, and the tracks I get back after a flight look great to me (5 minute tracking - more than adequate).

I do concede that the original Spot was really bad with the initial lock problem... It had to sit for 5 minutes or more in a clear area to get a lock before you moved it, or you'd probably never get a lock at all. I think that alone was responsible for 90% of the Spot complaints, and maybe still a high percentage of complaints people find today if they google for "spot problems". The Gen3 model uses a much improved GPS chip that locks in much faster in my experience.
 
I'd really love to know why some people have performance issues with their Spot, and I and others I know have had none.

SPOT lists alkaline batteries as a requirement. I used to think that requirement was BS until I started having performance issues. Just for kicks, I changed the installed non-alkaline batteries with alkaline batteries. My issues went away, and have stayed away. Probably not the cause of all of the reported issues, but likely some of them...
 
SPOT lists alkaline batteries as a requirement. I used to think that requirement was BS until I started having performance issues. Just for kicks, I changed the installed non-alkaline batteries with alkaline batteries. My issues went away, and have stayed away. Probably not the cause of all of the reported issues, but likely some of them...

Ummm... I don't wish to be argumentative however it might be helpful to point out that this statement may not apply to all SPOT devices. There's maybe a small chance that you got mixed up with respect to which batteries are recommended for your unit. I just opened up a friend's SPOT 3 this afternoon. Inside the battery compartment is a note that says Lithium or NiMH batteries ONLY, NO ALKALINES.

As for performance, both the Garmin/DeLorme and SPOT devices are satellite-based thus are line-of-sight for communications. The Garmin/DeLorme seems to have a bit more transmit power, thus is more likely to overcome local signal attenuation by things like vegetation but the link margins are still fairly small if one wants to operate in difficult terrain or in the forest.

As for GPS - the earlier comment about the generational improvement of GPS chipsets is bang on the money. We're now picking up GPS signals inside buildings and in other locations that would not have been possible a decade ago, thanks to incredible improvements in GPS signal processing in the newer chipsets. It really is amazing to see how far GPS has come since the 80's when I first started working on airborne GPS receivers.
 
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Ummm... I don't wish to be argumentative however it might be helpful to point out that this statement may not apply to all SPOT devices. There's maybe a small chance that you got mixed up with respect to which batteries are recommended for your unit.

You?re absolutely correct. My recollection wasn?t correct on the type of battery suggested by Spot. The message stays the same though, in that using a battery other than that which is suggested by Spot has caused me to see poor performance from my unit. If I had further performance issues, that?s where I?d start.

Thanks for the correction!
 
Interesting video of a Cirrus crash and Inreach tracker

I use the basic Spot3, but the look on this guys face when the text came in that search and rescue was on its way has me rethinking the texting options.

https://youtu.be/pSiTpHNq-IA
 
Ummm... I don't wish to be argumentative however it might be helpful to point out that this statement may not apply to all SPOT devices. There's maybe a small chance that you got mixed up with respect to which batteries are recommended for your unit. I just opened up a friend's SPOT 3 this afternoon. Inside the battery compartment is a note that says Lithium or NiMH batteries ONLY, NO ALKALINES.
My recollection is that my First-gen SPOT said it could use Alkalines, but they recommended Lithiums. I only tried Alkalines once, and the battery life was poor. The Lithiums last an entire flying season for me.

My SPOT 3 has lithiums in it (as you point out, SPOT says *only* lithiums), but it is also plugged into ship's power via the micro-USB port on the back. So the batteries are only ever used when I unplug it to take in the car or on the bicycle.
 
SPOT vs Tracking time

Rob (Snowflake)

''the tracks I get back after a flight look great to me (5 minute tracking - more than adequate).''

You gotta remember than you are moving at about 2.5NM/ Min in an RV X 5 = 12.5 NM...

It is a huge distance as far as SAR goes....

As a former SAR crew in the Air Force I can tell you this create a fairly large search area every minute reducing your chance of been find...

I believe the Spot 2 had a 2 min tracking time and the SPOT 3 is probably better..

But it is better than nothing..

Bruno
 
Bruno, keep in mind that when i'm moving that fast i'm also generally following a track, and won't be 180 degrees behind the last waypoint. If I go missing, i'm most likely going to be in a 5 degree triangle with its apex at that last point. And if I have an emergency in flight (like an engine failure), the SOS button will bump the tracking speed up to 2 or 1 minute, I forget what the highest rate is.

If the reason I go lost is that I haven't seen what i'm running into (VFR into IMC into towering cumulogranite), they don't need to find me anyway. I won't survive it.
 
Also, keep in mind that you have an ELT on board the aircraft. Spend the $$ and update it to a 406MHz unit and register it properly. Doing so considerably shrinks the size of the search area.

The breadcrumb trail from SPOT or InReach just tells SAR where to start looking after somebody has reported you missing. Doing the best you possibly can to ensure your ELT is installed for maximum survivability and optimal signal transmission will help ensure SAR is notified of the crash quickly. At that point the breadcrumb trail becomes a very good backup to the ELT.
 
Also, keep in mind that you have an ELT on board the aircraft. Spend the $$ and update it to a 406MHz unit and register it properly.
With Aireon online now, i'd rather wait for a crash-sensing ADS-B-out solution. At least that would give me something useful for the rest of my flight, rather than be dead weight until I crash.
 
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