COMM Radio questions

Im working on my panel layout and trying to decide on what radio to get. It is a 9A. I don't think I need or want a NAV-COMM, but just a radio.

I have been looking at everything from the ICOM, V-6, to the new Garmin GRT 225. I don't know enough about them to chose which one is the best overall. The purchase prices are not that different to guide me one way or another. What about on-going costs or database updates?

I have narrowed my EFIS to either the GRT HRx or the Skyview - at least those are the ones I cut out pictures of and taped them to my blank panel! Any thoughts on a COMM or EFIS would be appreciated.

Thanks for the help. There are so many choices and Im sure all of them are good radios. The same with the EFIS. It is amazing what is available for us as experimental builders.

The iCom has the advantage of having serial inputs, which allow you to wire the EFIS of your choice right into to the audio system.

Icom

N941WR said:

The iCom has the advantage of having serial inputs, which allow you to wire the EFIS of your choice right into to the audio system.

Click to expand...

Is this true for the IC-200 and the IC-210? Just curious.

I have had an XCOM 760 in my 9A for over five years, and love it. It is far better than the radio in my Garmin 430 on every count. Small, about a pound, has an intercom and other bells and whistles, and not too expensive. Hard to beat!

Bob

I have had messages from a couple people saying their ICOM and XCOM were both very nice radios. Hooking it to the EFIS is a big thing, so I will have to check into that.

I am not anti garmin in any way and know they have great products, but they appear to be expensive to keep up to date, though that may not be true for the radios.

Thanks for the info.

The XCom radios support the Garmin frequency change serial protocol. I handle XCom repairs in the USA and can say there are no corners cut in the design of the radio, it is well-built with high quality components throughout. They are a small family operation that genuinely cares about the satisfaction of their customers. One thing often overlooked in avionics purchases is what happens if this thing ever breaks out of warranty, what am I going to have to pay for repairs and how quickly can it be turned around. I charge a flat $150 for all repairs and re-warranty the radio for 2 years. Ask Garmin or ICom what their minimum repair charges are.

Serial data

N941WR said:

The iCom has the advantage of having serial inputs, which allow you to wire the EFIS of your choice right into to the audio system.

Click to expand...

I'm running GRT/Garmin 430W and was unable to get either unit to feed serial comm data over to the Icom A210. IIRC, in the end I believe you need a hand held GPS to do this. Aviation format would not work, or at least not for me.
I do like the radio BTW, use it over the 430.

I just bought the Flightline 760 , its about half the cost of others, and I have great reviews from others using them. Its about $700.00 , and fits in 2 1/4 cutout, has intercom,ect. Just now installing, so PIREP will be next week or so.

Keep in mind that the Flightline 760 does not have dual monitoring and no separate intercom volume/squelch so its not a valid apples-to-apples comparison based on price alone. As I understood it is a has hot-mic intercom and you have to adjust the mic gain to make it less annoying, and that will affect the modulation of the transmitted signal.

Make sure you also look into the PAR100-EX by PS Engineering, Benefit here is its a very simple radio with fantastic sound quality and also has the intercom built in. The skyview gets wired in, you have bluetooth capabilities, as well as your standard 3.5 jack input. Its a little more pricy than a standard radio but include the intercom and you save money and space.

Whatever you do, if you are only going to get one radio, get one that has a dual-watch feature. Comes in very, very handy for flight following and checking weather.

The MGL radios (V6 and V10) also support the Garmin frequency change serial protocol. The V-6 is stereo and both have the ability for an auxiliary audio input for alerts or music. Both provide a nice intercom capability. I've been very impressed with the radio quality (transmission and receive).

Perhaps one question that will narrow down you decision is if you want your radio to fit a standard avionics stack.

I currently run the V10 but it is over in the avionics stack which means it has dead space next to it. If you have a similar non-avionics sized transponder, they could go side-by-side. Otherwise, you need to consider how you lay out your panel.

Thanks for the info from all of you. I did get a pm about the PAR100-EX. I had never heard of it so I will do some more research.

As for my panel, I am still working on it. I really like the square shape radios because they fit in almost anywhere. The V6 looks pretty good. I really like the price of the Frontline 760, but I think you give up too many features for the money saved. The XCOM is very nice. Im not sure what he difference between the standard and deluxe units are other than $700. I will look into that too.

Another friend said the Dynon may have an integrated radio soon. That may make life easier all the way around.

Then there is always the new garmin. Im sure it is great and would meet all my needs. So many choices. This is as bad as trying to pick a paint scheme!

The PAR100-EX uses a headless Microair radio and I know that they have had problems with it.

would one need an audio panel to run two radios?
curious.
i have an icom, which I love, but would really like another radio.

fixnflyguy said:

I just bought the Flightline 760 , its about half the cost of others, and I have great reviews from others using them. Its about $700.00 , and fits in 2 1/4 cutout, has intercom,ect. Just now installing, so PIREP will be next week or so.

Click to expand...

audio panel? Not necessarily.
With fewer and fewer things to listen to (VOR? MB? ADF?) what most people need now is an intercom or mixer with multiple unswitched inputs.
Switching between radios can then just be a simple switch to swap mike and PTT inputs.
If you have nothing to listen to except two radios you can do it all with switches, if you never want to listen to both at the same time.

I would suggest you talk to Stein and THEN decide.

V10

I picked the v10 from mgl with built in intercom, Love it, wouldnt change a thing.
With a set of halos, its as good as anyone could want. Price, weight etc...great. Hooked up to dynon skyview, I get the alerts etc.

Rick, do you have some pictures of your panel and behind your panel online or you could email me? I really like the layout. What is that below your tablet? CD player? I like the modular panel you used. I am trying to figure out what I need to do to modify the support ribs. That is something I think Vans could look into. Not many builders are using the steam gages - the only thing that fits with the existing ribs design. They could offer an option for a glass panel support. Several after market people do, so people are buying!

It must be amazing to be flying a plane you built. What a great time. I am sure you are enjoying every minute of it.

Thanks for the info and pics.

PAR100EX

rocketbob said:

The PAR100-EX uses a headless Microair radio and I know that they have had problems with it.

Click to expand...

Dear Bob,

We have been shipping the PAR100EX since March of 2011 and have had ZERO failures of this system. While it is a Microair Radio, it is a new generation of their old radios. PS Engineering is the holder of the FCC Certification and I can tell you it is doing an excellent job for us.

Can you please tell me if you were talking specifically about our remote radio, or with past experience Microair that have no bearing on our radio.

Thanks for the clarification, and I would appreciate any owner of our PAR100EX could give your expereinces with our System, especially with our remote radio, I would really appreciate it.

Sorry that I'm jumping on you Bob but your statement would lead anyone to believe that you were speaking specifically about the radio we are using. And if you did specifically mean that PS Engineering are having problems with the radio, I would appreciate knowing all of the details.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc

2 XCOMs

I have 2 XCOMs in my 10 and these are excellent radios.
Super clear reception and excellent transmission. I don't need the intercom features so can't tell you about that.
One of these radios failed 40 hours after installation and was promptly replaced by Rocketbob who is the service and repair rep as he stated earlier.
Although a failure that early seems to indicate some sort of manufacturing flaw, I am not worried about the quality of these little gems.
Just to be fair, I had a Garmin handheld go black at 250 hours of use and it was serviced for $250.- I like the Garmin products too but the XCOM is hard to beat.

I can get you pics of anything you wish. Happy to help. My transponder (garmin gtx327) is under ipad. Ipad is on ram swivel mount so i can add another skyview and spin ipad sideways if needed and/or add something else on the main panel empty spot. The panel was a carbon fiber one that a builder on vaf made a few of and sold a few blanks for years back, really like it. Moving the ribs for panel spacing is very easy lots of info on here about it. Thats a one hour job max.

PM me anything specific and will get if for you tomorrow. cheers, r

tim2542 said:

I'm running GRT/Garmin 430W and was unable to get either unit to feed serial comm data over to the Icom A210. IIRC, in the end I believe you need a hand held GPS to do this. Aviation format would not work, or at least not for me.
I do like the radio BTW, use it over the 430.

Click to expand...

Icom a210 originally used a funny procedure that had you dump data for GPS com frequencies to memory, then add them to the standby channel. It was very awkward and had too many steps. When I had mine repaired by Icom, they updated firmware, and now it works like a champ. Highlight frequency in gps, hit enter, and it goes right to the standby channel. You might check the firmware level on your icom.

rockwoodrv9 said:

I have narrowed my EFIS to either the GRT HRx or the Skyview - at least those are the ones I cut out pictures of and taped them to my blank panel! Any thoughts on a COMM or EFIS would be appreciated.

Thanks for the help. There are so many choices and Im sure all of them are good radios. The same with the EFIS. It is amazing what is available for us as experimental builders.

Click to expand...

I'll jump on here since no one has talked about your EFIS choices.

I'm now flying behind the GRT HXr 10.4 inch screen and can give it an A Plus rating. Support and service is outstanding. Ive been flying their EIS with a Sport SX for several years now.The amount of information displayed on all the new generation EFIS's is astounding.

Installation and setup is very straight forward. If I can do it and not let the smoke out its easy.

I have nothing at all bad to say about Dynon, but I really like my GRT equipment.

tim2542 said:

I'm running GRT/Garmin 430W and was unable to get either unit to feed serial comm data over to the Icom A210. IIRC, in the end I believe you need a hand held GPS to do this. Aviation format would not work, or at least not for me.
I do like the radio BTW, use it over the 430.

Click to expand...

JSOliveira said:

Icom a210 originally used a funny procedure that had you dump data for GPS com frequencies to memory, then add them to the standby channel. It was very awkward and had too many steps. When I had mine repaired by Icom, they updated firmware, and now it works like a champ. Highlight frequency in gps, hit enter, and it goes right to the standby channel. You might check the firmware level on your icom.

Click to expand...

The 430W does not transfer radio frequencies. I think the old GX series panel mounts could do this, the Garmin portables can when set to output VHF data as well as the G3X. The new GTN series does not as well.

moll780 said:

would one need an audio panel to run two radios?
curious.
i have an icom, which I love, but would really like another radio.

Click to expand...

I researched this at length and finally settled on 2 Icom A-200's (that I already had) and a PM-1000 (that I already had) and a dpdt switch (that I already had) to switch the mic hi and ptt lines, and then just use the volume of the two radios to decide which I listen to or can listen to both, and use the switch to choose which one I talk on. On the bench it worked great. Should be getting it in the -9A this week for actual testing with antennas and such. It's a very simple way to do 2 radios without an audio panel.

On the A210, I have only installed 1 of these and swore I wouldn't do another. It just really bugs me that you have to remove the face plate to get at the scren that removes the radio from the rack. The quality of the radio is fine, though.

Most of my experience is with 430 radios and SL-40/30's, all of which are great radios. I really like the SL's, because of the option to monitor the standby frequency, although any transmission on the main frequency mutes the standby, so if you are on a busy ATC freq, you can't really listed to an ATIS effectively.

I did a demo of the 3D radio from Garmin at Sun-N-Fun last year and was thoroughly impressed. It is amazing how you can selectively hear from one ear or the other, which makes two frequencies much easier to handle without changing volumes.

On the EFIS question, I have only limited experience with the GRT's and none with their newer advanced systems, but know from experience that what people go with, they promote, unless it was a Blue Mountain. I will say, however, that if you are new to wiring, you will have less trouble with the Dynon as there are fewer options for sensors and each has more of a dedicated pin, while the GRT has many more options, which are much more complicated. This is especially the case with engine monitoring. There are trade-off's, and benefits to both. I am just about to upgrade my -10 from Dynon legacy to Skyview, and I am installing 2 GRT non-sv screens into my -9A, so I have nothing against either. I have also installed a fair number of AFS screens and am very impressed with them as well. What you go with, you will most likely stand behind, if for no other reason than that you want to convince yourself that you made the right choice.

Brantel said:

The 430W does not transfer radio frequencies. I think the old GX series panel mounts could do this, the Garmin portables can when set to output VHF data as well as the G3X. The new GTN series does not as well.

Click to expand...

Yeah now I recall, I figured that out(430) also, but later was trying to get the GRT to ship it over. That didn't work out either. It's not worth pursuing anyway. The 430 does the same thing internally if I need it.
Thanks.