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  #11  
Old 12-01-2019, 07:38 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida Keys/Cleveland Ga
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The one thing I am now aware of with the Earth X is that the battery can be fully charged and usable, but the protective circuit can fail. In this case my guess was that you have also lost the protection that prevents a thermal run away. This is why I grounded the plane. I have a single battery, dual alternators, a Garmin G5 with a backup battery. I have good redundancy. Definitely have some questions for Earth X tomorrow. Other than this one issue, I have been pleased with the performance of the battery. But they need a 24 hour hotline available for someone who is stuck in the cold weather and being attacked by the grandkids at six every morning so the problem can be quickly resolved.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2019, 08:24 PM
romaja romaja is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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I had a EarthX in a EAB aircraft I completed in 2016. Same issue. After approximately 100 hours of use, when I would turn the Battery switch to on, the battery would supply power for a fraction of a second. Then I would hear a clunk and the battery would shut itself down. If I waited several minutes and cycled the battery switch on again, sometimes it it come to life and sometimes it wouldn't.

Since I was flying into backcountry strips, tidal areas etc, I lost faith in the battery and the BMS system as I didn't want to get stuck with no way to start my aircraft.

I called EarthX and they immediately sent me a new battery and postage to return the defective one all free of charge. The second battery worked normally. They were very accommodating.

The smart batteries today with a Battery Management System have a mind of their own. This can be a good thing and a bad thing.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:57 PM
rvdave rvdave is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romaja View Post
I had a EarthX in a EAB aircraft I completed in 2016. Same issue. After approximately 100 hours of use, when I would turn the Battery switch to on, the battery would supply power for a fraction of a second. Then I would hear a clunk and the battery would shut itself down. If I waited several minutes and cycled the battery switch on again, sometimes it it come to life and sometimes it wouldn't.

Since I was flying into backcountry strips, tidal areas etc, I lost faith in the battery and the BMS system as I didn't want to get stuck with no way to start my aircraft.

I called EarthX and they immediately sent me a new battery and postage to return the defective one all free of charge. The second battery worked normally. They were very accommodating.

The smart batteries today with a Battery Management System have a mind of their own. This can be a good thing and a bad thing.
I had the same experience with my first EarthX this year where after just a month it went to no output, wouldn’t charge. So far the second one has lasted a few months as a backup second battery. Not sure if I would yet be confident as a primary although others have had no problems. Could have been old inventory as the first one came from acs.
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:41 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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the potential reliability issues of these BMS' is what has kept me away from the EarthX. I am still considering the less sophisticated Lifpo's without the BMS, but not ready to go there yet. Just dealing with the weight of lead until I get more comfortable.

Larry
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2019, 02:24 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida Keys/Cleveland Ga
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FYI I made a detailed posting in the general discussion section concerning the Earth X. I have an Odyssey being shipped. Does anyone have the station distance for recalculating W&B for the battery.

Larry, the problem with Lithium batteries is the possibility of a thermal run away. This is why they cannot be shipped via air. The BMS is suppose to help prevent this from occurring, but during my phone conversation with Earth X I found out it does not guarantee preventing it. I did not know that. One more reason I’m going back to a good old lead battery.

Last edited by togaflyer : 12-02-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2019, 06:00 AM
svyolo svyolo is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: bellingham, wa
Posts: 169
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Every lithium battery requires some kind of BMS, either in the battery, or the device being powered. If not they can be damaged, which is what usually causes the thermal runaway. Overcharging and over discharging are both dangerous.

Hopefully EarthX gets theirs working correctly as I am about to buy one.

Even the cheapest sub 100 mobile phone has a BMS. I have yet to see somebody pull out a smoking phone out of their pocket. Obviously, it has happened, but is pretty rare. I have never seen it personally. Or a laptop, or a tablet.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2019, 08:28 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 1,837
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Research the phone example. It does happen...more often than you might think and the cause is usually improper Charger...
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2019, 08:36 AM
svyolo svyolo is offline
 
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Location: bellingham, wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
Research the phone example. It does happen...more often than you might think and the cause is usually improper Charger...
I've been trained every year for 15-20 years on dealing with them going off on commercial aircraft. I know it happens, but I have never seen it. I am not sure I even know anybody that has ever seen it.

Pretty rare. Earthx shutting off? Maybe for a reason? Maybe BMS is defective, or the battery is and the BMS is shutting it off?

I am still going to start with an Earthx starter battery.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2019, 08:55 AM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
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Location: Florida Keys/Cleveland Ga
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FYI

Accident investigators have traced a fire that destroyed a UPS Boeing 747 in the United Arab Emirates in 2010 to the lithium batteries being carried in the cargo hold. Unless something is done to prevent similar disasters, the FAA now says such crashes are all but inevitable in the future.
A 322-page report issued by the UAE’s General Civil Aviation Authority determined that heat from the fire disabled the crew’s oxygen system and that smoke filled the cockpit within three minutes of the first warning, obscuring the pilots’ view. Both crew members were killed when the 747-44AF crashed on Sept. 3, 2010, near Dubai.

Investigators say the crash highlights the risks posed by lithium batteries, which are prone to overheating leading to intense fires. The NTSB held a two-day meeting in April to explore the dangers of these types of batteries. In a recent report issued by the FAA in conjunction with Transport Canada, the agencies predicted there will be an average of six cargo plane crashes between now and 2021, with four of them likely to be caused by battery fires.

Lithium backup batteries in the Boeing 787 Dreamliner overheated aboard two airplanes and prompted the FAA to ground the fleet for months earlier this year. Investigators in the UK, meanwhile, traced a fire this month in an Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 787 at London Heathrow International Airport to the lithium batteries in the airplane's emergency locator transmitters.
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:47 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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As you all debate the Earthx product, a reminder that for the RV-10 battery weight is advantageous for W&B in standard configuration builds (as in no big aft AC unit).

What battery(s) is always a topic for debate. I offer that two PC-625s fit nicely in a slightly modified standard Van’s battery tray, provide option for a much more robust two battery power architecture, and yield a very nice W&B (assuming a standard IO-540 and Hartzell BA prop).

I replace one battery every three years so neither battery is more than six years old (this is a simple way to have some assurance of battery reserve). The pulled batteries go on for a second five or more years in law tractors and such.

Another consideration is if you end up abusing one (e.g. leave one of the masters on) many places have a Battery Mart or similar nearby to pick up a replacement.

Carl
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