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Getting My Repairmans Certificate

J

JohnF

Well Known Member
I attended an EAA workshop and took the 16-hour, two-day course that is required in order to get an LSA Repairmans Certificate so I could do the annual condition inspection on the RV-12. When I finished my RV6A 16-years ago I just filled out a form and mailed it to the FAA, and got the certificate in a few days.

Today things are different. After driving 4-hours to get to the DEN airport area, I spent about 45-minutes driving around in the complex frontage and service roads at the Denver International airport trying to find the FSDO, and had to ask several people where the FAA Flight Standards Office was. The most articulate and accurate response I got was from a local pilot who worked for a charter outfit. He said, "Oh they really hide themselves."

I finally found a guard shack in front of a large unmarked building way out on the eastern Colorado prairie well away from the airport. Two uniformed guards came out and directed me. I parked and walked up to a door. It was locked. Inside I could see two uniformed guards. Finally one pushed a button and the door unlocked. I had to sign in, provide photo ID, phone number, state my business, and was told to wait until someone "came down for me."

I ended up with a large VISITOR tag attached to me, and in the company of three FAA Inspectors. I gave them copies of my AW certificate, my aircraft registration, a copy of my operating limitations, "diploma" from the EAA course and waited. Things went well until they began examining the operating limitations. I showed them my log where the Phase 1 completion entry was made, they they wanted to know where the Phase 2 operating limitations was. I explained that all the restrictions for Phase 2 are in the material I gave them; but they were concerned about when Phase 2 would expire. I explined that it didn't expire. Someone got out an FAA manual and study began. They looked, and looked, and hem'ed and haw'ed, and finally disappeared, leaving one Inspector with me to complete the paperwork.

They were friendly but obviously didn't have a good grip on ELSA.

While they were debating, I asked where the men's room was. A woman at the desk said she would have to go with me. I could not move by myself.
I thought maybe she'd hold my hand, but she decided to remain just outside the door until my job was done.

I got the Repairman Certificate, but these nice folks are still struggling with the Administration's tangle of regulations.

When done, I had to be accompanied down to the front door before I could proceed alone.

What a mish-mash !
 
Security

JohnF said:
I attended an EAA workshop and took the 16-hour, two-day course that is required in order to get an LSA Repairmans Certificate so I could do the annual condition inspection on the RV-12. When I finished my RV6A 16-years ago I just filled out a form and mailed it to the FAA, and got the certificate in a few days.

Today things are different. After driving 4-hours to get to the DEN airport area, I spent about 45-minutes driving around in the complex frontage and service roads at the Denver International airport trying to find the FSDO, and had to ask several people where the FAA Flight Standards Office was. The most articulate and accurate response I got was from a local pilot who worked for a charter outfit. He said, "Oh they really hide themselves."

I finally found a guard shack in front of a large unmarked building way out on the eastern Colorado prairie well away from the airport. Two uniformed guards came out and directed me. I parked and walked up to a door. It was locked. Inside I could see two uniformed guards. Finally one pushed a button and the door unlocked. I had to sign in, provide photo ID, phone number, state my business, and was told to wait until someone "came down for me."

I ended up with a large VISITOR tag attached to me, and in the company of three FAA Inspectors. I gave them copies of my AW certificate, my aircraft registration, a copy of my operating limitations, "diploma" from the EAA course and waited. Things went well until they began examining the operating limitations. I showed them my log where the Phase 1 completion entry was made, they they wanted to know where the Phase 2 operating limitations was. I explained that all the restrictions for Phase 2 are in the material I gave them; but they were concerned about when Phase 2 would expire. I explined that it didn't expire. Someone got out an FAA manual and study began. They looked, and looked, and hem'ed and haw'ed, and finally disappeared, leaving one Inspector with me to complete the paperwork.

They were friendly but obviously didn't have a good grip on ELSA.

While they were debating, I asked where the men's room was. A woman at the desk said she would have to go with me. I could not move by myself.
I thought maybe she'd hold my hand, but she decided to remain just outside the door until my job was done.

I got the Repairman Certificate, but these nice folks are still struggling with the Administration's tangle of regulations.

When done, I had to be accompanied down to the front door before I could proceed alone.

What a mish-mash !
Click to expand...

Sounds like Australia is'nt the only stupid place in the World then! LOL
 
Repairman Certificate Application requirements

The quote below is from Joe Norris at EAA Headquarters
Sounds like your FSDO is playing fast and loose with the regulation and policy on issuing these repairman certificates. There is NO requirement for an ELSA repairman certificate that the owner has had anything to do with the building of the aircraft. NO construction logs are required. NO completion of the flight test is required. NO requirement for a certificate of compliance from the aircraft manufacturer. NO requirement for a POH, let alone a training supplement.

EAA is an approved source for ELSA repairman inspection training. Here is what our approved course guidance says about what the applicant needs to bring to the FSDO:

a. Photo ID, such as valid U.S. issued driver?s license or passport.
b. Completed FAA Form 8610-2.
c. Original copy of Certificate of Completion from the 16 course.
d. Copy of your E-LSA aircraft registration certificate FAA form 8050-3.
e. Copy of your E-LSA airworthiness certificate FAA form 8130-7.
f. Copy of your E-LSA operating limitations.

THAT'S IT! You should not be required to have anything beyond these items.

I'm happy that you got your certificate. I'm just posting this as info for other applicants in the future.
__________________
Cheers!

Joe
Click to expand...
 
That quotation from Joe Norris is over a year old after my first visit to the local FSDO. Nice to know nothing has changed in the learning curve of this simple FAR at the home office.
 
You know, those guys have a tough job

While I worked at Douglas Aircraft in Long Beach for a year or so (around 1982) one of my responsibilities was the technical library which contained several book cases of FAA requirement documents. I had 2 or 3 people maintaining that library and the constantly changing documents. It should not be surprising that they have to research the specific requirements and interpret them as they apply to a specific case, especially one that they have never dealt with before.

Many years later in 2004 when I worked for JPL in Pasadena I went to the FSDO in Long Beach for my RV-6A repairman certificate. My experience was a thorough review of my builder's log and the photo record and questioning by 3 or 4 FAA personnel and I was approved in about an hour. That certificate is golden in my opinion and the careful checking is warranted.

Bob Axsom
 
All FSDO's are not created equal.....

.... as I have said before. After I took the class (during tornado week at SNF) I emailed my friendly and well informed inspector at the local FSDO and asked him when he would be visiting my airport next. He let me know when he would be there and I met him that day. Fifteen minutes later I had my temporary certificate and we moved on to chatting about some of the local in-progress restoration projects.
 
Agree with Big John - -

My FSDO told me to bring 2 things. I had a lot more with me. But he looked at the 2 things, and helped me fill out the paperwork. Was out the door in half an hour. Was super nice about it also.

John Bender
 
Tampa FSDO..

was nice to deal with also. I took all of the documentation I had on the building process for my RV-7A including building log and photos ( I had hundreds, overkill ) and met with the FSDO inspector. Yes, in order to get in the door I had to be met in the building lobby and escorted up to the office by a very cordial and pleasant clerk. I had to be keyed in by this lady and had to sign in with my name and SSN. It's a sign of the time in which we live. Thank Osama Bin Laden for this. I met with one gentleman who looked at my documentation and likewise helped me fill out the paperwork. It took about a half hour and my repairman's certificate came in the mail in a few weeks. I think there is probably a lot more homebuilding activity in this area so the folks at the Tampa FSDO might be used to this and so it was no big deal.

Perhaps a different FSDO in your area would make the process a little easier.

Bill Near



JBPILOT said:
My FSDO told me to bring 2 things. I had a lot more with me. But he looked at the 2 things, and helped me fill out the paperwork. Was out the door in half an hour. Was super nice about it also.

John Bender
Click to expand...
 
A related question:multiple owners

For you noted authorities on everything:
I understand that only one EAB repairmen certificate is issued to the original builder.
For ELSA inspection, if their are multiple owners (me and my favorite wife) on the registration (alas, whenever I can get to that step), if both owners take the 16-hour inspection course, can both owners obtain an inspection rating for that aircraft?
 
Cincinnati FSDO was great.

When I called the Cincinnati FSDO to set up the appointment for the Airworthiness Certificate, I told the inspector that I had taken the 16-hour course. He told me to complete the paperwork (he mailed a copy to me) and send that and a copy of the Course certificate along with the airworthiness certificate paperwork.
After checking out 143WM he gave me the Airworthiness Ceritficate and repairman's certificate at the same time.

Sure was nice!

Wayne 120241
 
I don't get it.

I know plenty of builders who never got the repairmans certificate. They do annuals and are meticulous in every aspect of their aircraft. What happens if I don't have the repairmans cert? We have already agreed on here via part 43 that anyone can do anything to an experimental. My FSDO had absolutely no idea what I was talking about, I sat on hold for ten minutes while he googled it.

So, what if I no-got?
 
Just anyone can't do EVERYTHING to an experimental. Maintenance, yes. Modifications, yes.
Condition inspections, NO.

If you don't have the repairman certificate and you don't have the condition inspection signed off someone qualified (You're not, unless you're an A&P), then your airworthiness certificate is invalid.

Therefore, if you choose to go this route, you can also save some money on insurance. Because they ain't gonna pay.

Ask your FSDO to take a look at 65.103 and 65.104 for experimental amateur-built.

If you are talking e-LSA, see 65.107.
 
Last edited:
N130PM said:
So, what if I no-got?
Click to expand...

If it doesn't bother you to be "illegal", go for it! People drive and fly every day without licenses, proper registrations, no inspections etc. It will only catch up with you if you have an incident, or get checked for some other reason. Just don't expect your insurance company to pay off if you have a claim.

Oh and by the way, those of us who play by the rules would really like it if you would too. Rule breakers diminish the reputaion of the entire community.
 
Aviation Regulation

Did you know that only the Nukes industry is more regulated than aviation? Its no wonder so many are not only confused but intentionally "save the money on insurance". That said, I think it has paid for itself in spades. There is actually a safety culture in the aviation industry (including the pilots!). The only safety issue in the automobile industry is damage protection. I am aware of people that think nothing of driving after a few beers but wouldn't think of flying...what's wrong with that picture?
 
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